Empire of Soccer Opinion on NYCFC

Human Rights Watch found that Sheik Mansour uses his sports team to launder the image of his repressive regime. This isn't just about people who don't like the idea of NYCFC (and I don't, as a New Yorker how can I like something that claims to be the baby sister to a third rate English city, but I digress), this is what serious people say about him. There is no comparison between that and someone's sponsor on the shirt, or who they buy kits from.

If MLS wants to do business with him, that's their business. But as a New Yorker, the idea that he is asking City taxpayers to subsidize his laundering operation is beyond despicable. The City Council stood up and said NO WAY to him with the Queens stadium, and they will do so again. And we will make sure that every politician in this City knows what this guy is about. Trust me on that. No stadium is getting built in Melissa Mark Viverito's district that's spearheaded buy Sheik Mansour. I know that already. Short of finding a 12 acre plot that is already zoned to allow a stadium (good luck!) NYCFC is never going to get their stadium in NYC.

Enjoy your message board everyone, I'll be leaving now. Best of luck.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jul/30/manchester-city-human-rights-accusations

Ok. a few things. First, if the goal of City is to make Abu Dhabi look like some progressive paradise, they're not doing a great job. The article says they're pushing the brand by...adverts to go travel to Abu Dhabi? Fly on our airlines? What on earth does that have to do with the regime? I didn't know the regime owned all of those business until the article said so, and I'm a City fan. That's not a great way of branding the regime since branding the regime requires them to actually, you know, mention the regime.

All this hemming and hawing about the airline obscures the fact that if you don't like Middle Eastern regimes, the way to do it is not bash MCFC or NYCFC but to stop buying Arab oil. Period. The regime has power not because Aguero scores goals but because the West continues to fund the regime by purchasing their oil. Until the West wants to make difficult decisions regarding its oil dependency (such as energy conservation and producing more oil by itself) this doesn't really have bite.

Second, as far as buying the kits, if the allegations regarding Nike or other kit manufacturers and their own human rights problems are true if you buy the kits you are directly supporting that. I don't know how you've managed to tell yourself the more direct contribution is ok but that supporting a team who is majority-owned by a team which is owned by a group led by a politician in a regime which is bad is not ok.

Third, as far as subsidies go I prefer stadiums to be privately funded by all owners ask for the help. As far as zoning, I love your idea that New York should fight the creation of a $350 Million stadium. That's not like the matches that could be held there, including World Cup qualifying matches, would do anything to help the city or that district.
Nope. NYC should fight that, and make sure thousands of USMNT fans pay to stay in hotels in Columbus and Portland rather than NY.

That's just dumb. Subsidies aside, if you're not willing to work on zoning issues to allow a business because you don't like the owner you're going to lose a lot of businesses.
 
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For what its worth,

A Colorado fan pointed out that NYCFC has nearly double the followers on Twitter as the Rapids...and NYCFC obviously has no team yet. I've seen tweets from Egypt, South Africa, and Sweden as well as England.

So for this guy to be all "Why's this club Garber's pet project!?" I'd say that's why....
 
There are two discussions going on here, the realm of reality, and the realm of opinion. Let's talk about reality first.

Look, I've been at the effort to bring professional soccer to NYC for 7 years now. I'm not sure you guys have boned up on what's been going on, so here you go. So far, MLS, MCFC and the Yankees have been spectacularly unsuccessful in trying to get a stadium built in the city, and that was when Bloomberg was Mayor and Quinn was the City council speaker, to extremely business and real estate development friendly powerful politicians. MLS shelled out $1.7 million in lobbying fees in 2012 alone to get the right to build a soccer stadium in Flushing. They spent hundreds of thousands, if not millions more, on public relations, their Town Hall event (which none of you attended), and they got nothing to show for it. Zero.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/da...ies-big-flushing-stadium-blog-entry-1.1693813

Next, this is New York City. Contrary to what you say, people don't "suddenly" care about human rights when a soccer team is involved. We have very active civil rights and human rights communities. Did you miss the millions who marched against the Iraq War? Occupy Wall Street? Do you realize that thousands of New Yorkers devote their professional lives to human rights issues like immigration, criminal justice, and, most relevantly, LGBT issues? After years of public pressure, the gay community finally got marriage equality in NY. There is a major international effort afoot, well supported by New Yorkers, to pressure Russia about its anti gay policies. It is disrespectful and just plain wrong to suggest that people only care now because of a soccer team. To pretend this all doesn't exist does not help your cause. And you have very recent history to help guide you. When Sheik Mansour was associated with the Flushing Stadium, Queens Councilman Danny Dromm came right out of the box opposing anything the shiek is associated with. I know Danny, he doesn't know the first thing about soccer. So no, this isn't just about soccer. Here's what he said at the time:
"This is outrageous. This is also a country where gay and lesbian people could be subject to chemical castration,” Dromm, an openly gay politician, said in the statement. “It is totally unacceptable. I urge my colleagues in the City Council and elected officials across the state to join me in saying that New Yorkers won’t do business with a murderous regime and we won’t sell, trade or give away our public assets to those who discriminate and participate in human rights abuses.:
http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2013/18/stadiumupdate_all_2013_05_01_q.html
Sheik Mansour is toxic for you guys. He's an albatross that you need to deal with.

You don't have to agree with any of this, but it's the reality you're dealing with. Period. How on Earth you think you will get a stadium built in NYC inside of 12 years, with a less friendly mayor and city council, and a more emboldened LGBT community is beyond me. And with no stadium plan remotely on the horizon, how do you make this work?

So here you guys are, arguing against Human Rights Watch, and calling everyone who opposes this project on principle as being motivated by sporting rivalry, when it's you guys running around implying that Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are patsies for Manchester United. Good luck with that.

On top of all this, you have to deal with the Public Relations debacle of Sheik Mansour and the richest sports club in the world, the New York Yankees, asking for NYC taxpayer handouts and a bailout of rich bondholders for the underutilized Yankee Stadium parking lots.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-offers-free-rent-arab-firm-article-1.1544173

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...stadium-deal-200m-sheikdown-article-1.1567123

And no, unless you are planning to build a 75,000 seat stadium, there will be no world cup matches at your imaginary stadium. 40,000 is the FIFA minimum, but the US has proven no problem in selling out giant football stadiums.

As for the opinion realm, yes, the best thing for all of us to do is bring our economic lives to a grinding halt and stop using oil. But that's not realistic. It is nearly impossible to essentially just live your life without doing something that compromises the human rights of some other living being, one way or another. So we make choices about the reasonable things we do in life to assert our principles. For soccer fans who also happen to love human rights, it is a very easy choice to oppose Sheik Mansour and his sports teams. And believe me, I don't begrudge the Mancunian who was born and bred Man City for enjoying his success. But this is clearly not that.

Finally, if you guys are a supporters club, start acting like it. Has anyone contacted the NYCFC front office to ask them questions about the stadium? I have read some other threads and no one seems to know anything about what NYCFC plans to do. If you think that asking for public subsidies is a bad idea, have you told them that? And if they don't respond, is that a team you really want to support? Other MLS and NASL supporters groups have excellent relations and influence with the front office. Do you?
 
Leo, you are dealing in strawmen.

Yes, the MLS failed to get a stadium and the government is less amenable to that. No one disputes this. That doesn't change the fact that a stadium is in NYC's best interest and the local government should recognize that. I imagine once the team is playing more pressure will be put on the City to try to find an amenable agreement (and the article you link to has Sheik self-financing the project).

What we've been criticizing is how fans of other NY soccer teams are lobbing the "human rights thing" not in a way to raise awareness but as barb in the manner a United fan would throw their numerous titles at a City fan. Having serious qualms about human rights is one thing; using those qualms in "fan fight" is unacceptable. In the article and on twitter, many RBNY and Cosmos fans are using these barbs in a way that trivializes and demeans the victims. There are people who are outside the soccer realm who have raised these concerns, and no one here is pretending they're secret United fans. Literally no one has done that in this thread. You've made that up to make yourself feel more self-righteous.

And there is no minimum for World Cup Qualifying matches, which is what I was talking about which is why Columbus hosts WC qualifying matches even with a capacity of 20k. Though if NYC's local government wants to grandstand against MLS there are many other stadiums other than MetLife that US Soccer can send potential WC matches to with cities that want to support soccer.

As for public relations debacle, please. The Yankees already have gotten subsidies for their new stadium. Somehow New Yorkers are not all in arms. Life goes on. If they go that route, they'll be fine.

And look, if the connections to the Sheik means you can't support NYCFC, then that's ok. It's your free time and your money and you can root for the Cosmos if you want to. Have fun. But to suggest that rooting for NYCFC is complicity in human rights abuses is absurd. I don't think Chelsea fans are supporting the invasion of Ukraine or discrimination against gay rights because their owner is a influential supporter of Putin. Supporting a club is not an endorsement of one of the owner's personal politics. It's just not.
 
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Hey, I'm new to the boards (I plan to introduce myself later on) but I just wanted to chime in. I'm here to discuss football, not human rights. Obviously, everyone is free to discuss their opinions about social and political issues, but I want to discuss football because I assumed that's what a football forum was for.

I don't feel like arguing with (and here is an assumption based on google) a seasoned civil rights lawyer and Cosmos fan who uses his expertise and energies to commingle his sociopolitical crusade and his fandom. If you don't like who NYCFC's owners are, take it up with someone that can do something about it, not fans of the team.

I personally don't care about the "realm of fact" when discussing a team that I support biasedly. The only fact I care about is the number of W's we will have in the win column.
 
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Hey, I'm new to the boards (I plan to introduce myself later on) but I just wanted to chime in. I'm here to discuss football, not human rights. Obviously, everyone is free to discuss their opinions about social and political issues, but I want to discuss football because I assumed that's what a football forum was for.

I don't feel like arguing with (and here is an assumption based on google) a seasoned civil rights lawyer and Cosmos fan who uses his expertise and energies to commingle his sociopolitical crusade and his fandom. If you don't like who NYCFC's owners are, take it up with someone that can do something about it, not fans of the team.

I personally don't care about the "realm of fact" when discussing a team that I support biasedly. The only fact I care about is the number of W's we will have in the win column.

Welcome!

Yeah, I started this thread to discuss the article, and then Leo cam and kind of hijacked. Obviously he has his political axes to grind and own pro-Cosmos bias.
 
I hijacked the thread? I was talking about the piece on Empire of Soccer.

It's funny, I'm the only one on here who is not anonymous, and you're inventing all these conspiracy theories. I even referred to myself, under my name, as a borough boy in the comments section. Hardly reluctant, I'm a proud Cosmos fan, and a proud NYC soccer fan, one who was working on this for years before any of you. While I wouldn't hurl the "plastic fan" epithet at you, you might want to think about why most people refer that way to you and your supporters. When for years pro soccer fans were here in NYC and one of you show up until the bright lights of Man City show up.

If you guys ever make it onto the pitch, (and I think that's still very much an "if"), we will have a rivalry. Right now, this about something much different. I'm a New Yorker, and I love New York, yet if things work out we will have two teams in MLS, one a cross marketing experiment for a can of soda, the other, the little sister club of a team from England. Shameful. All I wanted was to have a NYC MLS team to be proud of. We haven't gotten that yet.

Regardless, if you want to be a supporters club, and this is meant as friendly advice having been one of the founders of the Borough Boys -- a group that was here laying the groundwork for what turned out to be NYCFC-- you have to understand the realm of reality. And what you believe is in the "best interest" of the City, and what's possible, are two entirely different things. You guys ought to start thinking about how you can help, because the political will is not there for a soccer stadium right now.

I really did not insult or troll or hijack. I kept it civil. I'm sorry you've got to ascribe motivations to me to affirm yourself. My final word is this: How come you guys aren't talking to the front office? Why are you left here to speculate? If you're the fans, demand your place at the table. We have it. Sons of Ben have it. Seattle and Portland fans all have it. You should demand no less.

Best of luck. I won't post here anymore, but since I'm not afraid of revealing my identity, feel free to get in touch if you are so inclined. All the best.

And ps yes, as a St. Pauli fan, I do think sport and society do, and should, mix. That's the power of sports.
 
So we got Cosmosfans pulling that old "Holier than thou" card.. :rolleyes:

The same Cosmos that are not only sponsored by Emirates, which happens to be an airline controlled by the Emir of Dubai who is also the Prime Minister of UAE, apart from being Sheikh Mansour father in law that is and didn´t Cosmos just return from a trip to Dubai where they where paying homage to this land of evil intent?
But the Cosmos ain´t owned by Emirates you might argue, no that is correct.. SELA owns Cosmos, a Saudi Arabian sports marketing and player agency without much assets really but financed by none other than *Sheikh Saleh Kamel who had to endure 16 lawsuits (but the cases was thrown out) from families of the 9/11 victims when it was discovered that a charity he had founded was listed as a donator to other charities that turned out to be controlled by Al-Qaeda
Take note that Bank Aljazira is the 2nd biggest shareholder in SELA as well.
And that is why Cosmos never have revealed to he public where the money to build Beaumont Stadium is supposed to be coming from.. A somewhat sensitive issue in NY post 9/11

*Born in 1941, Mecca, Saudi Arabia
CEO, Dallah Al Baraka (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia) - 3rd largest Saudi company
Chairman Arab Radio & Television (ART)
Founding member and shareholder, Al Shamal Islamic Bank (Khartoum, Sudan)
Partner, Tamlik Company Ltd (with Mohamed Binladen Co., Saleh Bin Laden)
Shareholder, Jordan Islamic Bank
Vice Chairman Bank Al Jazira
Founder, Iqraa International Foundation
 
L Leo Glickman if you're liking for a place to discuss football with fellow supporters and New Yorkers then you're at the right place.
Do you also plan on marching against the World Cup? People are dying trying to make the stadiums and the pressure is immense on the workers and the conditions are horrible. So are you marching against the USMNT playing in those stadiums?
I appreciate people like yourself and your groups, if you make a difference that's great, I'll respect that
 
Also, you are more then welcome here. You're not breaking any rules, in fact we don't have any rules.
This forum is here for fans of the club to congregate and discuss anything and everything while getting to know each other.
I really do hope that the supporters group does grow to such large numbers and we have a say in matters. However, everything is in its infancy, things just really started rolling within the last few weeks.
As far as the 'front office' is concerned, I've talked on numerous occasions with team representatives. Look through twitter and you'll see how involved this team is with the fans. Again, I stress this is still in the infancy.
For you to not be proud of NYCFC because they are sister club to England is a bit absurd. The most iconic part of NY, The statue, is from France, should I hate it because of that?
Should I hate NY for being USA's largest hub for immigrants, for being founded by the Dutch?
NYC literally screams foreign, looking at census data, Queens as of 2006 has 48.5 percent of its residents being foreign born. Total, amongst all 5 boroughs 37% are foreign born.
Yet you frown on a club for being partially foreign born? To each their own brother.
 
I hijacked the thread? I was talking about the piece on Empire of Soccer.

It's funny, I'm the only one on here who is not anonymous, and you're inventing all these conspiracy theories. I even referred to myself, under my name, as a borough boy in the comments section. Hardly reluctant, I'm a proud Cosmos fan, and a proud NYC soccer fan, one who was working on this for years before any of you. While I wouldn't hurl the "plastic fan" epithet at you, you might want to think about why most people refer that way to you and your supporters. When for years pro soccer fans were here in NYC and one of you show up until the bright lights of Man City show up.

If you guys ever make it onto the pitch, (and I think that's still very much an "if"), we will have a rivalry. Right now, this about something much different. I'm a New Yorker, and I love New York, yet if things work out we will have two teams in MLS, one a cross marketing experiment for a can of soda, the other, the little sister club of a team from England. Shameful. All I wanted was to have a NYC MLS team to be proud of. We haven't gotten that yet.

Regardless, if you want to be a supporters club, and this is meant as friendly advice having been one of the founders of the Borough Boys -- a group that was here laying the groundwork for what turned out to be NYCFC-- you have to understand the realm of reality. And what you believe is in the "best interest" of the City, and what's possible, are two entirely different things. You guys ought to start thinking about how you can help, because the political will is not there for a soccer stadium right now.

I really did not insult or troll or hijack. I kept it civil. I'm sorry you've got to ascribe motivations to me to affirm yourself. My final word is this: How come you guys aren't talking to the front office? Why are you left here to speculate? If you're the fans, demand your place at the table. We have it. Sons of Ben have it. Seattle and Portland fans all have it. You should demand no less.

Best of luck. I won't post here anymore, but since I'm not afraid of revealing my identity, feel free to get in touch if you are so inclined. All the best.

And ps yes, as a St. Pauli fan, I do think sport and society do, and should, mix. That's the power of sports.

You're right. "Hijack" is a poor choice of words. Digressed perhaps?

I do have some questions:

Where was your supporters groups during the negotiations with MLS? Did they have a seat at the table? If you were helping lay the groundwork for an MLS berth for the Cosmos, what happened? This is not snarky, I'm genuinely curious.

In what universe is NYCFC not kicking off in 2015? When it was announced, MLS knew there would be no stadium in 2015 and that was with the optimistic hopes of the Queens stadium that fell through.
 
Hey
Hey guys,
My name is Nick Chavez, this is my first post on here, and I've been writing solely about NYCFC on SoccerNewsday.com since August of 2013. My column archive is here, in case you guys are interested, and my twitter account is @NickChavezMLS.

That aside, I just want to let you know that I've already written a response to this that should be out within the next 3 days, I just have to make sure it's not edited to hell. I think you'll all like it very much. ;)
hey nick! Welcome, glad to have you around our neck of the woods.
 
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Thanks Nick I really appreciate those comment! Feel free to share the forums with others as well!
Looking to make this the go-to community for supporters.
 
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Hey guys, my rebuttal to Zac Wassink's piece is here to read: http://latinosports.com/nycfc-grows-opposing-paper-fans-crumple/

An excerpt: "Nice try, sports fans. This is clearly a “fake outrage” strategy from rival club fans with an agenda to try to put off potential New York City FC fans. It’s a desperate attempt by insecure fans that fear for the future relevance of their team.

It reeks of someone who’s getting the sinking feeling that he bet on the wrong horse for so many years, only, as he fears, to be brushed aside for the seemingly more ambitious New York City Football Club. Why else would one be so bitter and on the offensive regarding a club that has yet to sign a single player?

If NYCFC fans are “plastic” (which, by the way, is such a mindless statement that you have to chalk it up to trolling), then I identify the many within the opposing side as “paper fans.” How fragile must you be? How little faith must you have in RBNY, and what makes it special, that your first and constant instinct is to attack the nascent NYCFC and those who are excited for its potential, most of whom are just beginning to take interest in MLS?"
 
So we got Cosmosfans pulling that old "Holier than thou" card.. :rolleyes:

The same Cosmos that are not only sponsored by Emirates, which happens to be an airline controlled by the Emir of Dubai who is also the Prime Minister of UAE, apart from being Sheikh Mansour father in law that is and didn´t Cosmos just return from a trip to Dubai where they where paying homage to this land of evil intent?
But the Cosmos ain´t owned by Emirates you might argue, no that is correct.. SELA owns Cosmos, a Saudi Arabian sports marketing and player agency without much assets really but financed by none other than *Sheikh Saleh Kamel who had to endure 16 lawsuits (but the cases was thrown out) from families of the 9/11 victims when it was discovered that a charity he had founded was listed as a donator to other charities that turned out to be controlled by Al-Qaeda
Take note that Bank Aljazira is the 2nd biggest shareholder in SELA as well.
And that is why Cosmos never have revealed to he public where the money to build Beaumont Stadium is supposed to be coming from.. A somewhat sensitive issue in NY post 9/11

*Born in 1941, Mecca, Saudi Arabia
CEO, Dallah Al Baraka (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia) - 3rd largest Saudi company
Chairman Arab Radio & Television (ART)
Founding member and shareholder, Al Shamal Islamic Bank (Khartoum, Sudan)
Partner, Tamlik Company Ltd (with Mohamed Binladen Co., Saleh Bin Laden)
Shareholder, Jordan Islamic Bank
Vice Chairman Bank Al Jazira
Founder, Iqraa International Foundation

Is there any evidence for this?

I tried looking for ages on anything related to Sela but I was unable to find jack about them in regards to who owns them exactly. Neither could Cosmos fans or fans of other NASL teams when I looked around various forums.

Also just to put out where I am coming from for the sake of honesty and being up front with you guys. I am an avid supporter of soccer in this area and have always wanted an MLS team in this area that I could get behind since it wasn't clicking with Red Bull. I was initially excited for NYCFC but was then turned off by the ownership for the human rights deal so I decided to hop on the only option left in the Cosmos thinking that I had done sufficient research on them. However if what you say is true then I had obviously didn't do enough in researching Sela and I will have reconsider and apologize to whatever NYCFC fans I have talked to for my hypocrisy.

I also want to say that I am posting on this thread not to say "Neener! Neener! Neener! You have a meanie owner! Hahaha!" I have no intentions of purposely smearing it in your face for the sake of scoring points. I just came here to find out facts and have an honest discussion.
 
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