Andrea Pirlo [Midfielder]

Midas Mulligan · May 6, 2017

Seth said:
Here's the thing. Everything you said is true, but I think you're not looking in the same direction I am. The problem with getting the great players to come here is not whether they can get the money their looking for in their time on an MLS team. The real problem is that most of the *other* players on their team are only getting paid $60,000 or so.

that's not even close to true.

Further, even if it were, if you're making only $60k, it's probably a good indicator you should give it up if you're over 23/24 (at which age that's still a decent to good wage relative to real world)

Even Jeb Brovsky made $70k his first year in the league when his stated salary was like $36k.

As a final point, why do folks propagate this misinformation? MLS pay is fine. What we're really talking about is paying shit roster-filler players, and I don't care about that nor see it as an issue. More money is conitunually being spent on deserving talents, so much so that MLS is one of the better paying leagues in the world.

Seth · May 6, 2017

Midas Mulligan said:
that's not even close to true.

Further, even if it were, if you're making only $60k, it's probably a good indicator you should give it up if you're over 23/24 (at which age that's still a decent to good wage relative to real world)

Even Jeb Brovsky made $70k his first year in the league when his stated salary was like $36k.

As a final point, why do folks propagate this misinformation? MLS pay is fine. What we're really talking about is paying shit roster-filler players, and I don't care about that nor see it as an issue. More money is conitunually being spent on deserving talents, so much so that MLS is one of the better paying leagues in the world.

OK, slight underestimate, sure. I just checked and 13 out of 25 on our roster are $115,000 or under, not counting the three DPs. My point still stands though, the mean salary is around $110,000 per year. That's a *weekly* Man City salary. And nine of our players are making under $75,000 a year.

I fully admit that I haven't analyzed world salaries. Might be interesting to compare ours to Hull or Sunderland, say, rather than Man City, or perhaps to a lower league club. Still doesn't matter though. Even "mediocre" EPL players make in a week what our good players make in a year. It's hard to see how you can say that doesn't matter. Will look into lower league salaries at some point just for reference though. Just for fun.

Randomly selected source: http://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/25/nycfc-player-salaries-2017/

Midas Mulligan · May 6, 2017

Seth said:
OK, slight underestimate, sure. I just checked and 13 out of 25 on our roster are $115,000 or under, not counting the three DPs. My point still stands though, the mean salary is around $110,000 per year. That's a *weekly* Man City salary. And nine of our players are making under $75,000 a year.

I fully admit that I haven't analyzed world salaries. Might be interesting to compare ours to Hull or Sunderland, say, rather than Man City, or perhaps to a lower league club. Still doesn't matter though. Even "mediocre" EPL players make in a week what our good players make in a year. It's hard to see how you can say that doesn't matter. Will look into lower league salaries at some point just for reference though. Just for fun.

Randomly selected source: http://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/25/nycfc-player-salaries-2017/

Make sure to calculate when the checks are actually cut and whether or not they cash.

BxLio91 · May 6, 2017

A lot of our "good" usually american players typically aren't as good as mediocre PL players. While salaries ARE inflated in England, that doesn't mean we should be paying TMac 800K.

Seth · May 6, 2017

BxLio91 said:
A lot of our "good" usually american players typically aren't as good as mediocre PL players. While salaries ARE inflated in England, that doesn't mean we should be paying TMac 800K.

Completely agree. And we've sort of come the long way 'round but that's kind of exactly what I've been saying, that MLS just isn't quite as good as some of the other leagues, and won't be until we're willing to pay people enough to attract more good players (or work at developing our own). Which brings us back around to the salary cap making everything suck, which brings us back around to cheap owners and the league being run as a single entity with guaranteed parity for all. You just can't have cheap and parity and quality all in one league.

I'm sorry. I'll be fine in three weeks when the Premier League season is over and watching the two leagues on the same day won't be possible for three months.

JayH · May 19, 2017

This is a solid assessment.

http://www.hudsonriverblue.com/2017/5/19/15662006/nycfc-andrea-pirlo-future-new-york-city

Gotham Gator · May 19, 2017

JayH said:
This is a solid assessment.

http://www.hudsonriverblue.com/2017/5/19/15662006/nycfc-andrea-pirlo-future-new-york-city

Can't disagree entirely, although I do believe that its a little unfair to use a lack of assists to criticize his play. For a deep lying playmaker, the impact on a game is often 2-3 passes (or more) before the goal is scored. Absent times when he is asked to play a bit more forward (as was the case last year), he shouldn't be racking up as many assists as guys who play in front of him.

Oh, and happy birthday Andrea Pirlo.

LionNYC · May 19, 2017

JayH said:
This is a solid assessment.

http://www.hudsonriverblue.com/2017/5/19/15662006/nycfc-andrea-pirlo-future-new-york-city

Well written piece and generally well argued case against Pirlo. And I wholehearted agree. Think, even in his prime would Pep have Pirlo in his Man City squad with their style of play. My thought is no.

The $3-4M we have left to Pirlo when the second transfer window opens is enough reasons to stick it out despite the criticism but he/we can find a good reason to close the curtain on his career early, that would be best for all individuals.

Frank Lampard has been a better DP than Pirlo.

Fantazma · May 19, 2017

LionNYC said:
Well written piece and generally well argued case against Pirlo. And I wholehearted agree. Think, even in his prime would Pep have Pirlo in his Man City squad with their style of play. My thought is no.

The $3-4M we have left to Pirlo when the second transfer window opens is enough reasons to stick it out despite the criticism but he/we can find a good reason to close the curtain on his career early, that would be best for all individuals.

Frank Lampard has been a better DP than Pirlo.

well according to his book pep wanted him back when he was still in barcelona

hes not going anywhere and the PR would be bad and less people would go to games. this will be an issue next year when we only have villa as start name. still, i dont want another aging star that will not be as quick or dynamic as PV wants him to be.

as for assists i mean there are times where he delivers an amazing ball ( think Tmac vs RSL) but the other player cant finish it so then it looks like he is ineffective based on numbers but sometimes is just that the team isint helping him

still i dont think he should be starting but still an option off the bench.

mgarbowski · May 19, 2017

Gotham Gator said:
Can't disagree entirely, although I do believe that its a little unfair to use a lack of assists to criticize his play. For a deep lying playmaker, the impact on a game is often 2-3 passes (or more) before the goal is scored. Absent times when he is asked to play a bit more forward (as was the case last year), he shouldn't be racking up as many assists as guys who play in front of him.

It is true that his assists per minute ratio has never been high. But he's running at 77% of his pre-NYCFC pace while he's here.
And goals? Even uglier.
He's scoring goals at 17% of the pace he used to manage before here. Pathetic.

LionNYC said:
Frank Lampard has been a better DP than Pirlo.

True. But I also blame Frank and Ferran Soriano for us getting Pirlo, which was clearly an attempt to overcome the bad publicity foisted on us over that whole fiasco. Pirlo never made sense for our team from day 1 except as a name.

As pleased as I am with Kreis gone and PV in, Kreis was fucked over twice when they took Lampard away from him after he built the entire roster, and then when they forced Pirlo on him who Kreis never wanted. Even with both Kreis and Lampard gone (and good riddance to both) we're still dealing with the consequences of all that.

Fuck Man City.

LionNYC · May 19, 2017

Fantazma said:
well according to his book pep wanted him back when he was still in barcelona

hes not going anywhere and the PR would be bad and less people would go to games. this will be an issue next year when we only have villa as start name. still, i dont want another aging star that will not be as quick or dynamic as PV wants him to be.

as for assists i mean there are times where he delivers an amazing ball ( think Tmac vs RSL) but the other player cant finish it so then it looks like he is ineffective based on numbers but sometimes is just that the team isint helping him

still i dont think he should be starting but still an option off the bench.

I'd rather win games with a new DP than have more people in the stadium.

Fantazma · May 19, 2017

LionNYC said:
I'd rather win games with a new DP than have more people in the stadium.

i do too......but FO is gonna shit their pants if we go under 20K again

mgarbowski · May 19, 2017

Fantazma said:
i do too......but FO is gonna shit their pants if we go under 20K again

I don't see how Pirlo makes a difference to home attendance at this point. 2017 season tickets are already sold. People who want to see him on a one-off have had more than two dozen home chances to do so already. Plus he's only 50-50 to play even if we keep him so who's going to buy a ticket primarily to see Pirlo live at this point with those odds?
Make June 29 Andrea Pirlo Good-bye Night. Actually fill the stadium for a Thursday Night game against Minnesota. Ciao! Arrivederci e buona fortuna!

Fantazma · May 19, 2017

mgarbowski said:
I don't see how Pirlo makes a difference to home attendance at this point. 2017 season tickets are already sold. People who want to see him on a one-off have had more than two dozen home chances to do so already. Plus he's only 50-50 to play even if we keep him so who's going to buy a ticket primarily to see Pirlo live at this point with those odds?
Make June 29 Andrea Pirlo Good-bye Night. Actually fill the stadium for a Thursday Night game against Minnesota. Ciao! Arrivederci e buona fortuna!

i dont know how many season ticket holders we have really.....i think there were rumors that it went down from last year. but probably less casuals will come for sure and not every season ticket holder can make games. so games will look worse. it may not be much but PR wise would likely take a hit especially if we are the ones saying hey you're gone.

Ulrich · May 19, 2017

Fantazma said:
i do too......but FO is gonna shit their pants if we go under 20K again

Let them. Part of it is that the product on the field is very jeckle & Hyde because of lineup decisions. They still don't understand that what NYC fans want more than anything is the best team winning all the time regardless of how famous, or not, the players are. Win constantly and the fans will make the players fan favorites ala Ring and Harrison and Chanot. With a few more seasons each, those three could go down as the legends that all future players are measured against. If Hererra keeps playing lights out as a midfield monster that also creates goals, he's going to get a cult following as a guy that gives zero fcks and just wins. Find us another no-name South American, not one of the lucky few that went to Europe, but that can ball-out and take over a game when he's on the field and we'll revere him like a soccer god.

It's really simple, and I don't think the FO or CFG gets it.

mgarbowski · May 19, 2017

Fantazma said:
it may not be much but PR wise would likely take a hit especially if we are the ones saying hey you're gone.

In my fantasy universe Pirlo is agreeable to go but the club wants to keep him for the reasons you're citing. That would be idiotic in my view.

Ulrich · May 19, 2017

mgarbowski said:
I don't see how Pirlo makes a difference to home attendance at this point. 2017 season tickets are already sold. People who want to see him on a one-off have had more than two dozen home chances to do so already. Plus he's only 50-50 to play even if we keep him so who's going to buy a ticket primarily to see Pirlo live at this point with those odds?
Make June 29 Andrea Pirlo Good-bye Night. Actually fill the stadium for a Thursday Night game against Minnesota. Ciao! Arrivederci e buona fortuna!

Last year there were tons of foreign tourist fans in my section that had on Pirlo gear. He definitely brought in 1-off ticket sales when the weather was nice.

mgarbowski · May 19, 2017

Ulrich said:
Last year there were tons of foreign tourist fans in my section that had on Pirlo gear. He definitely brought in 1-off ticket sales when the weather was nice.

I've seen that too. But I'm not sure how much is left, although I suppose some of those people might know little enough about NYCFC that they won't realize he's not guaranteed to play. And what are we talking about anyway? 200 people a game?

Ulrich · May 19, 2017

mgarbowski said:
I've seen that too. But I'm not sure how much is left, although I suppose some of those people might know little enough about NYCFC that they won't realize he's not guaranteed to play. And what are we talking about anyway? 200 people a game?

Idk. Frankly I don't care because I still think people will come to see Villa *and* a winning team.... so the FO needs to make sure the product is set up to do that. The coaches need to win the game in front of them and stop with ridiculous experimentation of player combinations. And really, the FO needs to make an overly compelling case to Pirlo that retirement is a fantastic option.

Gotham Gator · May 19, 2017

I don't think the Club is interested in a guy like Pirlo just bringing in one-off ticket sales. Now, what can be a big positive is if some people come to see Pirlo and then enjoy the game so much they come back again and end up being long-term supporters of the team. This is a good and legitimate goal - having a guy help the long term growth of the franchise - and we should all appreciate and support this.

That said, it is unlikely that Pirlo could attract any more fans that haven't already shown up to see him play. I remember when he signed, there were rumors that the last open point was whether he'd have an option for this third year or if the contract ended after the second season. Kind of seems like a bigger deal at the moment. It would be nice if we had a different big name who could both attract new fans and be closer to his prime.

Andrea Pirlo [Midfielder]

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