Jersey postmatch

[sbrylski]

most of those players worked out by chance and wouldn't deserve DP money to begin with.

Maxi was a great player for Atalanta, and to bring someone like him you have to pay more. and he's been doing very well for us regardless of what he's being paid. hes paid to be one of our best players, and thats what he is doing

Adi- he played like 30 games since 2011 before joining portland... they're just diamonds in the rough.
josef martinez played a good amount but only scored 7 goals in 3 years....

the only player id consider giving DP money to would be Lodeiro from that list only because he played on the uruguay national team and was always pretty solid...
any of those players could've easily turned into a calle or alvarez and just been a waste.

"Maxi 'was' a great player for Atalanta, and 'to bring someone like him you have to pay more.'"

Maxi was sitting on a bench in Mexico when we signed him. With Atalanta, he was getting around 11 goals+assists per year (goal/assist in every third game). He was competitive in Italy, but great?

And my whole point is that you don't have to pay more to bring in someone like him. You just need to scout halfway decently. If you want a better comp, look at Victor Vazquez. Same age as Maxi, same position. He was playing in a worse league (Belgium) but with better results (goal/assist in every other game). Went to Mexico for a year, then to MLS.

There are a number of good examples of Maxi-esque talent at TAM prices in this league. There are multiple examples of lower-cost DPs that outperform him.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, in fact he's a pretty good fit on our roster. It's just not great roster management to slot his caliber in the DP spot.

 

[Gotham Gator]

This may be true, but you have to take the bitter with the sweet. Maybe Maxi is not quite DP quality (not sure I agree), but Ring is absolutely killing it for us this year as a TAM player and Herrera for less than that. Sometimes, things pay off brilliantly and sometimes they do a little, and sometimes they are a bust. You need to look at the whole project to get a sense of it. I think our scouting does well for us and is getting better.

Remember, we don't have the pipe of homegrown talent that helps sustain the other top teams. Everything we have is through scouting.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Ulrich - fix your spoiler, man. come on, that's mean.

 

[SanBartG]

"Maxi 'was' a great player for Atalanta, and 'to bring someone like him you have to pay more.'"

Maxi was sitting on a bench in Mexico when we signed him. With Atalanta, he was getting around 11 goals+assists per year (goal/assist in every third game). He was competitive in Italy, but great?

And my whole point is that you don't have to pay more to bring in someone like him. You just need to scout halfway decently. If you want a better comp, look at Victor Vazquez. Same age as Maxi, same position. He was playing in a worse league (Belgium) but with better results (goal/assist in every other game). Went to Mexico for a year, then to MLS.

There are a number of good examples of Maxi-esque talent at TAM prices in this league. There are multiple examples of lower-cost DPs that outperform him.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, in fact he's a pretty good fit on our roster. It's just not great roster management to slot his caliber in the DP spot.

Ditto on scouting.

Maxi has been a great addition but we won't always be that lucky.

Instead of paying more money for an older Serie A player, we could find younger, cheaper Serie B players that are up and coming. Yes, some in lower leagues would rather hold out hope of moving up in a European league but I have to believe a good number would welcome the chance to move to the US and play in a growing league.

 

[Mario]

"Maxi 'was' a great player for Atalanta, and 'to bring someone like him you have to pay more.'"

Maxi was sitting on a bench in Mexico when we signed him. With Atalanta, he was getting around 11 goals+assists per year (goal/assist in every third game). He was competitive in Italy, but great?

And my whole point is that you don't have to pay more to bring in someone like him. You just need to scout halfway decently. If you want a better comp, look at Victor Vazquez. Same age as Maxi, same position. He was playing in a worse league (Belgium) but with better results (goal/assist in every other game). Went to Mexico for a year, then to MLS.

There are a number of good examples of Maxi-esque talent at TAM prices in this league. There are multiple examples of lower-cost DPs that outperform him.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, in fact he's a pretty good fit on our roster. It's just not great roster management to slot his caliber in the DP spot.

he was actually great with atalanta. he was a 10 playing in Serie A... i dont know what you expect from him
He made players like German Denis and a top goalscorer. and he was a main reason why they finished top of the table more often than not.
He wasn't a star like pogba was for juve or something like that, but he was a very good player given his environment and basically took them above and beyond expectations.

theres lower cost options everywhere, doesn't mean they'll succeed. doesn't mean they want to play in the mls, a less desirable league where if the money isn't right, why play with a bunch of idiots like lopez and white when youre playing in a better league or an environment that suits you.

how many young players want to be a DP in the MLS when they can try their luck elsewhere?

 

[SanBartG]

he was actually great with atalanta. he was a 10 playing in Serie A... i dont know what you expect from him
He made players like German Denis and a top goalscorer. and he was a main reason why they finished top of the table more often than not.
He wasn't a star like pogba was for juve or something like that, but he was a very good player given his environment and basically took them above and beyond expectations.

theres lower cost options everywhere, doesn't mean they'll succeed. doesn't mean they want to play in the mls, a less desirable league where if the money isn't right, why play with a bunch of idiots like lopez and white when youre playing in a better league or an environment that suits you.

how many young players want to be a DP in the MLS when they can try their luck elsewhere?

Fair point but some people may be willing to take the sure thing instead of waiting and hoping to move up in the Euro league. I'm not knocking Maxi. The guy has been great for us. I'm just making a larger point.

And there's never a guarantee that any player will be successful regardless of where they were. The examples are too numerous to recount. But I'd rather gamble with fewer dollars to the extent we can.

 

[Fake Jew]

"Maxi 'was' a great player for Atalanta, and 'to bring someone like him you have to pay more.'"

Maxi was sitting on a bench in Mexico when we signed him. With Atalanta, he was getting around 11 goals+assists per year (goal/assist in every third game). He was competitive in Italy, but great?

And my whole point is that you don't have to pay more to bring in someone like him. You just need to scout halfway decently. If you want a better comp, look at Victor Vazquez. Same age as Maxi, same position. He was playing in a worse league (Belgium) but with better results (goal/assist in every other game). Went to Mexico for a year, then to MLS.

There are a number of good examples of Maxi-esque talent at TAM prices in this league. There are multiple examples of lower-cost DPs that outperform him.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, in fact he's a pretty good fit on our roster. It's just not great roster management to slot his caliber in the DP spot.

I'm going to reply to this because I'm sick of this being posted. Maxi was fucked in Mexico. He was brought into Leon to be the main man and than the manager who brought him in was fired. The next two managers did not use a number 10 in their formation leaving Maxi on the bench. According to my friend who's a Leon fan he was probably the best player on the team even though he was on the bench but I don't know if that's true or not because I've never really watched them.

 

[Joseph Bianco]

finally caught up on all the comments on this thread and really need to call out the hypocrisy from some of you.

So quick to judge Altidore for embellishing(diving) saying it wasnt a PK but then hoping one of our own players does it. Its embarrassing and has no place in the sport.

 

[Joseph Bianco]

Great picture from the NYCFC Nation article on the game.

http://thenycfcnation.com/2017/08/post-game-red-bulls-8-6-17/

ETA: I hadn't noticed this before I saw the photo, but look who is running behind the play. Sal Zizzo. WTF is a center back doing way up the pitch behind our striker? If you look at the replay, Brillant's throw in actually bounces over Zizzo's head at which point Villa latches on and starts his run.

 

[Ulrich]

finally caught up on all the comments on this thread and really need to call out the hypocrisy from some of you.

So quick to judge Altidore for embellishing(diving) saying it wasnt a PK but then hoping one of our own players does it. Its embarrassing and has no place in the sport.

There's a big big difference when Altidore, a big and sturdy player, always takes a tumble when blown on and when Jack, much smaller and more nimble, actually goes to turf - Jack's the most ethical player on the team regarding trying to stay on his feet. Or did you mean Lewis, who had his arm tugged back and should have had the foul called, but didn't, and people wished he wasn't so eager to stay on his feet at all costs?

What's embarrassing is reading a blanket statement post slamming unnamed people in general.

 

[Joseph Bianco]

There's a big big difference when Altidore, a big and sturdy player, always takes a tumble when blown on and when Jack, much smaller and more nimble, actually goes to turf - Jack's the most ethical player on the team regarding trying to stay on his feet. Or did you mean Lewis, who had his arm tugged back and should have had the foul called, but didn't, and people wished he wasn't so eager to stay on his feet at all costs?

What's embarrassing is reading a blanket statement post slamming unnamed people in general.

supporting embellishing and diving is embarrassing and you can make comments like this because u just dont like me all you want but that doesnt change the fact that it ruins the sport. Anyone who says he should have fell to the ground when he didnt actually fall to the ground is supporting that he takes a dive.

 

[Ulrich]

supporting embellishing and diving is embarrassing and you can make comments like this because u just dont like me all you want but that doesnt change the fact that it ruins the sport. Anyone who says he should have fell to the ground when he didnt actually fall to the ground is supporting that he takes a dive.

Actually no. It's not a dive when a foul is committed.

 

[Joseph Bianco]

Actually no. It's not a dive when a foul is committed.

its embellishing and considered a dive, you cant fall to the ground just because. you can get fouled and still take a dive

 

[Seth]

supporting embellishing and diving is embarrassing and you can make comments like this because u just dont like me all you want but that doesnt change the fact that it ruins the sport. Anyone who says he should have fell to the ground when he didnt actually fall to the ground is supporting that he takes a dive.

There's a big difference between diving and going to ground under pressure. If you're a defender and yell, "Yo, Jozy" and he hits the turf that's a dive, but if you're Harrison and your getting abused but still manage to somehow stay on your feet despite it all, well, maybe it's OK to wind up on the grass. Nothing wrong with staying on your feet, but if a player is knocking you around and all 395 other players in the league would have been sent flying by now perhaps you don't have to be a hero and stay up.

Just sayin'

 

[Joseph Bianco]

There's a big difference between diving and going to ground under pressure. If you're a defender and yell, "Yo, Jozy" and he hits the turf that's a dive, but if you're Harrison and your getting abused but still manage to somehow stay on your feet despite it all, well, maybe it's OK to wind up on the grass. Nothing wrong with staying on your feet, but if a player is knocking you around and all 395 other players in the league would have been sent flying by now perhaps you don't have to be a hero and stay up.

Just sayin'

Youre still supporting he goes down on contact, i respect him trying to stay on his feet and finish his play. Jozy had our defender's (i dont remember who's it was) hand pushing down on his shoulder. You seem to want to make excuses for some and not others.

 

[Mario]

There's a big difference between diving and going to ground under pressure. If you're a defender and yell, "Yo, Jozy" and he hits the turf that's a dive, but if you're Harrison and your getting abused but still manage to somehow stay on your feet despite it all, well, maybe it's OK to wind up on the grass. Nothing wrong with staying on your feet, but if a player is knocking you around and all 395 other players in the league would have been sent flying by now perhaps you don't have to be a hero and stay up.

Just sayin'

harrison was not getting abused tho. he was 1v1, took a poor touch onto his right foot for god knows why, then falls with minimal contact, in a contact sport.

 

[Joseph Bianco]

harrison was not getting abused tho. he was 1v1, took a poor touch onto his right foot for god knows why, then falls with minimal contact, in a contact sport.

It was basically the same concept on the Lewis one..they both had their arms out to shield off the opposing player, there was some contact but there was no egregious foul there. If he goes to ground its because he took a dive.

 

[Mario]

lewis was off balance when he fell. there was jostling, but he fell like gilardino did back in the day for milan.

 

[Seth]

Youre still supporting he goes down on contact, i respect him trying to stay on his feet and finish his play. Jozy had our defender's (i dont remember who's it was) hand pushing down on his shoulder. You seem to want to make excuses for some and not others.

I wasn't talking about any specific plays, nor am I making excuses. It's one thing to look at a defender in front of you and imitate a one-and-a-half gainer to try to get a call when his shoulder touches yours. It's quite another when the guy behind you has a fistful of your shirt and the guy next to you is grabbing your elbow. In that situation nobody's going to doubt your veracity if you hit the ground.

harrison was not getting abused tho. he was 1v1, took a poor touch onto his right foot for god knows why, then falls with minimal contact, in a contact sport.

And that wasn't called a foul if I remember it right. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about his almost inhuman ability to keep going when everyone else in the universe would already be on the ground. And I love him for that as he's just an incredible athlete who's amazing to watch. What I'm saying is that if someone's trying to take you down it's OK to let them sometimes, especially if you're not going to be able to complete the play anyway.

It's not a dive or a bad play if you go down when you're fighting it out with a defender and they're trying to take you down. They're trying to commit a foul and get away with it, which is almost their job, and sometimes it's OK to actually let them commit the foul. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Mario]

I wasn't talking about any specific plays, nor am I making excuses. It's one thing to look at a defender in front of you and imitate a one-and-a-half gainer to try to get a call when his shoulder touches yours. It's quite another when the guy behind you has a fistful of your shirt and the guy next to you is grabbing your elbow. In that situation nobody's going to doubt your veracity if you hit the ground.

And that wasn't called a foul if I remember it right. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about his almost inhuman ability to keep going when everyone else in the universe would already be on the ground. And I love him for that as he's just an incredible athlete who's amazing to watch. What I'm saying is that if someone's trying to take you down it's OK to let them sometimes, especially if you're not going to be able to complete the play anyway.

It's not a dive or a bad play if you go down when you're fighting it out with a defender and they're trying to take you down. They're trying to commit a foul and get away with it, which is almost their job, and sometimes it's OK to actually let them commit the foul. That's all I'm saying.

my bad, idk which one youre talking about then