2018 CONCACAF Champions League

[Falastur]

Time for a new thread since the last competition is long since finished.

Just as a reminder, this competition runs Feb to May unlike previous, and it's all bracket, no group stage.

And no, we didn't qualify for this one or the 2019 competition by finishing 2nd.

 

[LionNYC]

Seattle Sounders, FC Dallas, Red Bulls, and Colorado Rapids are the teams from MLS in this competition.

The lag from qualification to competition really is screwy, FC Dallas missed the playoffs this year while Colorado was one of the worst teams in MLS.

It is nice that CONCACAF adjusted the qualification process in the future so the X year winners will compete in the X+1 year competition (i.e. 2018 MLS qualified teams play in the spring of 2019).

 

[SoupInNYC]

and Colorado Rapids are the teams from MLS in this competition.

 

[dannd23]

Seattle Sounders, FC Dallas, Red Bulls, and Colorado Rapids are the teams from MLS in this competition.

The lag from qualification to competition really is screwy, FC Dallas missed the playoffs this year while Colorado was one of the worst teams in MLS.

It is nice that CONCACAF adjusted the qualification process in the future so the X year winners will compete in the X+1 year competition (i.e. 2018 MLS qualified teams play in the spring of 2019).

You forgot Toronto.

I expect Seattle and Toronto to fare well. RB will be either really good, or lose right away. Dallas will be fine. Sure, this season was a failure, but they got talent and will get better through experience and acquisition. Colorado? Wtf.

Is this the year MLS wins one? probs not.

 

[LionNYC]

You forgot Toronto.

I expect Seattle and Toronto to fare well. RB will be either really good, or lose right away. Dallas will be fine. Sure, this season was a failure, but they got talent and will get better through experience and acquisition. Colorado? Wtf.

Is this the year MLS wins one? probs not.

I only care about the American MLS clubs when it comes to qualification. But yes, Toronto are here too.

 

[dannd23]

I only care about the American MLS clubs when it comes to qualification. But yes, Toronto are here too.

Respectfully disagree with this thought. Toronto is as MLS as any other club with many American players and a product of the American system. Plus, they are not NJRB. They will represent MLS well, unlike Colorado which is a sham.

 

[mgarbowski]

Even if Colorado were in CL this year they were terrible.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

Respectfully disagree with this thought. Toronto is as MLS as any other club with many American players and a product of the American system. Plus, they are not NJRB. They will represent MLS well, unlike Colorado which is a sham.

12/28 American players does not say many American players to me; thats 42%. To me that sounds like its a mostly foreign team depriving Americans of spots in the American first division.

Lets look at this a little more.

12/28 Americans on Toronto = 42%
6/28 Americans on Montreal = 21%
11/31 Americans on Vancouver = 35%

Looks to me like adding the Canadian teams has negatively impacted the number and availability of professional D1 spots for American players. Its only in the US where we have another nation's team's as part of our top flight sports.

Why are American soccer dollars subsidizing Canadian soccer teams and Canadian soccer development? Let the Canadian teams go to their Canadian league and play their soccer there. There is no reason why we should screw American cities out of an MLS team just so Canadian cities may have one.

If we look at transfer market we can see that MLS is just over 50% foreign player, as per transfer market rules, getting rid of the Canadian teams does wonders for that ratio.

 

[Ulrich]

12/28 American players does not say many American players to me; thats 42%. To me that sounds like its a mostly foreign team depriving Americans of spots in the American first division.

Lets look at this a little more.

12/28 Americans on Toronto = 42%
6/28 Americans on Montreal = 21%
11/31 Americans on Vancouver = 35%

Looks to me like adding the Canadian teams has negatively impacted the number and availability of professional D1 spots for American players. Its only in the US where we have another nation's team's as part of our top flight sports.

Why are American soccer dollars subsidizing Canadian soccer teams and Canadian soccer development? Let the Canadian teams go to their Canadian league and play their soccer there. There is no reason why we should screw American cities out of an MLS team just so Canadian cities may have one.

If we look at transfer market we can see that MLS is just over 50% foreign player, as per transfer market rules, getting rid of the Canadian teams does wonders for that ratio.

NYCFC is an American-based team and it only has 12 Americans on it.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

NYCFC is an American-based team and it only has 12 Americans on it.

Do you have an actual point, or is that supposed to be some kind of, you didn't think this through gotcha argument?

I am a fan of the way our team uses and abuses the rules to win.

I am NOT a fan of the fact that those rules are able to be used and abused in the manner that we do. I'd much rather the rule was written, you may only have 8 non citizens per team, on average. This whole crap where half or more of a team is comprised of non citizens is anathema to me. Half of the logic behind MLS is to give American kids guaranteed places to earn money if they choose the soccer route.

Foreign coaches and technical staff, great, the UEFA coaching standards are higher than the US. And the UEFA coaching certification courses are harder. I am pissed off that the US coaching certifications are not on the same level, and I am more pissed that those courses are not subsidized by USSF.

More and better coaches are how you fix the USMNT, even if the system of pay to play limps along. But that only works if there are places for those kids to play at the professional level.

For the next few years this current setup may be reasonable in order to keep the skill level of the league growing, but I want it tightened up as soon as possible, force coaches to play kids as the pipeline for American talent comes fully online in the next few years.

 

[Seth]

12/28 American players does not say many American players to me; thats 42%. To me that sounds like its a mostly foreign team depriving Americans of spots in the American first division.

Lets look at this a little more.

12/28 Americans on Toronto = 42%
6/28 Americans on Montreal = 21%
11/31 Americans on Vancouver = 35%

Looks to me like adding the Canadian teams has negatively impacted the number and availability of professional D1 spots for American players. Its only in the US where we have another nation's team's as part of our top flight sports.

Why are American soccer dollars subsidizing Canadian soccer teams and Canadian soccer development? Let the Canadian teams go to their Canadian league and play their soccer there. There is no reason why we should screw American cities out of an MLS team just so Canadian cities may have one.

If we look at transfer market we can see that MLS is just over 50% foreign player, as per transfer market rules, getting rid of the Canadian teams does wonders for that ratio.

That seems bizarrely jingoistic. Considering that 3 out of the 22 teams in the league are Canadian, a sizable percentage, how can you claim MLS as an “American” sport? MLS is not the American first division, and the rest of the world is not here for the benefit of our country.

 

[Fantazma]

Do you have an actual point, or is that supposed to be some kind of, you didn't think this through gotcha argument?

I am a fan of the way our team uses and abuses the rules to win.

I am NOT a fan of the fact that those rules are able to be used and abused in the manner that we do. I'd much rather the rule was written, you may only have 8 non citizens per team, on average. This whole crap where half or more of a team is comprised of non citizens is anathema to me. Half of the logic behind MLS is to give American kids guaranteed places to earn money if they choose the soccer route.

Foreign coaches and technical staff, great, the UEFA coaching standards are higher than the US. And the UEFA coaching certification courses are harder. I am pissed off that the US coaching certifications are not on the same level, and I am more pissed that those courses are not subsidized by USSF.

More and better coaches are how you fix the USMNT, even if the system of pay to play limps along. But that only works if there are places for those kids to play at the professional level.

For the next few years this current setup may be reasonable in order to keep the skill level of the league growing, but I want it tightened up as soon as possible, force coaches to play kids as the pipeline for American talent comes fully online in the next few years.

yea thats what it was...

problem with your plan is that you have college that gets in the way. unless you want the league filled with sheltons and other not so great players that have not done well or are very late bloomers. then you cannot complain when we have the likes of brovsky, mullins, RJ, jacobson, saunders, hernandez ( though i think he is technically a PR national)

sure it be nice to have a pipeline but if you look at USL alot of MLS teams are getting rid of their "2" or "B" sides....which sucks since it means there are less places for the kids to play ( assuming they dont go to college) but they rather use the $$ on other TAM/GAM or whatever the fuck they call it. also, if there is a gem out there....kid is more than likely to leave or get sold to Europe so we dont get to see him here really in MLS but NT will be ok then.

again, the MLS clubs dont HAVE to do anything for the NT, their community? sure. but not for NT. as for our team i honestly dont care where these players come from since you know a team reflects its community and this city has people from all over the freaking world.

yes some day i want a starting XI of players that are from NY area ( nyc, LI, UPstate or even other parts like CT or even NJ if needed) no matter if they were born here or not.

 

[Ulrich]

Do you have an actual point, or is that supposed to be some kind of, you didn't think this through gotcha argument?

I am a fan of the way our team uses and abuses the rules to win.

I am NOT a fan of the fact that those rules are able to be used and abused in the manner that we do. I'd much rather the rule was written, you may only have 8 non citizens per team, on average. This whole crap where half or more of a team is comprised of non citizens is anathema to me. Half of the logic behind MLS is to give American kids guaranteed places to earn money if they choose the soccer route.

Foreign coaches and technical staff, great, the UEFA coaching standards are higher than the US. And the UEFA coaching certification courses are harder. I am pissed off that the US coaching certifications are not on the same level, and I am more pissed that those courses are not subsidized by USSF.

More and better coaches are how you fix the USMNT, even if the system of pay to play limps along. But that only works if there are places for those kids to play at the professional level.

For the next few years this current setup may be reasonable in order to keep the skill level of the league growing, but I want it tightened up as soon as possible, force coaches to play kids as the pipeline for American talent comes fully online in the next few years.

My point was fairly obvious. It also elicited a very long defense. If you want to think of it as a “gotcha” comment then by all means, but don’t write novels as a way of making a point and casually leave out important data and/or facts that don’t fit your narrative.

 

[mgarbowski]

That seems bizarrely jingoistic. Considering that 3 out of the 22 teams in the league are Canadian, a sizable percentage, how can you claim MLS as an “American” sport? MLS is not the American first division, and the rest of the world is not here for the benefit of our country.

If wanting to have the top US soccer league help advance the development of soccer in America and not other countries is"bizarrely jingoistic," then we really shouldn't have international competitions between countries.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

MLS is not the American first division,

Say what?

 

[Seth]

If wanting to have the top US soccer league help advance the development of soccer in America and not other countries is"bizarrely jingoistic," then we really shouldn't have international competitions between countries.

MLS might be the top soccer league in the US but it is not a US soccer league, obviously because there are teams from another country in the league. And I have nothing at all against MLS helping the development of soccer here either. But to say they should not also help Canadian soccer because it takes away from “us” I find a bit objectionable. MLS spans two countries, not just one. It’s not “ours.”

And I have nothing against international competition either. Might be fun to have a discussion of the Olympics though. Sure, some sports require teams, but it’s always seemed a little odd to me to have purely individual sports be on a by-country basis. I mean who cares what country you’re from if you’re a pole vaulter or a distance runner? And yes, having the headlines be about medal counts at the end of each day really annoys me.

I’m all for America but the “at the expense of other countries“ bit that pushes it into jingoism I do have an issue with.

 

[Seth]

Say what?

Surely in your role as International Liaison you regularly deal with the fact that MLS is not a US-only league, no?

And my apologies for calling you Shirley.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Surely in your role as International Liaison you regularly deal with the fact that MLS is not a US-only league, no?

And my apologies for calling you Shirley.

It is 100% the American first division, sanctioned as such by FIFA and US Soccer.

Canadian teams are allowed the same way Monaco is allowed in Ligue 1. It’s via exception granted by FIFA.

ETA: Shirley

 

[SoupInNYC]

Might be fun to have a discussion of the Olympics though. Sure, some sports require teams, but it’s always seemed a little odd to me to have purely individual sports be on a by-country basis. I mean who cares what country you’re from if you’re a pole vaulter or a distance runner? And yes, having the headlines be about medal counts at the end of each day really annoys me.

Well, to be honest, because nobody would then "care" about pole vaulting or distance running unless they either know the athlete or are passionate about that particular sport. If we were to "strip" the country that those athletes were from, I'd watch probably about 10% of the Olympic games that I do now.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I mean, I just don't even see the issue here. International competition is fun, and patriotism isn't inherently bad.

MLS is always going to be inextricably tied to the USSF, at least for anyone here's lifetime. The league exists practically only as a requisite condition of the US hosting the WCF in '94.

That makes it fairly unique among leagues, as circumstances dictate that most everyone who supports an MLS club came to it via being a U.S. fan first.