Footy on TV (revenue, business, viewership)

Midas Mulligan

Registered
Elite Donor
Donor
Seasoned Supporter
Apr 29, 2014
10,614
26,558
353
NYC
We've talked about this topic in various places, so why not consolidate a bit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/ar...g-football-fans-are-a-5-billion-pound-problem

After a loss, soccer managers often present a litany of excuses in post-match TV interviews. Mastering the ritual is a key skill of the best coaches from Jose Mourinho to Pep Guardiola.

This season, Sky Plc has similarly had to explain why fewer people are watching the English Premier League than before, despite the crazy high cost of broadcast rights. One reason often offered up is that more and more people are watching video on smartphones, tablets, or computers and are therefore invisible in traditional ratings data.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seth and JayH
We've talked about this topic in various places, so why not consolidate a bit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/ar...g-football-fans-are-a-5-billion-pound-problem
I truly hope we someday get better tracking of digital viewers. We sometimes get some limited cherry-picked numbers from the networks, but we don't get them on a regular basis, and we often receive the data using different metrics than the traditional nielsen ratings. I do believe that digital viewership is really cutting into live event viewership, but have no idea of knowing to what extent. It would also be nice to get the data so we can track how digital viewership is growing in comparison.
 
I truly hope we someday get better tracking of digital viewers. We sometimes get some limited cherry-picked numbers from the networks, but we don't get them on a regular basis, and we often receive the data using different metrics than the traditional nielsen ratings. I do believe that digital viewership is really cutting into live event viewership, but have no idea of knowing to what extent. It would also be nice to get the data so we can track how digital viewership is growing in comparison.
Weird. Theoretically it's much easier to pull that data, too.
 
Weird. Theoretically it's much easier to pull that data, too.
It is, but the provider's have little incentive to provide daily numbers to the public like nielsen does with it's research. I'm sure advertisers have access to more data.
Also, because on digital platforms they have the ability to target viewers individually, the ratings for a particular event don't matter as much. Networks probably can sell ads by saying, for X dollars you can get this ad in front of Y unique viewers and Z total exposures fitting these demographics. Instead of selling packages based on projected ratings for a specific event, and then having to adjust if the ratings come in low, or leave money on the table if ratings are higher, you sell overall exposures and you can measure them perfectly and deliver them efficiently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Christopher Jee
Theoretically it's much easier to pull that data, too.
The problem is dumber and wider than streaming.

Despite the fact that every digital cable and/or satellite provider knows precisely what every box on their network is tuned to at every moment, and the fact that that data is far more accurate (with some anti-noise massaging) than anything Nielsen could possibly provide, the Industry still runs on Nielsen data. Why?

You'd think that the telecoms cos would be falling all over themselves to monetize this information, but they're not. Why isn't there a market for it? Because nobody wants accurate data. They want estimates and lies. It's not about actually knowing precisely how many people are watching your content, it's about being able to rely on the fuzziness of mushy Nielsen estimations so the great charade of ad buying can continue.
 
It is, but the provider's have little incentive to provide daily numbers to the public like nielsen does with it's research. I'm sure advertisers have access to more data.
Also, because on digital platforms they have the ability to target viewers individually, the ratings for a particular event don't matter as much. Networks probably can sell ads by saying, for X dollars you can get this ad in front of Y unique viewers and Z total exposures fitting these demographics. Instead of selling packages based on projected ratings for a specific event, and then having to adjust if the ratings come in low, or leave money on the table if ratings are higher, you sell overall exposures and you can measure them perfectly and deliver them efficiently.
Sold! J/K. Thanks for the breakdown. Very informative.
The problem is dumber and wider than streaming.

Despite the fact that every digital cable and/or satellite provider knows precisely what every box on their network is tuned to at every moment, and the fact that that data is far more accurate (with some anti-noise massaging) than anything Nielsen could possibly provide, the Industry still runs on Nielsen data. Why?

You'd think that the telecoms cos would be falling all over themselves to monetize this information, but they're not. Why isn't there a market for it? Because nobody wants accurate data. They want estimates and lies. It's not about actually knowing precisely how many people are watching your content, it's about being able to rely on the fuzziness of mushy Nielsen estimations so the great charade of ad buying can continue.
Seems like ad-buying for streaming services is higher value / more efficient market. And viewers are migrating towards on-demand / streaming too. Is it just a matter of time before it's the norm? I'm pretty clueless about this stuff, so apologies for the n00b posts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Midas Mulligan
Sold! J/K. Thanks for the breakdown. Very informative.

Seems like ad-buying for streaming services is higher value / more efficient market. And viewers are migrating towards on-demand / streaming too. Is it just a matter of time before it's the norm? I'm pretty clueless about this stuff, so apologies for the n00b posts.
The problem is dumber and wider than streaming.

Despite the fact that every digital cable and/or satellite provider knows precisely what every box on their network is tuned to at every moment, and the fact that that data is far more accurate (with some anti-noise massaging) than anything Nielsen could possibly provide, the Industry still runs on Nielsen data. Why?

You'd think that the telecoms cos would be falling all over themselves to monetize this information, but they're not. Why isn't there a market for it? Because nobody wants accurate data. They want estimates and lies. It's not about actually knowing precisely how many people are watching your content, it's about being able to rely on the fuzziness of mushy Nielsen estimations so the great charade of ad buying can continue.
Damn, guys. This is the problem I solve for a job. Guess what? You've identified some of the critical issues in far less time than many industry execs.

Where you're missing is the presumption that there is additional value to be gained via buying audiences. As of right now, there isn't.
 
Where you're missing is the presumption that there is additional value to be gained via buying audiences. As of right now, there isn't.
Could you expand that for me? I'm not really a business development type of person. Are the audiences doing the buying in that sentence or are they being bought?
 
Could you expand that for me? I'm not really a business development type of person. Are the audiences doing the buying in that sentence or are they being bought?
Buying audiences = specific targeting. As of right now, people overpay for that under false premises.

Can get into it more tomorrow. Bottom line, ad buying (and selling, for that matter) on the whole is dumb right now.
 
Buying audiences = specific targeting. As of right now, people overpay for that under false premises.

Can get into it more tomorrow. Bottom line, ad buying (and selling, for that matter) on the whole is dumb right now.
Ah, fair. I deal with overly optimistic estimates from paid acquisition / performance marketing people all the time, so I find that reasonable.

Content and traffic mix can make massive differences to down-funnel metrics though. Point being, do we have a viable comparison for targeted ad performance for online sports audiences?

ETA - no rush on replying. Really curious though, because this is one of those disruptions which feels long overdue.
 
ETA - no rush on replying. Really curious though, because this is one of those disruptions which feels long overdue.
In short, yep. And finally, after a long time of explaining to everyone why their current models are broken, people are starting to nod their heads instead of looking at us like we're crazy.

In short, we have a patent on bifurcated pricing.
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...live-champions-league-soccer-in-deal-with-fox

Midas Mulligan Midas Mulligan ^

I just went back and read the article linked to in the OP. Strikes me that when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you talked about this, you talked about the market for targeted advertising (and some other stuff that I don't have the jargon for). When I read that article, I thought about it as a product / UX problem. I don't have experience with Sky Go, but pretty much every other app that a cable company puts out is garbage.
 
Has anyone tried Fubo vs. Sling vs. DirecTV vs. Youtube TV vs. Vue vs. regular cable?

I can get info on available selection pretty easily, but I'm more interested in differentiators like reliability and user experience.

I've only tried Youtube TV so far. It's been decent and integrates well with Google Home and Chromecast well. Storage is unlimited. I underestimated how much I'd miss La Liga / Ray Hudson, though, particularly as the MLS season comes to a close.

I've thought about going with Sling but given that they're more of an old-school TV company vs. a new-school tech company I'm worried about their ability to build a good software product + service.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Midas Mulligan
Has anyone tried Fubo vs. Sling vs. DirecTV vs. Youtube TV vs. Vue vs. regular cable?

I can get info on available selection pretty easily, but I'm more interested in differentiators like reliability and user experience.

I've only tried Youtube TV so far. It's been decent and integrates well with Google Home and Chromecast well. Storage is unlimited. I underestimated how much I'd miss La Liga / Ray Hudson, though, particularly as the MLS season comes to a close.

I've thought about going with Sling but given that they're more of an old-school TV company vs. a new-school tech company I'm worried about their ability to build a good software product + service.
Just got SlingTV a month or so ago, and I have no real complaints yet. I don't have some basic channels since I got the orange version, but I have access to FS1 and FS2 which is all I need for most of MLS and Bundesliga, as well as NBCSN for Premier League. $25 a month is on the cheaper end of streaming TV, and I have everything I need when it comes to what I want to watch live.

I have no idea what you enjoy watching on a day to day basis, so I can't really help too much as I don't know what you're looking for in your provider. But, I think SlingTV (Orange) has been fine for me thus far and I don't have any complaints yet.
 
Has anyone tried Fubo vs. Sling vs. DirecTV vs. Youtube TV vs. Vue vs. regular cable?

I can get info on available selection pretty easily, but I'm more interested in differentiators like reliability and user experience.

I've only tried Youtube TV so far. It's been decent and integrates well with Google Home and Chromecast well. Storage is unlimited. I underestimated how much I'd miss La Liga / Ray Hudson, though, particularly as the MLS season comes to a close.

I've thought about going with Sling but given that they're more of an old-school TV company vs. a new-school tech company I'm worried about their ability to build a good software product + service.

i keep hearing fubo has problems when streaming ( but not sure as i dont have first hand experience) i think people had trouble during the WCQ

i have sling and yes you are correct in terms of innovative stuff they dont have that because its just channel you stream it and thats it, i personally like it since thats kind of all that i want. service is fine for me ( i have blue and orange). you get some on demand stuff too

in terms of movies HBO stuff i dont know since i dont really watch much of that and i dont pay that extra fee for them.
 
Just got SlingTV a month or so ago, and I have no real complaints yet. I don't have some basic channels since I got the orange version, but I have access to FS1 and FS2 which is all I need for most of MLS and Bundesliga, as well as NBCSN for Premier League. $25 a month is on the cheaper end of streaming TV, and I have everything I need when it comes to what I want to watch live.

I have no idea what you enjoy watching on a day to day basis, so I can't really help too much as I don't know what you're looking for in your provider. But, I think SlingTV (Orange) has been fine for me thus far and I don't have any complaints yet.
i keep hearing fubo has problems when streaming ( but not sure as i dont have first hand experience) i think people had trouble during the WCQ

i have sling and yes you are correct in terms of innovative stuff they dont have that because its just channel you stream it and thats it, i personally like it since thats kind of all that i want. service is fine for me ( i have blue and orange). you get some on demand stuff too

in terms of movies HBO stuff i dont know since i dont really watch much of that and i dont pay that extra fee for them.


I have Sling Blue & Orange. I like it, but my big issue is you can't DVR any disney programing (ESPN), or big Fox. So if a match is on one of those channels, you really have to catch it live. FS1 & YES DVR just fine.
 
Has anyone tried Fubo vs. Sling vs. DirecTV vs. Youtube TV vs. Vue vs. regular cable?

I can get info on available selection pretty easily, but I'm more interested in differentiators like reliability and user experience.

I've only tried Youtube TV so far. It's been decent and integrates well with Google Home and Chromecast well. Storage is unlimited. I underestimated how much I'd miss La Liga / Ray Hudson, though, particularly as the MLS season comes to a close.

I've thought about going with Sling but given that they're more of an old-school TV company vs. a new-school tech company I'm worried about their ability to build a good software product + service.

From personal experience Fubo is probably the most expensive option, but you definitely get what you pay for with it. Fubo has basically every sport you want to watch and I've found the website to be basically bulletproof as long as you have a steady connection. It could use some minor tweaks for unstable connections, but thats really a minor foible.

Can't recommend Fubo enough, its got amazing selection and is basically hassle free.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Christopher Jee
maybe people watch the premier league less because people realized more than half the league is shit ;)