I don't disagree that the expectations of these players that they can wait until they have played all their best soccer and then come after that are becoming less and less realistic with each season of improvement by the MLS. My point was only that I think MLS will progress much faster than than the European stars ideas of the league will. It may even take 1-2 public rejections by the MLS of one of these guys waits too long and then proclaims they've completed their Euro dream and are now ready to grace us with their used up skills for it really to set in. To me the truly exciting moment will be when it starts to set in to the players that want to play here for whatever reason that they have to come earlier than 33+ to accomplish that goal.
NYCFC Players Wanted Thread
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I don't disagree that the expectations of these players that they can wait until they have played all their best soccer and then come after that are becoming less and less realistic with each season of improvement by the MLS. My point was only that I think MLS will progress much faster than than the European stars ideas of the league will. It may even take 1-2 public rejections by the MLS of one of these guys waits too long and then proclaims they've completed their Euro dream and are now ready to grace us with their used up skills for it really to set in. To me the truly exciting moment will be when it starts to set in to the players that want to play here for whatever reason that they have to come earlier than 33+ to accomplish that goal.
we say all these things, and I think both of you make important, strong points that I agree with.
But then Schweiny single-handedly turns around an entire franchise...
You don't give any credit to Dax and Nikolic?
Saw the rumors yesterday about LA being interested in Chicharito and with Moyes ready to get rid of him I think he could do a job for us for a few years. I would take him over Zlatan as I doubt you get more than 20 games out of Zlatan
I recognized Schweiny as a counter-example when I wrote. I think there are a couple reasons his situation doesn't kill my thesis and I decided to leave them out until someone brought him up.
1. He signed a one-year deal. If that becomes the new norm for arriving middle aged foreign stars that's significant in itself. He and the Fire are reported to be working on a new deal for 1-year with an option for year 2. As usual, the press cannot competently state the key info of who holds the option (or just acknowledge they don't know). If it's his option the Fire is making a mistake I think the clubs I listed in my post are unlikely to make.
2. The Fire were in a position where they had to both sign better players and send a signal to disaffected fans that they were willing to spend and committed to compete after a few years of not really trying. The Schw signing did that for them. And there will always be teams like that but it will be intermittent and, again, not necessarily in the glamor cities, and by definition, not the teams that excel regularly. Further, Atlanta has since shown both clubs and fans that there is a new way to splash cash and get noticed that doesn't involve the aged.
Does David Villa count as another counter example to your thesis?
It’s really case by case, with luck being part of the deal, like any signing (young or old)
He was first signed almost 4 years ago. That's ancient history given the current rate of change in the league. This discussion started when Gotham Gator said that MLS might not want be interested in a 33-34 year old Khedira now, and almost certainly won't in 3-4 years (SK is 30 right now). Also, Villa was 32, as was Schweini. I think that's is currently on the good side of "too old." I think Gator is right and the "too old" line is at about 33-34 right now and trending lower.
Now, there will always be exceptions, which is kind of your point. It is case by case. But the point Gator raised, and we've followed up on, is that MLS clubs are less willing to spend the cash on older players because -- on the whole -- they are a bad risk and poor spend. Late career players in Europe need to catch up to what's happening here and not count on being an exception.
Correct.
What happened when Schweiny went down? They went back to mediocrity (generously).
eta: so maybe incorrect. Dax and Nikolic additions get credit for raising them to mediocrity.
Probably right that there wouldn't be much of a fee.
Would absolutely love for us to get him but it won’t happen. This coming from rumors of west ham listening to offers. Probably wouldn’t take much on a transfer fee end.
He's gone to crap. I've had the misfortune of watching West Ham a few times, and he is probably the worst forward at holding the ball up in the entirety of the PL. It's shockingly bad.
That said, I am sure he would score a ton of goals for the right MLS club.
I'd go even further to say Villa and Schweini are good examples of the types of players that are likely to have success in the MLS. Both left europe at a time when they had enough in the tank that they could have easily signed one last contract with a top flight team and had an impact. Yes, I know Schweini saw very little time for Man U but I'd blame Mou for that more than anything and he had offers from a number of good teams in Germany when he signed with the Fire. The quality of the offers a player passes up to come to the MLS are likely a better indication of what they have left to give than their age. Lampard and Gerrard both had little to no top tier options left and essentially chose MLS over, making token sub appearances for a top tier EPL team, trudging around for a bottom tier EPL team, heading to China or going to the announcers booth. To me Pirlo falls into the same bucket but I'm not touching him because I can't have another conversation with his irrational fans about how his skills never age and he could have been our best player for 15 years if we would've just set the entire team up to cater to him.
Chicharito checks a lot of MLS boxes. Mexican, UCL experience, name recognition, goal scorer, young.
It's a slam dunk for MLS. I don't know if it's a slam dunk for NYCFC, but Villa needs to be replaced at some point. Of all the names thrown out around here (Torres, Aguerro, etc.), I think Chicharito is the most realistic to step in and replace Villa.
It's a slam dunk for MLS. I don't know if it's a slam dunk for NYCFC, but Villa needs to be replaced at some point. Of all the names thrown out around here (Torres, Aguerro, etc.), I think Chicharito is the most realistic to step in and replace Villa.
I don't think that was really due to Schweiny going down.
I think I've stated this on here before, but several soccer-related opinions in Chicago that I really respect aren't all that high on Schweiny and some even prefer Mihailovic to him, FWIW.
Yeah. His skill set is being exploited. His only strength is being opportunistic. He doesn’t create, and can’t hold up play. He needs superior teammates spraying passes and creating rebounds. In those circumstances, he was a scrappy and crafty finisher. Without those circumstances or with the yips, he is useless in a top tier league.
He likely has enough talent to be decent in a step down league like MLS with the wrong team, and the opportunity to score lots of goals with the right one.
Reminder that they started their downfall after playing us at the end of July and Schweinsteiger was still healthy.
Reminder that we can't actually know if that continues for the same duration and length. We can know that they did not win nearly as much without him as with.
The Fire were slammed with injuries when they stopped playing well.
75% of their back line went out in the summer when they started to slip. When the defense got healthy, Schweinsteiger got hurt. de Leeuw tied for the team lead in assists but didn't play at all in October. Accam played the second half of the season injured and had sports hernia surgery in November.
75% of their back line went out in the summer when they started to slip. When the defense got healthy, Schweinsteiger got hurt. de Leeuw tied for the team lead in assists but didn't play at all in October. Accam played the second half of the season injured and had sports hernia surgery in November.
I'm not discounting the effect Schweinsteiger had, I just think it's crazy that you don't think the guy who scored 24 goals this year or Dax didn't also effect the Fire's turnaround
Just curious, who are these personalities?
They probably prefer Mihailovic due to his age and potential. Yes, I am a big Basti fan but even I would prefer a younger midfielder with big potential over an aging star. It also doesn't hurt having a WC & CL winner teaching your Homegrown players how to boss a midfield.
Nikolic scored 17 or 18 of his goals in the first half of the season, and aside from a hat trick in their last regular season game against shitty Philly, had 3 or 4 goals in the second half. Bit of a fall off. Having both Dax and Basti helped the team immensely, but if you look at their overall performance, first half vs. second half, there's a difference. Especially when Nikolic's performances are taken into perspective, Dax was essentially there the beginning and end of the year.
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