Domènec Torrent Appointed NYCFC Head Coach (June '18) / Mutually Agree to Part Ways (November '19)

[ManhattanValley]

And considering the overwhelming majority of the coaching staff on CFG’s payroll is foreign, there is little chance anybody they would pick could have started yesterday cause nearly everyone would have needed a visa regardless of whether they were good candidates or not.

The overwhelming majority of ALL coaching staff are foreign, and would need a visa. Had CFG gone on the worldwide quest for the Holy Grail of managerial talent that you crave, it's almost certain the top candidate would be going through the exact same process Torrent is.

There are legitimate and obvious concerns about CFG picking another internal candidate to manage us. But trying to bash them because our coach needs a work permit isn't one of them. You make it sound like they picked the manager by pointing at the nearest guy in the CFG break room before realizing, oops! He needs a work permit as well *sad trombone noise*

 

[SanBartG]

Exactly- if we have to wait regardless, I want to wait for the best possible long term candidate, not the one that was the most convenient because he’s already in the CFG system.

So I’m not bashing them cause he needs a visa. I’m bashing them because I’m not sure the ROI on the wait is as good as it could have been.

Rather than opt for a interim caretaker that doesn’t need a visa to find the best long term candidate (that may need a visa), they appear to have picked the readily available guy, that may not be the best long term pick and still needs a visa.

*sad trombone noise*

 

[Seven]

Exactly- if we have to wait regardless, I want to wait for the best possible long term candidate, not the one that was the most convenient because he’s already in the CFG system.

So I’m not bashing them cause he needs a visa. I’m bashing them because I’m not sure the ROI on the wait is as good as it could have been.

Rather than opt for a interim caretaker that doesn’t need a visa to find the best long term candidate (that may need a visa), they appear to have picked the readily available guy, that may not be the best long term pick and still needs a visa.

*sad trombone noise*

But it’s also not just which coach is readily available. It’s also who is willing to come and coach in MLS and at New York.

Are you unhappy with Torrent or just the fact that he is within the CFG umbrella?

 

[SanBartG]

But it’s also not just which coach is readily available. It’s also who is willing to come and coach in MLS and at New York.

Are you unhappy with Torrent or just the fact that he is within the CFG umbrella?

That’s a totally fair point. I’m not necessarily unhappy with him as the choice per se but I view it with some skepticism.

It really is starting to look and feel like CFG isn’t really interested in the development of NYCFC as much as they are just using it as a means to an end for Man City. So Torrent may have been the best choice, in or out of CFG, but in the broader context, I think it’s more likely a symptom of a larger problem.

Basically- no way to know for sure either way but there is good reason to be skeptical of the choice as far as whether or not it was best for NYCFC... and i’m certainly not inclined to give CFG the benefit of the doubt. That ship sailed a long time ago.

 

[gbservis]

Yea, I completely agree with everything you're saying. The trend of the sport globally is consolidation of money and power, and basically colonialism. I kind of hate everything about the direction the game is going as far as the business side of it. FFP is an extremely small attempt to push back a bit, but anyway, that's a whole other discussion.

I think that RB and NYCFC struggle with attendance to an extent (at least compared to what I think a club in this geographic region is ultimately capable of). To what extent that's due to both teams being farm teams in some sense, is hard to tell, but I don't think it's an insignificant factor (personally, and based on conversations I've had with a lot of people). Anyway, like you said, some people accept it. It's a personal choice; if I give up my tickets, etc., it's not like I'll wish ill upon the team.

And as far as the Cosmos go... woof. They're not a farm team... they're a bad remix of an old song. And don't get me started on NASL as a whole. I could definitely get behind a lower division team (and have in the past, based on temporary locations). Anyway, for now, I'm still here... We'll see how Torrent does, what the rest of the season brings, and what this coming offseason looks like.

I'm not sure I understand the farm team narrative. For one I think far fewer people are aware of the NYCFC CFG connection that is typically implied in this discussions. We feel that way because all of us that are here on the forums are fully aware but we as a group are considerable outliers when compared to typical fans or potential fans.

I do think it's difficult for MLS to attract fans because the league isn't the best in the world with the best players the way most of the other professional sports are but that's an issue with the league. The people that wouldn't like NYCFC because they are a "farm team" are essentially saying I don't want to cheer for a team that's a feeder to a larger team. Why would they like any team in MLS regardless of affiliation, it's a feeder league and they will all have the same situation. Young talented players are going to hit MLS as a stepping stone and more on, only difference between NYCFC and a more independent MLS team is that our players will most consistently land within CFG. In the end what's the difference?

 

[LionNYC]

So if my count is right, the coaching staff will be Torrent + 4 new assistants + Perez + Vartughian + 2 physical coaches. That's a big staff.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007638770173251585

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007207034004082688

 

[Ulrich]

So if my count is right, the coaching staff will be Torrent + 4 new assistants + Perez + Vartughian + 2 physical coaches. That's a big staff.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007638770173251585

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007207034004082688

As long as one of those coaches is devoted full time to defending set pieces while a second coach is devoted full time to taking set pieces....

 

[Vallos]

I'm not sure I understand the farm team narrative. For one I think far fewer people are aware of the NYCFC CFG connection that is typically implied in this discussions. We feel that way because all of us that are here on the forums are fully aware but we as a group are considerable outliers when compared to typical fans or potential fans.

I do think it's difficult for MLS to attract fans because the league isn't the best in the world with the best players the way most of the other professional sports are but that's an issue with the league. The people that wouldn't like NYCFC because they are a "farm team" are essentially saying I don't want to cheer for a team that's a feeder to a larger team. Why would they like any team in MLS regardless of affiliation, it's a feeder league and they will all have the same situation. Young talented players are going to hit MLS as a stepping stone and more on, only difference between NYCFC and a more independent MLS team is that our players will most consistently land within CFG. In the end what's the difference?

That is a fantastic point. I did not ardently follow Major League Soccer before NYCFC, but I did hear the narrative being that the league was where you come to retire. Now, that story has changed where it is a stepping stone/feeder league, which by all accounts is a positive step forward. The arrow for MLS is still pointing upward and frankly, I do not see it moving down. If the US continues to grow in soccer as we expect it to do, we will eventually be a league where no one will want to leave.

 

[Ulrich]

That is a fantastic point. I did not ardently follow Major League Soccer before NYCFC, but I did hear the narrative being that the league was where you come to retire. Now, that story has changed where it is a stepping stone/feeder league, which by all accounts is a positive step forward. The arrow for MLS is still pointing upward and frankly, I do not see it moving down. If the US continues to grow in soccer as we expect it to do, we will eventually be a league will no one will want to leave.

Won’t happen until every away match is reached by charter flight.

 

[Vallos]

Won’t happen until every away match is reached by charter flight.

Baby steps.

 

[Ulrich]

Baby steps.

I don’t blame players for being like WTF when they find out they’re flying commercial. Airport travel is stressful, and as a pro, they should be entitled to smooth travel. Hell, even the upper tier of NCAA football programs fly charter.

 

[Falastur]

So if my count is right, the coaching staff will be Torrent + 4 new assistants + Perez + Vartughian + 2 physical coaches. That's a big staff.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007638770173251585

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007207034004082688

It's possible that Garth is using a form of terminology (possibly fed directly from the club itself) where every coach is either the "Head Coach" or is an "Assistant Coach". Under that system, the two fitness coaches would therefore be counted under the four assistants tweet too, rather than being additional to it.

 

[LionNYC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007655905742254080

 

[Christopher Jee]

I think this is part of a larger issue that other people have identified- NYCFC may just be a proving ground for Man City and not something CFG is really interested in developing for itself. Maybe i’m wrong but this choice seems to support that theory.

Why can't it be both a proving ground and a place they want to see successful? As said before I don't think it makes sense for them in a financial or brand sense for us to perenially underachieve.

 

[NYCFC_JD]

I'm not sure I understand the farm team narrative. For one I think far fewer people are aware of the NYCFC CFG connection that is typically implied in this discussions. We feel that way because all of us that are here on the forums are fully aware but we as a group are considerable outliers when compared to typical fans or potential fans.

I do think it's difficult for MLS to attract fans because the league isn't the best in the world with the best players the way most of the other professional sports are but that's an issue with the league. The people that wouldn't like NYCFC because they are a "farm team" are essentially saying I don't want to cheer for a team that's a feeder to a larger team. Why would they like any team in MLS regardless of affiliation, it's a feeder league and they will all have the same situation. Young talented players are going to hit MLS as a stepping stone and more on, only difference between NYCFC and a more independent MLS team is that our players will most consistently land within CFG. In the end what's the difference?

I don't understand what there is to not understand about the the farm team narrative... I think soccer fans in and around NYC that could be potential fans of this team are very, very aware of the CFG connection. I think that we on the forums are just those that were the most okay with it... obviously, because it's a self selecting group (and even more self-selecting as those who tire of the team/ownership drop out of the picture, it becomes an echo chamber). Yes, there are those folks who are EPL fans and just hate Man City, and wouldn't ever be a fan of NYCFC for that reason. But far more importantly, there are those fans who just can't stand the idea of rooting for a farm team / minor league squad. You know the usual arguments ... there are so many pro sports (and other entertainment) options, why root for a farm team... (Why NASL cared so much about D2 vs D1 designation... Americans don't want to watch minor leagues.)

With regard to MLS still being a growing league and now starting to become a selling league (a positive development)... I think that's really different from NYCFC being a feeder/farm team/proving ground for CFG. If you're an independent club in MLS with independent ownership, sure you're going to hope to develop guys and sell them on to leagues that are (currently) bigger and better than MLS, but you're no one's farm team... your team winning is your ownerships number one priority. And you may be selling guys now, but you're aspiration is for your club to grow and for the league to grow, and be the best in the world one day. That's a very different mentality than always being the little sister/brother club to the mothership.

I guess the simplest way I can put it is this... if I'm a Portland Timbers fan (for example), I know that that's my team, and I know who's in charge, and I know they want to win, and I know the actions they take are motivated by helping us win (sometimes in the short term, sometimes in the longer term) ... I'm a founding member of NYCFC and have been following them for half a decade now, and I literally cannot say any of those things about this team or ownership group with any confidence.

 

[SanBartG]

Why can't it be both a proving ground and a place they want to see successful? As said before I don't think it makes sense for them in a financial or brand sense for us to perenially underachieve.

It can be... but sometimes these goals will conflict and this choice MAY be one of those times...

 

[Seth]

I don't understand what there is to not understand about the the farm team narrative... I think soccer fans in and around NYC that could be potential fans of this team are very, very aware of the CFG connection. I think that we on the forums are just those that were the most okay with it... obviously, because it's a self selecting group (and even more self-selecting as those who tire of the team/ownership drop out of the picture, it becomes an echo chamber). Yes, there are those folks who are EPL fans and just hate Man City, and wouldn't ever be a fan of NYCFC for that reason. But far more importantly, there are those fans who just can't stand the idea of rooting for a farm team / minor league squad. You know the usual arguments ... there are so many pro sports (and other entertainment) options, why root for a farm team... (Why NASL cared so much about D2 vs D1 designation... Americans don't want to watch minor leagues.)

With regard to MLS still being a growing league and now starting to become a selling league (a positive development)... I think that's really different from NYCFC being a feeder/farm team/proving ground for CFG. If you're an independent club in MLS with independent ownership, sure you're going to hope to develop guys and sell them on to leagues that are (currently) bigger and better than MLS, but you're no one's farm team... your team winning is your ownerships number one priority. And you may be selling guys now, but you're aspiration is for your club to grow and for the league to grow, and be the best in the world one day. That's a very different mentality than always being the little sister/brother club to the mothership.

I guess the simplest way I can put it is this... if I'm a Portland Timbers fan (for example), I know that that's my team, and I know who's in charge, and I know they want to win, and I know the actions they take are motivated by helping us win (sometimes in the short term, sometimes in the longer term) ... I'm a founding member of NYCFC and have been following them for half a decade now, and I literally cannot say any of those things about this team or ownership group with any confidence.

I kind of disagree with, well, most of this. Not saying any of your points are factually incorrect but just don't think the "average" fan would really care, or even know about it for that matter. I think anyone on here or Reddit doesn't really count as an average fan as we go out of our way to think about and get involved in these things. I think what's closer to the public reality is when I wear a jersey to work on game day and people ask me what it is. The almost universal reply to my saying it's the New York pro soccer team in MLS is something along the lines of "wow, I didn't know there was one." And then the inevitable next question is where do they play. When I say Yankee Stadium the Yankee-hat-wearing person who's asking me will always give me a look of almost shocked incredulity about that clearly crazy idea that there's a team that invades their stadium that they've absolutely never heard of.

So I guess in a way if we're talking soccer fans I might agree with you (although not sure I actually do as I'm not really buying the farm team narrative) but if we're talking New York sports fans in general, or perhaps the whole country, I'm not sure anyone would know who owns a team or what their involvement might be. I mean, I'm a lifelong New Yorker and I barely know who the Knicks owner is. No idea who might own the Nets.

I just think we're in an "awareness bubble" about the team and the league and how we feel about things like this doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things. Bottom line is we're not the average fans.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I don't understand what there is to not understand about the the farm team narrative... I think soccer fans in and around NYC that could be potential fans of this team are very, very aware of the CFG connection. I think that we on the forums are just those that were the most okay with it... obviously, because it's a self selecting group (and even more self-selecting as those who tire of the team/ownership drop out of the picture, it becomes an echo chamber). Yes, there are those folks who are EPL fans and just hate Man City, and wouldn't ever be a fan of NYCFC for that reason. But far more importantly, there are those fans who just can't stand the idea of rooting for a farm team / minor league squad. You know the usual arguments ... there are so many pro sports (and other entertainment) options, why root for a farm team... (Why NASL cared so much about D2 vs D1 designation... Americans don't want to watch minor leagues.)

With regard to MLS still being a growing league and now starting to become a selling league (a positive development)... I think that's really different from NYCFC being a feeder/farm team/proving ground for CFG. If you're an independent club in MLS with independent ownership, sure you're going to hope to develop guys and sell them on to leagues that are (currently) bigger and better than MLS, but you're no one's farm team... your team winning is your ownerships number one priority. And you may be selling guys now, but you're aspiration is for your club to grow and for the league to grow, and be the best in the world one day. That's a very different mentality than always being the little sister/brother club to the mothership.

I guess the simplest way I can put it is this... if I'm a Portland Timbers fan (for example), I know that that's my team, and I know who's in charge, and I know they want to win, and I know the actions they take are motivated by helping us win (sometimes in the short term, sometimes in the longer term) ... I'm a founding member of NYCFC and have been following them for half a decade now, and I literally cannot say any of those things about this team or ownership group with any confidence.

I understand your argument. It makes sense logically.

But practically, if we’re a farm team, it’s good that it only works one way - down flow of talent.

The chasm between our squad and league rigors and those of MCFC is so great, I think it requires more than a small amount of hubris to believe anyone at MC would consider NYCFC a proving ground for their first team.

A place to take a step towards an intermediate step, sure. But it can’t be a proving ground, yet. By the time we grow to that stage, I suspect the club will have grown large enough that it will be more difficult for CFG to self-deal in a way that disadvantages NYC without raising the ire of a lot more people.

That’s my take. For today, anyway.

ETA - and it’s why I never bought that PV was lined up to replace Pep. I think that was fan fiction. I believe PV got what he intended out of it and what CFG intended him to get.

 

[LeeNYCFC]

With regard to MLS still being a growing league and now starting to become a selling league (a positive development)... I think that's really different from NYCFC being a feeder/farm team/proving ground for CFG. If you're an independent club in MLS with independent ownership, sure you're going to hope to develop guys and sell them on to leagues that are (currently) bigger and better than MLS, but you're no one's farm team... your team winning is your ownerships number one priority.

Would you want Robert Kraft? Anthony Precourt? There are plenty of atrocious independent owners in MLS and worldwide that are quite pleased to run teams for their own benefit or in neutral. With the Cosmos, Rocco went all-in with his cash to be the big dogs in NASL, but is ultimately only playing for grudges with USSF and to try to sneak around franchise fees. I'm sure his fans loved his winning mentality, and then they didn't have a team anymore.

I have zero fan interest in Man City and would generally root against them as I don't care for massive clubs, and I don't love the CFG connection either. But if an "independent owner" had been able to bring in PV to coach their team for a few years and then lost him to a bigger opportunity and had developed Jack and then sold him overseas, wouldn't you be pointing to that owner as an impressive example of someone doing things the right way? Both of those outcomes would've happened regardless of who owned the club, but the time that each was here was valuable. They may not have done the public manager recruitment tour that you were looking for, but teams promote an assistant coach from within their organization when a head coach leaves all the time.

This club does plenty of asinine things, but I don't think it's fair to call that one bucket of CFG. Some of it is the limitations of what and where MLS is, some of it is the sometimes shoddy connection with CFG, and some of it is the at times tone-deaf or disinterested NYCFC front office and staff.

Wherever my feelings are about CFG at any particular moment however, I find it very easy to ignore them when I see our boys on the field. Watching Villa's incredible talent, Ring be the dominator, or Johnson wowing me between the sticks, all of those things stoke my love of the sport. Reconnecting with loving the game and the competition on the field may be your way forward if you want to keep supporting this club.

 

[Ulrich]

I understand your argument. It makes sense logically.

But practically, if we’re a farm team, it’s good that it only works one way - down flow of talent.

The chasm between our squad and league rigors and those of MCFC is so great, I think it requires more than small amount of hubris to believe anyone at MC would consider NYCFC a proving ground for their first team.

A place to take a step towards an intermediate step, sure. But it can’t be a proving ground, yet. By the time we grow to that stage, I suspect the club will have grown large enough that it will be more difficult for CFG to self-deal in a way that disadvantages NYC without raising the ire of a lot more people.

That’s my take. For today, anyway.

ETA - and it’s why I never bought that PV was lined up to replace Pep. I think that was fan fiction. I believe PV got what he intended out of it and what CFG intended him to get.

I’d like CFG to get to the mental point of saying to their fringe players that the loan they’re going on is to NYCFC, not where do you want to go, and finish it by telling them the league is faster and more physical than they realize with technical abilities that may surprise them and if they think they’re ready to really take the step up then they need to go prove it first at NYCFC. I think some of their up and coming players could be in for a shock and not hold down a starting role.