Columbus 2nd Leg ECS - Postmatch

[Ulrich]

It’s a disaster. It was supposed to maximize consistency and accuracy through technology. Instead the erratic manner by which it is used and then ignored has made the officiating even more inconsistent and substantially more unfair. For example, leg one it was used and changed our season. Leg two it was ignored when it would have changed our season.

Just watched the video clip, and those exact plays seemed so obvious during the game, and when nothing was called I assumed VAR would still review and correct if warranted, but after watching Borg’s video, and hearing his commentary, we got screwed out of 2 additional PKs. The problem is that until the wronged owners make a stink about it, nothing will change, because a league analyst has zero clout calling out PRO.

As a side note, anybody see that the Bundesliga VAR Head got canned for fixing/manipulating the reviews? The tin foil hat regarding our lack of obvious PK calls is a lot less crazy if a top5 League has problems with their head official influencing calls/no calls.

http://www.espnfc.com/german-bundes...var-project-manager-after-manipulation-claims

 

[Gotham Gator]

I swore I'd never watch another Simon Borg video again but that being said...

- Wallace First PK: Good call
- Wallace Second PK: No call, should have been a PK
- Handball in the Box: Natural arm position
- Last Crazy Play: No dangerous play foul on Maxi, No kick on Harrison, Kick to the midsection of Villa.

So, Borg is telling us. 1) We should have had a 2nd PK thanks to Wallace. 2) We should have had a PK at the end of the game. Motherfucking PRO and VAR. Fuck the system.

Start at 2:45

And who was the VAR who apparently failed to recommend a review of these plays???

That’s right... it was this guy...

 

[gbservis]

And who was the VAR who apparently failed to recommend a review of these plays???

That’s right... it was this guy...

View attachment 7732

The calls in that Chicago game are still so unsettling. If you told me of all the sporting events I've attended over my lifetime only one was totally fixed by a ref who had money on the game I'd guess it was that one in a heartbeat. He was so quick on the cards for all of our players and none of Chicago's. But the biggest red flag to me was how hard he rode SJ to get the ball back in play after every goal kick. He was obsessive about it which was particularly strange given how hot it was. Typically on days like that I've seen refs be a little more forgiving to give everyone a breather but he was screaming at SJ the moment the ball went out.

On one hand I hope he lost a ton of money on that game despite his best efforts to ensure Chicago won. On the other hand I really hope there isn't fixing going on because a scandal like that could set the league back years. The NBA weathered a ref game fixing challenge but MLS isn't in nearly a strong enough position to do the same as easily.

 

[LionNYC]

And who was the VAR who apparently failed to recommend a review of these plays???

That’s right... it was this guy...

View attachment 7732

I really, really want him to be a 4th official for a home game next season. I will rip into him all 90 minutes. I may even make a sign and bring it with me to the game.

 

[Christopher Jee]

The calls in that Chicago game are still so unsettling. If you told me of all the sporting events I've attended over my lifetime only one was totally fixed by a ref who had money on the game I'd guess it was that one in a heartbeat. He was so quick on the cards for all of our players and none of Chicago's. But the biggest red flag to me was how hard he rode SJ to get the ball back in play after every goal kick. He was obsessive about it which was particularly strange given how hot it was. Typically on days like that I've seen refs be a little more forgiving to give everyone a breather but he was screaming at SJ the moment the ball went out.

On one hand I hope he lost a ton of money on that game despite his best efforts to ensure Chicago won. On the other hand I really hope there isn't fixing going on because a scandal like that could set the league back years. The NBA weathered a ref game fixing challenge but MLS isn't in nearly a strong enough position to do the same as easily.

Him having lost a bunch of money on that game would def explain his VAR performance.

 

[Ulrich]

Him having lost a bunch of money on that game would def explain his VAR performance.

The crazy thing about it is that Borg is typically 50/50 on PK calls and even semi obvious ones get the no-call from him, but for him to think three were deserved is a bit telling since it’s so counter to his usual analysis.

Would hate for MLS to have to weather a match fixing saga, but it would be nice to see a bunch of these PRO refs unceremoniously removed from all officiating work. PRO should clean house this offseason if for no other reason than their current crop is so bad (conspiracy bad and/or performance bad). Throw in that rookies get assigned important matches and fail, and that there isn’t enough common sense for a sick Ref not to begin a match knowing they may not physically be able to to complete it, and that a few make the matches about them. PRO’s influence on MLS is just cancerous and needs to be cut out.

 

[canchon]

And who was the VAR who apparently failed to recommend a review of these plays???

That’s right... it was this guy...

View attachment 7732

Somebody should make a list of all the bad decisions made by either Allen Crap-man or Ismael El-Crap. And it was both of them who made critical game changing mistakes to negatively affect NYCFC’s season.

Or you can blame Alan Kelly for getting sick. Ugh.

 

[gbservis]

The crazy thing about it is that Borg is typically 50/50 on PK calls and even semi obvious ones get the no-call from him, but for him to think three were deserved is a bit telling since it’s so counter to his usual analysis.

Would hate for MLS to have to weather a match fixing saga, but it would be nice to see a bunch of these PRO refs unceremoniously removed from all officiating work. PRO should clean house this offseason if for no other reason than their current crop is so bad (conspiracy bad and/or performance bad). Throw in that rookies get assigned important matches and fail, and that there isn’t enough common sense for a sick Ref not to begin a match knowing they may not physically be able to to complete it, and that a few make the matches about them. PRO’s influence on MLS is just cancerous and needs to be cut out.

I thought the same thing, Borg skews toward the ref side of things to a fairly considerable degree. I always assumed this was by design to keep PRO happy since after all the videos are a product of the official league site. For him to call out that many things was rare and noteworthy.

The ref situation is going to stunt the growth of the league if it's not doing so already. Nearly every time I encounter a fan of one of the bigger leagues seeing the MLS for the first time they comment that the officiating is noticeably bad. The skill of the league has outpaced the skill of the refs by a large margin. What's the solution? Better pay? Different affiliation? Anyone know what other leagues have done to successfully improve officiating?

 

[Seven]

And who was the VAR who apparently failed to recommend a review of these plays???

That’s right... it was this guy...

View attachment 7732

But...but, he's the referee of the year!
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017...rey-parker-win-referee-assistant-referee-year

 

[LionNYC]

And who was the VAR who apparently failed to recommend a review of these plays???

That’s right... it was this guy...

View attachment 7732

Interesting story from Germany about their VAR
https://en.as.com/en/2017/11/06/football/1509983596_845748.html

 

[JGarrettLieb]

I thought the same thing, Borg skews toward the ref side of things to a fairly considerable degree. I always assumed this was by design to keep PRO happy since after all the videos are a product of the official league site. For him to call out that many things was rare and noteworthy.

The ref situation is going to stunt the growth of the league if it's not doing so already. Nearly every time I encounter a fan of one of the bigger leagues seeing the MLS for the first time they comment that the officiating is noticeably bad. The skill of the league has outpaced the skill of the refs by a large margin. What's the solution? Better pay? Different affiliation? Anyone know what other leagues have done to successfully improve officiating?

It starts at the lowest levels. High grade professional ref's don't grow on trees, you have to play a numbers game with everyone who might want to suit up as a ref at the lowest levels.

As it is right now, you have parents screaming at the refs that little Timmy clearly didn't need a red card for flying into little Johnny with his studs up, missing the ball completely but getting little Jimmy square on. This will inevitably escalate to threats and occasionally death threats over a game being played at the children's level. You loose the majority of your referees here, and I would wager that you would loose the vast majority of the human material that would make a good ref after the first or second threat.

Basically we need to adopt what the danish and germans did and have parents sign a piece of paper at the start of the game acknowledging that this is for their kids and is supposed to be fun and that the parents won't yell at the ref. Surprisingly this actually works and no one shouts at their kids or the refs.

Also a pay hike would probably help more than anything. PRO refs make like $500 a game whereas NFL refs get $175k a year for fewer games.

 

[LionNYC]

The last one of the season...

 

[Mario]

As it is right now, you have parents screaming at the refs that little Timmy clearly didn't need a red card for flying into little Johnny with his studs up, missing the ball completely but getting little Jimmy square on. This will inevitably escalate to threats and occasionally death threats over a game being played at the children's level. You loose the majority of your referees here, and I would wager that you would loose the vast majority of the human material that would make a good ref after the first or second threat.

Basically we need to adopt what the danish and germans did and have parents sign a piece of paper at the start of the game acknowledging that this is for their kids and is supposed to be fun and that the parents won't yell at the ref. Surprisingly this actually works and no one shouts at their kids or the refs.

believe it or not, in new york there is a shortage of refs. Most of them are older guys who want to stay around soccer in a way other than coaching or playing. There is no appeal to the younger guys who could potentially want a career as a professional soccer referee and of course for many obvious reasons.

The people who assign the refs games overwork the referees in an unfair way. You get punished for missing games that are impossible to make. For example, the referee can be assigned 6 games on a Saturday. 9am-11:30 he's assigned to games in Bayside. Then thenext game will be assigned at 12PM at Pier 40. then have to go back somewhere in Brooklyn for another couple of games to end your day at 6. Then possibly repeat it again the following day.
You must be 15 minutes early for your next game. If you decline to take the game beforehand or fail to show up, you are penalized by the federation and they will assign you less games in the future (so next week you may have 2 games all weekend).

On top of all that you have to deal with coaches parents and players fighting with you all day. If you get the wrong game in the wrong place, they'll attack you.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

believe it or not, in new york there is a shortage of refs. Most of them are older guys who want to stay around soccer in a way other than coaching or playing. There is no appeal to the younger guys who could potentially want a career as a professional soccer referee and of course for many obvious reasons.

The people who assign the refs games overwork the referees in an unfair way. You get punished for missing games that are impossible to make. For example, the referee can be assigned 6 games on a Saturday. 9am-11:30 he's assigned to games in Bayside. Then thenext game will be assigned at 12PM at Pier 40. then have to go back somewhere in Brooklyn for another couple of games to end your day at 6. Then possibly repeat it again the following day.
You must be 15 minutes early for your next game. If you decline to take the game beforehand or fail to show up, you are penalized by the federation and they will assign you less games in the future (so next week you may have 2 games all weekend).

On top of all that you have to deal with coaches parents and players fighting with you all day. If you get the wrong game in the wrong place, they'll attack you.

So you just restated what I was saying in a different way? With the addendum that ref's are treated poorly by the federation.

 

[Mario]

So you just restated what I was saying in a different way? With the addendum that ref's are treated poorly by the federation.

adding to it, just thought it was relevant to quote it, guess ill go fuck myself for trying to add to the conversation, right...

 

[Mario]

and it's lose not loose.
you loosen a screw. you don't loosen refs.

 

[gbservis]

believe it or not, in new york there is a shortage of refs. Most of them are older guys who want to stay around soccer in a way other than coaching or playing. There is no appeal to the younger guys who could potentially want a career as a professional soccer referee and of course for many obvious reasons.

The people who assign the refs games overwork the referees in an unfair way. You get punished for missing games that are impossible to make. For example, the referee can be assigned 6 games on a Saturday. 9am-11:30 he's assigned to games in Bayside. Then thenext game will be assigned at 12PM at Pier 40. then have to go back somewhere in Brooklyn for another couple of games to end your day at 6. Then possibly repeat it again the following day.
You must be 15 minutes early for your next game. If you decline to take the game beforehand or fail to show up, you are penalized by the federation and they will assign you less games in the future (so next week you may have 2 games all weekend).

On top of all that you have to deal with coaches parents and players fighting with you all day. If you get the wrong game in the wrong place, they'll attack you.

Sounds terrible maybe MLS as an investment in it's future needs to start a ref development model and pair it up with the academy team games.

Or maybe for the people that want Pro/Rel so badly we give them ref Pro/Rel instead of team Pro/Rel. Each game tape is reviewed for erroneous calls. At the end of the season the worst refs get sent down a to the USL and the best refs from the USL get promoted.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

adding to it, just thought it was relevant to quote it, guess ill go fuck myself for trying to add to the conversation, right...

You normally troll or post really low effort stuff, so seeing you actually post more than a sentence made me suspicious of what you were trying to accomplish.

 

[Mario]

You normally troll or post really low effort stuff, so seeing you actually post more than a sentence made me suspicious of what you were trying to accomplish.

your posts usually just suck, that's why i troll.

 

[mgarbowski]

Did the club appeal the Callens red? Obviously he was suspended; just wondering if they gave it a shot.