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2019 Forums H2H League & Pigeon Cup

Discussion in 'Fantasy Football' started by adam, Feb 7, 2019.

?

Please only vote if you plan to play. Would you want to see 2 division pro-rel this year?

  1. Yes

    25.0%
  2. No

    75.0%
  1. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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  2. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    Pro is technically free if you use this system. If they don’t get relagated for next years buyin round they can choose demotion and next in line based on record gets promotion.

    Relegation incentivizes the big better not to fall back and have a smaller prize to play for based on his original larger wager. If they are late to the game and have to start in lower league, then the gambler in them sees they can win more on a smaller bet if they play smart. And next year they can gamble more from the start. I’ll start a poll.
     
  3. FredMertz

    FredMertz Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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  4. mgarbowski

    mgarbowski Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    So wait, if you get relegated, then next year you still have a big ante but can only win a smaller prize? Count me out. The whole game is basically random anyway except for a handful of pros who somehow actually are good at it. You're punishing people twice over for bad luck. I don't waste my money that way. It's a fucking pool. What happens when someone gets relegated and just doesn't joint the next year because he refuses to pay a big ante for lower winnings? If people are so annoyed by the inherent unfairness of late season matchups then switch to a straight points league.
     
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  5. JayH

    JayH Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    Yeah, I don't think we need to complicate things with relegation. Why don't we just gently remind folks if they start neglecting their team, if it's a pattern beyond the occasional missed deadline. Let's just keep this fun and simple.
     
  6. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    Maybe I'm not being clear. We're using terms year and season interchangeably. Let me try again. Here's what I envision. (this is without accounting for Cup winnings and payouts are just for example).


    Screen Shot 2019-02-08 at 11.28.45 AM.png

    Let's use Team 7 as an example to start. They paid $75 for the year Spring and Fall. They got relegated in the Spring by finished bottom 2 in League 1. But then they won League 2 in the fall and promoted back to League 1. Next year they would pay $75 again for the year (spring and fall) if they so choose.

    How about Team 8. They paid $75 to be in League 1, but finished dead last in Spring. Then they still didn't do well and finished 7th in League 2 in Fall. Next year they have to start in League 2 for $50 for both Spring and Fall fee.

    Team 9. They paid $50 to enter league 2. Won that in the Spring. Earned auto promotion to League 1 for Fall. Finished 2nd in League 1 and therefore a larger winnings then they would have as 2nd place in League 2. Next year they would have to pay $75 to start in League 1. If they don't want to, they can move back into League 2 for next year at $50 and we give Team 11 the opportunity to start in League 1 for $75.

    This make more sense?
     
  7. LionNYC

    LionNYC Senior Member Staff Member Elite Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    I don't think the weekly payment would be difficult. At the end of the year, each win equals a certain payout. A potential draw would split the money.
     
  8. mgarbowski

    mgarbowski Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    I think I get it. I still hate it. Assume you successfully manage to discourage all late season slackers in the first half and everyone plays to their full ability. Now you're just punishing people even more for bad luck over a half year of games. Oh, did you guess poorly the first 3 weeks of the season as to who would be good this year? Then you never recovered because your budget sucked? And then you look forward to your fresh start in the second half season? Too bad, you can't win anything worthwhile.

    Yeah, that's not exactly going to make me pay attention to my roster in late August - September so the top 4 players have better competition.
     
  9. Shwafta

    Shwafta Regular Member

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    My thoughts on this: pool of $75./person assuming 17MD for spring, we do 50*Person/17 for whoever gets the most points that week. Maybe ever allocate a first and second place pot instead.
    And then allocate the rest as a small bonus gfo winning the league
     
  10. LionNYC

    LionNYC Senior Member Staff Member Elite Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    Raise the buy in to $100?
     
  11. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    IDK, I'd argue that. First, if we use your system it's a 16 team table. We'll probably only pay out the top 4-5 teams (+ Cup winner). So if you have a rough start and find yourself in 15th-16th place, there's almost nothing to play for the rest of the way. At least in pro-rel the bottom 4 teams in league 1 are fighting to avoid that relegation spot (which is similar to the last place penalty proposed, except no money is ever taken from someone after the fact, they can only win a little less in the second half; which I feel is MUCH more fair). Furthermore, in your system we payout the top 1/3-1/4 of the league, in my system half the league gets something back each season. There's a much greater chance of winning something "worthwhile" in the pro-rel system. Both monetarily and because there would be double the League champions. League 2 champ (with auto pro), would be nothing to sneeze at. Wow, this is really becoming like MLS, arguing agains a pro-rel system!
     
  12. FredMertz

    FredMertz Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    Or we could not completely over complicate a simple thing and add a $50 fine for the last place team.
     
  13. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    We could, but then you have teams 7-14 with nothing to play for towards the end. that's over half the league. (you also get into that after the fact penalty issue, I don't really like doing to someone). In the pro-rel system, the only teams I can see with nothing to play for would be 6-8 in league 2 if they are that far behind. And the system is not even that complicated.
     
  14. dummyrun

    dummyrun Active Member Elite Donor

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    Fine quitters in Dan Bucks.
     
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  15. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    The fantasy equivalent of GAM.
     
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  16. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    I want to elaborate on the payout system. Last year we had 12 teams. This year we may have 16. Last year we paid the top 3 teams, toward the end of the season HALF the league was out of contention to make any money and had no incentive besides the Pigeon Cup to set their lineup. This year if we have 16 teams and pay out the top 4, the problem could get even worse.

    Screen Shot 2019-02-08 at 4.40.53 PM.png

    With Pro-Rel, maybe only the bottom 2-3 teams in League 2 would have nothing to play for toward the end of the season. EVERY other team would have something at stake, be it money, relegation, or promotion (or a little bit of both). It's much more engaging. It also pays out 50% of the league, vs 25%, so double the chance of winning when some people claim it's too chance dependent.

    Screen Shot 2019-02-08 at 4.44.33 PM.png
     

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