Atlanta - Postmatch - Eastern Conference Semifinals Leg 1

[JayH]

The way I saw it was very simply that we were a very tired team that was outplayed and didn't execute flawlessly enough against the best team in the league. And I pick my battles and almost never mention the officiating, but I pick this one as they significantly affected the outcome. Unfortunately that all is a recipe for a 1-0 loss at home to a great, well-coached team. The only positive is that they (i.e., Atlanta and the refs) didn't get their second goal which would have rendered next week's game completely meaningless.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Are you referring to the free kick? That was quickly reviewed. Ref prevented a quick kickoff and was on his mic. I believe the player was Callens, he was pulled back but also offside.

Nope. It was Isi I think and he was dribbling in the box. Someone coming in from RW position across the box.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Tough game to watch.

We were clearly really tired with almost the same 11 playing 3 games in a week. I was surprised we didn't go to Medina or Taty or Berget from the start.

Atlanta were one of the first teams to out muscle us in a long time. They did a great job of packing the middle and hustling us off the ball and forcing us wide. I'm sure they did their homework and know that our overlapping full back play is ineffective, and it was. Another reason I might have expected to see more of Berget / Taty / Medina is that neither of our wingers really attacked the space behind their wingback. By the time our full backs got up that far, they had successfully packed the box. There's a chance that Medina or Taty would have made more attacking runs in the seam between their wingbacks and centerbacks.

They really exposed our lack of attacking firepower in the center. As effective as they are at recovering the ball in the center, you don't exactly tremble in your boots when Ring and Herrera pick the ball up at the top of the 18.

Apart from that, I think Atlanta gambled on the ref being too chicken shit or stupid to cotton on to their persistent fouling. You have to admire their discipline. Any time we beat a player and looked remotely like generating any vertical momentum, they hauled us back. Clear yellows went unpunished. Only 3 for Atlanta in a game like that is a joke, they should have had at least 5 or 6 yellow cards, which would have helped the game open up as players would have had to choose their challenges in order to avoid getting sent off. As it was, the fouling completely ruined the run of play and made for a terrible game for neutrals. MLS has to get on top of this if they want an entertaining product. To allow that kind of gamesmanship in the Conference semi-finals is a joke. Funnily enough, I thought Villa's bike was a clear dangerous play in the box.

With all that said, I don't know if Dome really got out coached so much as we ran out of gas, don't have good enough players to execute on that game plan against a team as good as Atlanta, and fell asleep on set pieces. That plus the pathetic game management from the officials played right into Atlanta's hands. It's gonna be a tough ask but I'm hoping that with a full week of rest, there's a small chance we can squeak out a result in Atlanta.

 

[JayH]

Tough game to watch.

We were clearly really tired with almost the same 11 playing 3 games in a week. I was surprised we didn't go to Medina or Taty or Berget from the start.

Atlanta were one of the first teams to out muscle us in a long time. They did a great job of packing the middle and hustling us off the ball and forcing us wide. I'm sure they did their homework and know that our overlapping full back play is ineffective, and it was. Another reason I might have expected to see more of Berget / Taty / Medina is that neither of our wingers really attacked the space behind their wingback. By the time our full backs got up that far, they had successfully packed the box. There's a chance that Medina or Taty would have made more attacking runs in the seam between their wingbacks and centerbacks.

They really exposed our lack of attacking firepower in the center. As effective as they are at recovering the ball in the center, you don't exactly tremble in your boots when Ring and Herrera pick the ball up at the top of the 18.

Apart from that, I think Atlanta gambled on the ref being too chicken shit or stupid to cotton on to their persistent fouling. You have to admire their discipline. Any time we beat a player and looked remotely like generating any vertical momentum, they hauled us back. Clear yellows went unpunished. Only 3 for Atlanta in a game like that is a joke, they should have had at least 5 or 6 yellow cards, which would have helped the game open up as players would have had to choose their challenges in order to avoid getting sent off. As it was, the fouling completely ruined the run of play and made for a terrible game for neutrals. MLS has to get on top of this if they want an entertaining product. To allow that kind of gamesmanship in the Conference semi-finals is a joke. Funnily enough, I thought Villa's bike was a clear dangerous play in the box.

With all that said, I don't know if Dome really got out coached so much as we ran out of gas, don't have good enough players to execute on that game plan against a team as good as Atlanta, and fell asleep on set pieces. That plus the pathetic game management from the officials played right into Atlanta's hands. It's gonna be a tough ask but I'm hoping that with a full week of rest, there's a small chance we can squeak out a result in Atlanta.

Exactly how I saw it. As for Atlanta’s fouling, that was indeed their strategy - kidney punch a tired team for as long as you can get away with it. The refs permitted them to do so for 90.

 

[Sabo]

After a nights sleep I think this was a really weird ATL-NYCFC game. Playoff style with too many fouls for either team to get rhythm (except NYCFC first 25-30 minutes of 2nd half). Defense was wayyyy better than expected. Callens and (especially) Chanot were beasts but on the other end Parkhurst and the Leo Decaprio wannabe stuffed Villa and Maxi way more than I have ever seen. Atlanta has been getting the benefit of calls all season. Next game should be reffed worse than this one.

Each side missed one clear chance. Felt like the 1-0 scoreline was ATL got a lucky bounce and we didn't. Plus NYCFC defense came up huge to not allow the 2nd goal late in the game and give us a chance to advance in ATL.

Win in Atlanta and we can advance. I want to be back at YS for another playoff game in 2018.

 

[Revfugee]

Plus NYCFC defense came up huge to not allow the 2nd goal late in the game and give us a chance to advance in ATL.

Chanot deserves to be singled out. He was a beast all night, took some hard knocks, and singlehandedly shut down a 2 on 1 when that second goal looked inevitable.

 

[LIexpat]

For anyone who watched in TV, didnthey ever explain what the VAR showed that overruled their goal? Stadium shoes nothing so I am still clueless

 

[LeeNYCFC]

Was Dome ever working the refs to try to plead a case for how the game was being called? Every time I looked over he was either leaning on his ad board or retreating to the bench.

 

[JohnB]

For anyone who watched in TV, didnthey ever explain what the VAR showed that overruled their goal? Stadium shoes nothing so I am still clueless

Almiron was offside when the ball was laid off to him as he had just taken the corner, so he was coming from an offside position

 

[JayH]

Was Dome ever working the refs to try to plead a case for how the game was being called? Every time I looked over he was either leaning on his ad board or retreating to the bench.

He was doing some, probably should have done more. His assistants were doing some as well. One of the assistants ran over to the ref before the second half started and reported on Isi’s broken bone, and was all over him about it.

 

[mgarbowski]

NYCFC committed the third most fouls in MLS this year. NYC was the only playoff team in the top 8 for that statistic. Every other team that fouled anywhere near as much as us was a bad team who had less choice. We presumably did it on purpose. Conversely, NYCFC was only the 7th most disciplined team this year. This indicates to me that we got away with a fair bit of persistent fouling without Yellow Cards. Last night was turnabout. Atlanta played the way we usually play, and got away with it. In the regular season, NYCFC committed 113 more fouls than Atlanta did, but had only 1 more Yellow than Atlanta, and one more Red. We have a very cynical style of play, which counts on the ref not enforcing persistent fouls. Atlanta did that to us last night.

It's hard to find a clear authoritative explanation of the rules on bicycle kicks and dangerous play when a defender willingly moves into the range of the kick after the offensive player starts the action. Mostly there is just generic stuff to the effect that bicycle kicks are allowed as long as they're not dangerous and in the vicinity of another player.

The best I could find was this article by the SB Nation blog for FC Dallas. In a USOC game last year, Max Urruti attempted a BK and Ike Opara also tried to play the ball. Urruti kicked Opara in the head and received a second Yellow. The article doesn't have video of the play, but the basic idea is the same. Opara was away from the ball when Urruti started his move, and inserted himself into danger. Most FCD fans thought this meant it should not have been a violation by Urruti, with all the same arguments, such as "If a defender gets a free run at the ball when the attacker is starting his kick, then the right move by the rules is to ban bicycle kicks." But I think the FC Dallas blog gets it right saying "The biggest issue people had with the play was that Opara shouldn’t have tried to play the ball since he might get kicked. However, he had just as much of a right to the ball as Maxi...." In any event, in the only incident my quick research found, the ref called a similar play the same way.

 

[Gotham Gator]

NYCFC committed the third most fouls in MLS this year. NYC was the only playoff team in the top 8 for that statistic. Every other team that fouled anywhere near as much as us was a bad team who had less choice. We presumably did it on purpose. Conversely, NYCFC was only the 7th most disciplined team this year. This indicates to me that we got away with a fair bit of persistent fouling without Yellow Cards. Last night was turnabout. Atlanta played the way we usually play, and got away with it. In the regular season, NYCFC committed 113 more fouls than Atlanta did, but had only 1 more Yellow than Atlanta, and one more Red. We have a very cynical style of play, which counts on the ref not enforcing persistent fouls. Atlanta did that to us last night.

It's hard to find a clear authoritative explanation of the rules on bicycle kicks and dangerous play when a defender willingly moves into the range of the kick after the offensive player starts the action. Mostly there is just generic stuff to the effect that bicycle kicks are allowed as long as they're not dangerous and in the vicinity of another player.

The best I could find was this article by the SB Nation blog for FC Dallas. In a USOC game last year, Max Urruti attempted a BK and Ike Opara also tried to play the ball. Urruti kicked Opara in the head and received a second Yellow. The article doesn't have video of the play, but the basic idea is the same. Opara was away from the ball when Urruti started his move, and inserted himself into danger. Most FCD fans thought this meant it should not have been a violation by Urruti, with all the same arguments, such as "If a defender gets a free run at the ball when the attacker is starting his kick, then the right move by the rules is to ban bicycle kicks." But I think the FC Dallas blog gets it right saying "The biggest issue people had with the play was that Opara shouldn’t have tried to play the ball since he might get kicked. However, he had just as much of a right to the ball as Maxi...." In any event, in the only incident my quick research found, the ref called a similar play the same way.

This is good stuff.

For me, the call on the Villa kick comes down to 2 things. First, he was directly beneath the ball and starting his action when Martinez moved in from a few yards away. Second, Martinez did not, in fact, attempt to play the ball, but instead clattered into Villa. He was just trying to disrupt the kick. More of a penalty than anything else for me.

 

[Ulrich]

NYCFC committed the third most fouls in MLS this year. NYC was the only playoff team in the top 8 for that statistic. Every other team that fouled anywhere near as much as us was a bad team who had less choice. We presumably did it on purpose. Conversely, NYCFC was only the 7th most disciplined team this year. This indicates to me that we got away with a fair bit of persistent fouling without Yellow Cards. Last night was turnabout. Atlanta played the way we usually play, and got away with it. In the regular season, NYCFC committed 113 more fouls than Atlanta did, but had only 1 more Yellow than Atlanta, and one more Red. We have a very cynical style of play, which counts on the ref not enforcing persistent fouls. Atlanta did that to us last night.

It's hard to find a clear authoritative explanation of the rules on bicycle kicks and dangerous play when a defender willingly moves into the range of the kick after the offensive player starts the action. Mostly there is just generic stuff to the effect that bicycle kicks are allowed as long as they're not dangerous and in the vicinity of another player.

The best I could find was this article by the SB Nation blog for FC Dallas. In a USOC game last year, Max Urruti attempted a BK and Ike Opara also tried to play the ball. Urruti kicked Opara in the head and received a second Yellow. The article doesn't have video of the play, but the basic idea is the same. Opara was away from the ball when Urruti started his move, and inserted himself into danger. Most FCD fans thought this meant it should not have been a violation by Urruti, with all the same arguments, such as "If a defender gets a free run at the ball when the attacker is starting his kick, then the right move by the rules is to ban bicycle kicks." But I think the FC Dallas blog gets it right saying "The biggest issue people had with the play was that Opara shouldn’t have tried to play the ball since he might get kicked. However, he had just as much of a right to the ball as Maxi...." In any event, in the only incident my quick research found, the ref called a similar play the same way.

I wouldn’t have an issue with the ref making that call against Villa if Martinez didn’t recklessly jump into him, leading with a hip, with no true intent to play the ball. His intent was completely to ruin Villa’s timing, and the result was crashing into him and landing on his back. He also was invading the space occupied by Villa, not challenging for the ball where two players are converging on unclaimed territory.

By calling the foul on Villa, the ref sets a precedent that all a defender has to do is move in the direction of the ball and make contact with the attacker attempting a bicycle kick - that’s not in the spirit of dangerous play as the defender also has to be cognizant of how his actions affect the play.

 

[Marito]

One last thing about Berget: he runs the channels beautifully but because of the size of the pitch (and also his not-stellar ball control) Yankee Stadium is not the right place to do that. Especially at the time when he was subbed in, when ATL was already bunkering. The way they tried to use him was as a physical 9 who can play with his back to goal, either deflect the pass further into the 18 with his head or control with chest and pass. But he is shit at that. He cannot out-muscle a grandma even if the beard and the 6'2" frame suggest otherwise. He didn't win one contested ball against the CBs with his back to the goal in 25 minutes. If he were a physical, bullying kind of 9 (I'm Peruvian so I'm gonna say a younger Paolo Guerrero, who has the scowl and the build of an MMA guy) the normal course of action for a desperate team would be to float long balls to him. Berget is good at peeling off from the CB shoulder and running into space, but that's not our game at YS, and much less last night.

 

[canchon]

Chanot deserves to be singled out. He was a beast all night, took some hard knocks, and singlehandedly shut down a 2 on 1 when that second goal looked inevitable.

Chanot also got the contractually obligated hit in the head at the 80+ minute mark.

Jokes aside, Chanot was so massive. Huge aerial presence and cut out two chances that were sure goals - that 2 on 1 and the one in the first half where he cut out a pass that if it gets by him is basically a tap in for Martinez. Class.

 

[Ulrich]

One last thing about Berget: he runs the channels beautifully but because of the size of the pitch (and also his not-stellar ball control) Yankee Stadium is not the right place to do that. Especially at the time when he was subbed in, when ATL was already bunkering. The way they tried to use him was as a physical 9 who can play with his back to goal, either deflect the pass further into the 18 with his head or control with chest and pass. But he is shit at that. He cannot out-muscle a grandma even if the beard and the 6'2" frame suggest otherwise. He didn't win one contested ball against the CBs with his back to the goal in 25 minutes. If he were a physical, bullying kind of 9 (I'm Peruvian so I'm gonna say a younger Paolo Guerrero, who has the scowl and the build of an MMA guy) the normal course of action for a desperate team would be to float long balls to him. Berget is good at peeling off from the CB shoulder and running into space, but that's not our game at YS, and much less last night.

IDK.... Maxi was doing just that on Wednesday night. All of Maxi’s runs were through the channels.

 

[Christopher Jee]

In the post match press conference, Dome pointed to positional sloppiness in the first half. He said Mata, Maxi, Ismael and David were playing with their back to the goal and that we could not play like this. They instead were told to play between the lines.

Any idea what he meant? It sounds like he wanted Maxi, Isma and Mata to drop a bit between the line of Yangel and Ring and the line of Villa but I'm not sure.

 

[canchon]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059464737283604481

Great stuff as usual from dummyrun

 

[Ulrich]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059464737283604481

Great stuff as usual from dummyrun

Hard to do stuff when starved for service.

 

[Christopher Jee]

One last thing about Berget: he runs the channels beautifully but because of the size of the pitch (and also his not-stellar ball control) Yankee Stadium is not the right place to do that. Especially at the time when he was subbed in, when ATL was already bunkering. The way they tried to use him was as a physical 9 who can play with his back to goal, either deflect the pass further into the 18 with his head or control with chest and pass. But he is shit at that. He cannot out-muscle a grandma even if the beard and the 6'2" frame suggest otherwise. He didn't win one contested ball against the CBs with his back to the goal in 25 minutes. If he were a physical, bullying kind of 9 (I'm Peruvian so I'm gonna say a younger Paolo Guerrero, who has the scowl and the build of an MMA guy) the normal course of action for a desperate team would be to float long balls to him. Berget is good at peeling off from the CB shoulder and running into space, but that's not our game at YS, and much less last night.

Hard to do stuff when starved for service.

Maxi was doing that when the other team was pushed up and trying to put pressure on our goal. Berget was doing it when Atlanta were more bunkered, playing deeper. So there was less space behind the lines.

It's also a matter of timing. The one or two times I saw Berget doing it, he made his run after the player had taken a touch or two and looking for a shorter pass. It's a miniscule thing, but he needs to be starting that run when a player is still deciding what to do.

Anyway, I don't think that's why he was there. He was supposed to be another body in the center for crosses from overlapping full backs, as well as a back-to-goal outlet, which I think we have all observed that he is terrible at.