2018 Roster Discussion

[Sabo]

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/01...-harrison-expected-to-join-stoke-this-winter/

Seems like more than just rumors regarding Harrison. Would be thrilled for him, but sad for us -- he's been such a joy to watch.

What are the salary cap implications of selling a player for $5 million?

The 2017 Rule provisions are below but I assume they have new Rules for 2018 we don't know about yet. Jack's acquisition was a great move by the FO whether or not he moves to the PL in 2018.

• A club shall receive the transfer or loan fee revenue (including agent fees and other expenses) from any transaction involving a Generation adidas Player or player acquired via the MLS SuperDraft based on the number of MLS service years:
  MLS Service Years Transfer/Loan Fee Revenue to Club
  1 1/3
  2 1/2
  3+ 2/3
  All remaining portions of the transfer or loan revenue fees are retained by the league.

Usage of Revenue
The club's share of transfer or loan fee revenue may only be used as follows:

• The club may assign up to $650,000 of the transfer/loan revenue as General Allocation Money. (In the case of Designated Players, such assignment of Allocation Money can only take place after the club has received 100% of their out-of-pocket investment)
• The remaining balance of the club's share (if any), and which cannot be traded, will be available to be used by clubs in the following ways:
  • Against the expenses incurred by the club in relation to the costs of an existing or new Designated Player
  • With league approval, clubs can use the revenue against an expense that would (i) would not otherwise have been incurred by the club; and (ii) reasonably represents an investment in the league or club (e.g., youth development and training facilities).

 

[ZYanksRule]

The 2017 Rule provisions are below but I assume they have new Rules for 2018 we don't know about yet. Jack's acquisition was a great move by the FO whether or not he moves to the PL in 2018.

• A club shall receive the transfer or loan fee revenue (including agent fees and other expenses) from any transaction involving a Generation adidas Player or player acquired via the MLS SuperDraft based on the number of MLS service years:
  MLS Service Years Transfer/Loan Fee Revenue to Club
  1 1/3
  2 1/2
  3+ 2/3
  All remaining portions of the transfer or loan revenue fees are retained by the league.

Usage of Revenue
The club's share of transfer or loan fee revenue may only be used as follows:

• The club may assign up to $650,000 of the transfer/loan revenue as General Allocation Money. (In the case of Designated Players, such assignment of Allocation Money can only take place after the club has received 100% of their out-of-pocket investment)
• The remaining balance of the club's share (if any), and which cannot be traded, will be available to be used by clubs in the following ways:
  • Against the expenses incurred by the club in relation to the costs of an existing or new Designated Player
  • With league approval, clubs can use the revenue against an expense that would (i) would not otherwise have been incurred by the club; and (ii) reasonably represents an investment in the league or club (e.g., youth development and training facilities).

OK now here's my next question: Technically he's not GA anymore, and technically we didn't acquire him in the draft, we traded for him from Chicago. Does that change anything?

(And thanks to everyone for the answers)

 

[Sabo]

OK now here's my next question: Technically he's not GA anymore, and technically we didn't acquire him in the draft, we traded for him from Chicago. Does that change anything?

(And thanks to everyone for the answers)

Sounds like a very interesting conversation between NYCFC and MLS to me.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Usage of Revenue
The club's share of transfer or loan fee revenue may only be used as follows:

• The club may assign up to $650,000 of the transfer/loan revenue as General Allocation Money. (In the case of Designated Players, such assignment of Allocation Money can only take place after the club has received 100% of their out-of-pocket investment)
• The remaining balance of the club's share (if any), and which cannot be traded, will be available to be used by clubs in the following ways:
  • Against the expenses incurred by the club in relation to the costs of an existing or new Designated Player
  • With league approval, clubs can use the revenue against an expense that would (i) would not otherwise have been incurred by the club; and (ii) reasonably represents an investment in the league or club (e.g., youth development and training facilities).

This is interesting and gets me wondering about the potential below scenario. Note, that I'm guessing MLS will not allow this but let me go ahead and pose this hypothetical looking at what is laid out above.

Say we sell Jack next year and receive (for ease of math purposes) $6m. That nets us $4m, $650k of which is GAM. We use that GAM in whatever manner we wish.

Now, the rule says the remaining balance can be used in relation to the costs of an existing or new DP. We still have Maxi Moralez on our team, can we use that remaining balance to buy part of his contract, lowering his total remaining salary that would be spread out over remaining years to bring him under the DP-threshold?

 

[dummyrun]

OK now here's my next question: Technically he's not GA anymore, and technically we didn't acquire him in the draft, we traded for him from Chicago. Does that change anything?

(And thanks to everyone for the answers)

Great question. The passive construction of "player acquired via the MLS SuperDraft" is really unhelpful here, although I'd be inclined to read that to mean NYCFC should get 2/3. How the SuperDraft rule applies will depend on the purpose of the service year discount structure, which isn't obvious to me—anybody have a good argument for why draftees get special transfer-fee treatment?

(Of course we could just look to see what happened with other players who were drafted, traded, and transferred out of MLS all within two years, but that's got to be a rare case.)

 

[LionNYC]

Sounds like a very interesting conversation between NYCFC and MLS to me.

Maybe since MLS fucked us after talking to USSF to talk to CONCACAF about our 2019 CCL qualification, maybe they'll let us get away with more GAM.

 

[ZYanksRule]

https://twitter.com/x/status/954841192293789697

Reading between the lines ("nothing official ... still a New York City player"), Harrison basically confirms Stoke is after him, and it certainly sounds like the interest is mutual.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Maybe since MLS fucked us after talking to USSF to talk to CONCACAF about our 2019 CCL qualification, maybe they'll let us get away with more GAM.

Am I the only one failing to see how MLS fucked us?

Doesn't the timeline go as follows?

• MLS and US Soccer makes rules that it will be aggregate two year's points
  • (Most everyone here accepts this and knows this is the case going forward)
• CONCACAF tweets out saying NYCFC qualifies due to one year's points (does not agree with MLS-established rule
• MLS and US Soccer clarifies rule that was established and it is aggregate two year's points.
  • (Everyone loses their shit that rule originally established is abided by)

Am I missing something?

 

[LionNYC]

Am I the only one failing to see how MLS fucked us?

Doesn't the timeline go as follows?

• MLS and US Soccer makes rules that it will be aggregate two year's points
  • (Most everyone here accepts this and knows this is the case going forward)
• CONCACAF tweets out saying NYCFC qualifies due to one year's points (does not agree with MLS-established rule
• MLS and US Soccer clarifies rule that was established and it is aggregate two year's points.
  • (Everyone loses their shit that rule originally established is abided by)

Am I missing something?

We did a poll and based on a majority of user's reading of the language from CONCACAF, it read as if we qualified.

And just to think of it simply, Toronto won MLS Cup based on one year of work, thus the American team with the highest points in one year should qualify.

If an American team won two MLS Cup or USOCs, that is based on two years of work, thus the American team with the highest points aggregated from two season should qualify.

But, it's all moot and we'll have to track two tables this season. The 2018 one and the combined 2017 and 2018 one.

 

[SoupInNYC]

We did a poll and based on a majority of user's reading of the language from CONCACAF, it read as if we qualified.

Well, yeah. Because the language from CONCACAF that came out in December said we qualified in the actual text.

The language that came out in September from MLS/USSF said that the rules were completely different. Well before CONCACAF said their own thing, everyone here knew it was the aggregate points over two seasons.

I just don't see what we're upset about except that CONCACAF got confused.

 

[Seven]

Yeah, we'd only get 1/2 of the transfer fee this year compared to 2/3 next year. But half of the reported $4.5m fee would give us $650k GAM that could buy down Medina this season and leave $1.6m applicable toward a new DP.

As for Harrison's place in the Stoke squad, he'd compete for a backup spot with Berahino and Ngoy. It'd be an ambitious move for him but I'm sure he'd jump at the chance.

Another concern is has the FO been planing for a Harrison departure this window? The GAM does us no good if we don't use it, or if we use it on a last second, panic purchase.

 

[LionNYC]

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/01...-harrison-expected-to-join-stoke-this-winter/

I am seriously never buying a jersey with a player's name and number on the back anymore.

Mix...Gone
Poku...Gone
Johansen...Gone
Harrison...Probably leaving

That just leaves me with Villa, Matarrita, and Chanot.

 

[LionNYC]

Another concern is has the FO been planing for a Harrison departure this window? The GAM does us no good if we don't use it, or if we use it on a last second, panic purchase.

Or maybe just it to trade for those international roster spots we need. $75K GAM each for 3, leaves us with $425K which is plenty to be creative and sign someone else while avoiding going over the cap.

We've seen Medina on the RW in highlights. He would fill in there. Tinnerholm at RB. And everything else stays the same. The other new signings fight for spots, or maybe a formation change if Vieira think it's merited.

NYCFC Front Office is finally playing 4D chess.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Rumors going around that Stoke is after Jack Harrison. With all the depth we brought in at winger I'd say the club prepared for selling him this window. I wouldn't mind it either, he's English so we'd get a good price for him. We could put all that GAM to good use.

This is exactly right. When I saw us sign two left footed wingers when we already have two others on the roster, I figured they were getting ready for one of them to leave.

 

[dummyrun]

Another concern is has the FO been planing for a Harrison departure this window? The GAM does us no good if we don't use it, or if we use it on a last second, panic purchase.

An eventual Harrison transfer has been on everybody's radar since day one, and the winger signings are a pretty good sign we've been preparing for the possibility in this window. But you're right that we need a good plan for how to maximize the value of that GAM.

 

[canchon]

If he really is going, NYCFC better get the “English overvalued” price since he is being sold to a PL team. $10 million at least.

 

[Ulrich]

Am i the only one that thinks a move to Stoke is a bad idea? I have not problem with him leaving, but Stoke is not a club with a winner mentality, and they’re poised to drop to the championship if one of the shitty three beneath them go on a minor pt accumulation streak. I’m not advocating holding out for one of the big 4-6 teams where he’d be on the outside of the gameday roster looking in, but there has to be a mid-table team that’s interested and where he isn’t going to get half a season in the EPL before becoming a permanent Championship player....

 

[Christopher Jee]

Am i the only one that thinks a move to Stoke is a bad idea? I have not problem with him leaving, but Stoke is not a club with a winner mentality, and they’re poised to drop to the championship if one of the shitty three beneath them go on a minor pt accumulation streak. I’m not advocating holding out for one of the big 4-6 teams where he’d be on the outside of the gameday roster looking in, but there has to be a mid-table team that’s interested and where he isn’t going to get half a season in the EPL before becoming a permanent Championship player....

He'll probably still make more.

 

[gbservis]

Am i the only one that thinks a move to Stoke is a bad idea? I have not problem with him leaving, but Stoke is not a club with a winner mentality, and they’re poised to drop to the championship if one of the shitty three beneath them go on a minor pt accumulation streak. I’m not advocating holding out for one of the big 4-6 teams where he’d be on the outside of the gameday roster looking in, but there has to be a mid-table team that’s interested and where he isn’t going to get half a season in the EPL before becoming a permanent Championship player....

I agree, it's possible I'm just making excuses because I'm sad to see him go but the kid has real talent and it feels like he could do better. Add in the fact that he's yet to put together a full MLS season between the injuries year 1 and falling off a cliff in production year 2. He really could use one more year in the MLS surrounded by a roster of teammates that just got a serious upgrade that should allow him to string together an amazing season resulting in a considerably better offer than Stoke.

 

[Kjbert]

1) The way I read the rules, we could use his acquisition fee to cover the cost of the Medina transfer. We could then pay down Medina's contract with TAM (bad idea though since he only is on the cap for $150k)

2) Does anyone feel confident that Jonathan Lewis/Ismael Toujari equal Jack Harrison production? I don't.

3) Assuming 1 and 2 are true, Jo IngeBerget needs to produce immediately.