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Ballon d'Or Snub KDB vs scrub Phil Coutinho: By the Numbers

Discussion in 'Bleacher Features' started by Midas Mulligan, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter International Liaison

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    I’ll be honest, you misssd the point, ie, they are at the same level (though I rated KDB a notch ahead two weeks ago, not sure I would now).

    You’ve already said you lack context. I’m not sure why I responded.
     
  2. NYCFC_Dan

    NYCFC_Dan Senior Member Staff Member Seasoned Supporter

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    My context was your claim that Coutinho scoring 1 goal less in so many minutes made him as good or in some way better because of his average. But putting in 3 against weaker competition yet your team still being 20 points behind on the table doesn’t mean shit.
    And a quick look at when he’s scoring and contributing assists shows it’s against weak competition and he’s basically invisible against top clubs.

    KDB 3 goals 2 assists and 4 MOTM against top 6 teams.
    Coutinho 1 goal. 0 assists and 0 MOTM.
    5 games for KDB and 4 for Coutinho.

    MOTM is relevant because you made it so in your OP claiming they both have the same amount. True, but look at the teams it’s against.
     
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  3. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter International Liaison

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    Just find some video of Coutinho this year. He, just like KDB, is among the world’s best.

    Again, Barcelona didn’t offer nearly 2x the price of KDB for a guy who is miles below. That was the implication that launched the initial discussion. If you look back at the MC thread, I had said that I rated KDB above him this year up until a couple of weeks ago despite the fact that numbers point to Coutinho having a better year.

    I mean, if you’re going to bring in team results, then KDB is better than Messi this year because MC is just on fire. I don’t think team results say a whole lot that is relevant to p2p comparisons (basis for awards, sure. Scouting, not so much.). They certainly don’t tell you much without watching performances and absolutely not enough to call a player invisible.
     
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  4. NYCFC_Dan

    NYCFC_Dan Senior Member Staff Member Seasoned Supporter

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    I really can’t say much about Coutinho’s play because as I stated before I haven’t seen him play at all this season. Also I was honestly clueless in regard to what this was all about.
    Just threw my 2 cents out there. It’s been a slow week.
     
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  5. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter International Liaison

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    NYCFC_DanNYCFC_Dan just watch this. I don’t even think it’s particularly comprehensive. The guy is just abusing everyone. It’s laughable to watch even two people try to tackle him.

     
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  6. Yankeedom

    Yankeedom Newbie

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    One point which should be mentioned - De Bruyne is playing much deeper this year and really shouldn't be considered an attacking midfielder, by positioning.

    He's been playing more of the deep-lying playmaker role this season, with license to make those box-to-box runs, of course.
     
  7. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter International Liaison

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    Valid point. I’d add to it by saying that’s more how it looks on paper than in practice.

    I think him nominally lining up as a CM
    1) is actually giving him more freedom to find space, as the forwards and wide men push the back line deeper
    2) city hardly ever seem to be defending in a standard final third shape since they are winning the ball back so high
    3) in the rare event they are deeper, IIRC, he is often the “out ball” to trigger the counter (where he is at his best, iyam)

    Either way, certainly not a criticism of his play. Again, he’s stellar. The point, as I’ve repeated, is both are have become absolutely insane players who are total nightmares for defenders.

    KDB hits what seems like that same pass over and over with such accuracy, and his two-footedness twists up defenders and opens space for cracking shots.

    Phil just does it differently, as he brings his Brazilian ball control and flair. His range of passing is also excellent, but he is a just a level off of KDB in accuracy. And this isn’t a comparison point, but it’s wild to me that Phil has more goals from outside the box than anyone in the PL since he moved to Liverpool. I still remember his early years where he was all flair and no final product, so I still surprise myself when I end up shouting for him to have a crack. And his deadball shots...we’ll just say definitely not Pir-noooo level.

    On a sort of random note, I see a lot of KDB and a lot of Hazard in Pulisic. Long way to go to get their heights, but he’s on/ahead of schedule from where either were.

    Another random note, we should start a thread to bust Chelsea’s balls about all of the insane talent they never let see the field. Two guys Mourinho let rot are absolutely murdering the league.
     
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  8. Yankeedom

    Yankeedom Newbie

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    I'm ALWAYS up for busting some chav balls, but I'm going to fess up. I'm totally rooting for them (and Arsenal, Spurs, and your scousers) to overtake United and drop 'em out of UCL play for '18-'19 (playing with fire for next season, I know).
     
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  9. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter International Liaison

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    Well, fuck.

    Little bastard wouldn’t stick it out for 5 more months.

    Time to write a stupid money check to Monaco or Dortmund, I guess.
     
  10. JayH

    JayH Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    If it’s Dortmund at least it becomes super cool from your perspective.
     
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  11. LionNYC

    LionNYC Senior Member Staff Member Elite Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    Just not Pulisic. Don't ruin Pulisic's growth by putting him in the Premier League.
     
  12. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter International Liaison

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    We’re not talking about Chelsea or United. We’re talking about the manager who brought him to Dortmund and into first team training almost immediately. Klopp lives to develop talent.

    ETA:
    Look at Mane, Salah, AOC, Gini, Lallana, Can, TAA, Gomez, Andy Robertson, Moreno, Firmino.

    All players who have reached new heights playing for Klopp. Hell, look at Gotze with Klopp vs. Gotze without him.

    I think it would actually be good for Pulisic, as he’s pretty much the ideal combination of pace and skill and defensive work rate for LFC. Additionally, he actually does the one thing Coutinho did for the team that is difficult to replace with the current roster: take on multiple defenders on the dribble.

    All that to say, I have seen no rumors of it this time around. But given how the VVD signing went down, that actually gives me the slightest little bit of hope. I’d rather see $100 million go for CP than Lemar.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  13. Gotham Gator

    Gotham Gator Senior Member Donor

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    One question is, what’s in it for CP?
     
  14. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter International Liaison

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    3-4x the money
     
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  15. Christopher Jee

    Christopher Jee Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    Gotta think that playing in a more prominent English-speaking league will give him a lot more exposure and off-the-field moneymaking power. I imagine having him star in the EPL would probably move the needle on the overall perception of the game here too.
     

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