Away - 05/21 Orlando

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I don't see the connection.

I don't view Maxi Moralez as a difference maker in his league. He's not any better than Harrison, Ring or Herrera.

It's SO important not to fuck up your DP signings in this league. It doesn't matter how much you spend - $500k or $5 Million. They need to be difference makers week in, week out. They need to stand out as the best players on the field.

The Lampard fiasco set the team's development back a year. Pirlo compounded the issues. Maxi, while a better component than Pirlo, hasn't made the difference that other recent DPs this season have, specifically Nikolic, Schweini, Lodiero and Acosta.

Maxi has been very good for us. I'm happy we have him. But I don't think he's been DP good. His contract, coupled with Pirlo's presence on the roster, eliminates our ability to really improve our roster this summer.
 
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Looking over MLS roster rules, we could play Pirlo on the season ending injury list. This would open up his spot on the senior roster and his international roster spot. However, we would not receive salary relieve, so his salary charge would not be removed, so we couldn't get his DP spot.

No idea what would happen if he chooses to retire.

Though, it a minor injury according to the report and they say he's expected to be back in training next week.
Retirement provides immediate cap relief.
 
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I don't view Maxi Moralez as a difference maker in his league. He's not any better than Harrison, Ring or Herrera.

It's SO important not to fuck up your DP signings in this league. It doesn't matter how much you spend - $500k or $5 Million. They need to be difference makers week in, week out. They need to stand out as the best players on the field.

The Lampard fiasco set the team's development back a year. Pirlo compounded the issues. Maxi, while a better component than Pirlo, hasn't made the difference that other recent DPs this season have, specifically Nikolic, Schweini, Lodiero and Acosta.

Maxi has been very good for us. I'm happy we have him. But I don't think he's been DP good. His contract, coupled with Pirlo's presence on the roster, eliminates our ability to really improve our roster this summer.
When Maxi isn't forced to play defense for an impotent Pirlo or impotent TMac, then he is very effective. But when he has to expend effort making up for others uselessness, it impedes what he can do. We saw when he was paired with Ring and Hererra that he was able to launch very effective attacks. Had an assist on first goal vs Columbus and the third goal vs Atlanta. Those are very solid stats in back to back games. Once Hererra returns, we'll see more of the same.
 
I don't view Maxi Moralez as a difference maker in his league. He's not any better than Harrison, Ring or Herrera.

It's SO important not to fuck up your DP signings in this league. It doesn't matter how much you spend - $500k or $5 Million. They need to be difference makers week in, week out. They need to stand out as the best players on the field.

The Lampard fiasco set the team's development back a year. Pirlo compounded the issues. Maxi, while a better component than Pirlo, hasn't made the difference that other recent DPs this season have, specifically Nikolic, Schweini, Lodiero and Acosta.

Maxi has been very good for us. I'm happy we have him. But I don't think he's been DP good. His contract, coupled with Pirlo's presence on the roster, eliminates our ability to really improve our roster this summer.
Maxi has been great.

Toronto has Vasquez as a non-DP.

Our FO sucks most of the time. We're just competent enough that we'll be stuck with this asshattery for a while.
 
When Maxi isn't forced to play defense for an impotent Pirlo or impotent TMac, then he is very effective. But when he has to expend effort making up for others uselessness, it impedes what he can do. We saw when he was paired with Ring and Hererra that he was able to launch very effective attacks. Had an assist on first goal vs Columbus and the third goal vs Atlanta. Those are very solid stats in back to back games. Once Hererra returns, we'll see more of the same.

I think you've proved my point. Bringing in Maxi, when you know you have Pirlo, maybe wasn't the wisest move. Decisions on players aren't made in vacuums. Maxi didn't complement Pirlo and his contract and vice versa.

It's obvious we need some more punch. Going to be difficult to accomplish that this summer at the moment.
 
I think you've proved my point. Bringing in Maxi, when you know you have Pirlo, maybe wasn't the wisest move. Decisions on players aren't made in vacuums. Maxi didn't complement Pirlo and his contract and vice versa.

It's obvious we need some more punch. Going to be difficult to accomplish that this summer at the moment.
Bringing in Maxi was perfect considering we have an impotent Pirlo this season. I can't imagine how bad we'd be if we didn't have Maxi and had to rely on Pirlo every game. So I don't think I proved your point because Maxi allows us to put an aging and ineffective player on the bench while fulfilling the creative position.
 
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Aren't we near the top in goals scored and goals conceded? I think they did a decent job and they are phasing out grandpa. There is some room to upgrade, but they did such a good job with non DP signings, and by having possibly the best DP in the league already, I can only fault them for the mistakes they've made in depth. I'll take our starting XI over anyone in the league.
 
Aren't we near the top in goals scored and goals conceded? I think they did a decent job and they are phasing out grandpa. There is some room to upgrade, but they did such a good job with non DP signings, and by having possibly the best DP in the league already, I can only fault them for the mistakes they've made in depth. I'll take our starting XI over anyone in the league.

Wallace, Villa, Harrison, Moralez, Ring, Herrera (of what we've seen so far), Matarrita, Chanot, Callens, White (not really), Johnson

I'd take over any other starting 11 in the league.
 
I guess I look at Maxi like this. He's great as a GAM/TAM player, and good as a third DP. Few teams manage 3 top impact DPs at once, though I take Midas Mulligan Midas Mulligan's point about Vasquez as a non-DP in Toronto. But with K Kjbert's point in mind, right Maxi is our second DP and Pirlo is our third. Now I don't blame Maxi for that but looking at things as a whole you have to say our FO is not handling everything quite right and knowing Pirlo has been a bust they arguably should have gotten a high impact DP when Maxi came in. The one potential saving factor would be if Pirlo does retire and they get a high impact DP in the summer who would not have been available in the winter, But while we all like to dream about it we all also think that's less than likely.
 
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Bet Pirlo has lots of "niggling injuries" the rest of the year.

Christopher Jee Christopher Jee - where do you stand on him now? Are you willing to concede his pluses are far outweighed by his "holy fuck that was awful"s at this point? I just got there myself.
I've been pondering a response to mgarbowski mgarbowski 's excellently argued post in the Andrea thread. The Pirlo debate is so diffuse and sprawling at this point that it needs its own index by whoever is hammering away at the stadium index. At least most of the discussion there exists in a single thread.

If I were to follow up mgarbowski mgarbowski 's post at this point, I would need to do a decent amount of research and context setting, and the prospect of adding that to my life right now is a little exhausting. Responding without doing that kind of leg work would feel disrespectful. But since you're asking...

Sans exhaustive research and context setting – I acknowledge his athletic and defensive shortcomings. I acknowledge that his direct free kicks have been vastly underwhelming. I think a midfield of Herrera, Ring and Maxi is a better default midfield than one which includes Pirlo, although I'd like to see Pirlo flanked by Herrera and Ring with Maxi in at left wing, at some point.

On the other hand, I also think his contributions are underappreciated, both defensively and offensively, due to a combination of emotional bias and different ways of understanding the game. His defensive positioning is still superior to anything that Ring and Herrera offer. His composure, vision and ability to pick out a ball is unparalleled. His indirect set pieces are still the best on the team IMO. His assist stats have dropped slightly, but his key passes stats remain roughly at pre-NYCFC level, which indicates there is an adjacent-player quality deficit. Villa and Maxi are several passes closer to the key events, meaning less links in the chain towards key events that can fail. You might criticize Pirlo for not adapting his game, if anything, as Villa certainly has. Pirlo has always had skittish moments. So has Ring.

In short, my stance hasn't really changed much. Before we saw more of Herrera, I was open to him being a better option, certainly in the medium-to-long term. I don't think I expected to see Herrera as an 8, or for Ring to become a more passable 6.

I don't think we see Pirlo (or Tommy) all that differently, but the way you and I write about him differs dramatically in both severity and tone. I still don't think his negatives dramatically outweigh his pluses – he's still an RoI positive player IMO – but I do think the RoI of alternatives are slightly better against most teams in most scenarios.
 
https://www.nycfc.com/post/2017/05/20/injury-report-quartet-missing-orlando

Pirlo has a minor knee injury, he's flying straight to NY. Guess that means more T-Mac *sigh*

Pirlo has an acute case of "counting the days until Conte calls me"-itis.

Doesn't it smell a little strange that after he is out, the team generally plays better without him, he then comes back in and generally plays slow and ineffective, that he is then "injured"?

Putting your tin foil hat on, there's more here than it would appear.
 
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I've been pondering a response to mgarbowski mgarbowski 's excellently argued post in the Andrea thread. The Pirlo debate is so diffuse and sprawling at this point that it needs its own index by whoever is hammering away at the stadium index. At least most of the discussion there exists in a single thread.

If I were to follow up mgarbowski mgarbowski 's post at this point, I would need to do a decent amount of research and context setting, and the prospect of adding that to my life right now is a little exhausting. Responding without doing that kind of leg work would feel disrespectful. But since you're asking...

Sans exhaustive research and context setting – I acknowledge his athletic and defensive shortcomings. I acknowledge that his direct free kicks have been vastly underwhelming. I think a midfield of Herrera, Ring and Maxi is a better default midfield than one which includes Pirlo, although I'd like to see Pirlo flanked by Herrera and Ring with Maxi in at left wing, at some point.

On the other hand, I also think his contributions are underappreciated, both defensively and offensively, due to a combination of emotional bias and different ways of understanding the game. His defensive positioning is still superior to anything that Ring and Herrera offer. His composure, vision and ability to pick out a ball is unparalleled. His indirect set pieces are still the best on the team IMO. His assist stats have dropped slightly, but his key passes stats remain roughly at pre-NYCFC level, which indicates there is an adjacent-player quality deficit. Villa and Maxi are several passes closer to the key events, meaning less links in the chain towards key events that can fail. You might criticize Pirlo for not adapting his game, if anything, as Villa certainly has. Pirlo has always had skittish moments. So has Ring.

In short, my stance hasn't really changed much. Before we saw more of Herrera, I was open to him being a better option, certainly in the medium-to-long term. I don't think I expected to see Herrera as an 8, or for Ring to become a more passable 6.

I don't think we see Pirlo (or Tommy) all that differently, but the way you and I write about him differs dramatically in both severity and tone. I still don't think his negatives dramatically outweigh his pluses – he's still an RoI positive player IMO – but I do think the RoI of alternatives are slightly better against most teams in most scenarios.
Good post. I disagree with a few parts of it, but I agree with your conclusion that Pirlo can not add value at this point.

I was a strong believer he could be a role player for us before recent performances. He can't. Literally, he can't. The time has passed.

Pirlo is dead. Long live Pirlo.
 
Good post. I disagree with a few parts of it, but I agree with your conclusion that Pirlo can not add value at this point.

I was a strong believer he could be a role player for us before recent performances. He can't. Literally, he can't. The time has passed.

Pirlo is dead. Long live Pirlo.
Lol dammit that's not what I said
 
I guess I look at Maxi like this. He's great as a GAM/TAM player, and good as a third DP. Few teams manage 3 top impact DPs at once, though I take Midas Mulligan Midas Mulligan's point about Vasquez as a non-DP in Toronto. But with K Kjbert's point in mind, right Maxi is our second DP and Pirlo is our third. Now I don't blame Maxi for that but looking at things as a whole you have to say our FO is not handling everything quite right and knowing Pirlo has been a bust they arguably should have gotten a high impact DP when Maxi came in. The one potential saving factor would be if Pirlo does retire and they get a high impact DP in the summer who would not have been available in the winter, But while we all like to dream about it we all also think that's less than likely.


This accurately sums up my feelings. Great post. If Maxi replaced Pirlo, combined with Ring and Herrera, I'd be thrilled. But when we need magic on the field, I still think we only have Villa to rely on. Toronto has it better. Portland has it better. Seattle has it better.

We've had this debate about how to spend your DP assets. We always say you never use it on a GK or a Defender. Maybe you should never use it on a "6" either? Look at Michael Bradley. Sure, he's been good, but how often does he dominate a game? Jozy can't sniff Bradleys resume, but is the better and more important MLS player.
 
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Lol dammit that's not what I said
Didn't you say other player combos add more? I paraphrased, but I think I said what you meant. It's okay. Pirlo isn't going to come to your house and beat you up (as if he could catch you) for calling out his suckitude. There may be other worries on the board,though. I'll give you that.
 
Didn't you say other player combos add more? I paraphrased, but I think I said what you meant. It's okay. Pirlo isn't going to come to your house and beat you up (as if he could catch you) for calling out his suckitude. There may be other worries on the board,though. I'll give you that.
I still think he has a role on the team and what I said left room for that. Also, if I cared enough about board sentiment to have it change my opinion, I would be raping Pirlo like almost everybody else is.
#lawyered

You said it. Whether you meant to say it or not is a different discussion.
Ah the old lawyer vs engineer rivalry. Is that a thing here in the States?

Y'all always loved scrambling for territory on the existing field of play. We were always about drawing the lines on new fields :)
 
I still think he has a role on the team and what I said left room for that. Also, if I cared enough about board sentiment to have it change my opinion, I would be raping Pirlo like almost everybody else is.

Ah the old lawyer vs engineer rivalry. Is that a thing here in the States?

Y'all always loved scrambling for territory on the existing field of play. We were always about drawing the lines on new fields :)
I don't know anything about lines. More of a drinker myself.
 
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