Man City Discussion

[Ulrich]

As long as they bring Jack and Mix.

Unfortunately, Mix would probably once again occupy his same seat in the stands next to his agent.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

DeBruyne is the best player in Premier League. Don’t @ me.

 

[Taurus]

DeBruyne is the best player in Premier League. Don’t @ me.

And, he happens to be better than Coutinho.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

DeBruyne is the best player in Premier League. Don’t @ me.

 

[Christopher Jee]

I probably watch Liverpool half as much as I watch City, but I don't know if Salah can do it against entrenched, settled defenses, the likes of which De Bruyne is pulling apart every week. I love Salah, but he mostly excels in the fray. Liverpool as a whole, really.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I probably watch Liverpool half as much as I watch City, but I don't know if Salah can do it against entrenched, settled defenses, the likes of which De Bruyne is pulling apart every week. I love Salah, but he mostly excels in the fray. Liverpool as a whole, really.

Yeah, you really don’t watch if that’s what you think.

Frankly, don’t care to argue this point. Just busting Dan’s balls anyway.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/962364529517780993

Love this stat. All the times he cuts the defense with a ball to Sane/Sterling and they then play a ball into Aguero or someone else in the box.

Sorry Midas Mulligan but you’ll see come end of season when KDB is crowned POTY that he’s as good as they come in the league right now. That’s taking nothing away from Salah.
Kane leads the league in goals and I’d put Salah ahead of him as well. KDB contributes in so many more ways. He’s the main reason City are running away with it.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/962364529517780993

Love this stat. All the times he cuts the defense with a ball to Sane/Sterling and they then play a ball into Aguero or someone else in the box.

Sorry Midas Mulligan but you’ll see come end of season when KDB is crowned POTY that he’s as good as they come in the league right now. That’s taking nothing away from Salah.
Kane leads the league in goals and I’d put Salah ahead of him as well. KDB contributes in so many more ways. He’s the main reason City are running away with it.

I don't disagree with any of the praise KDB gets.

I suspect he'll win that award given his team performance. I guess Salah will be second. But if he hits 25 goals and 10 assists (would be slowing down for him), it might be close. What if it's 30? It is plausible .

 

[Ulrich]

https://twitter.com/x/status/962364529517780993

Love this stat. All the times he cuts the defense with a ball to Sane/Sterling and they then play a ball into Aguero or someone else in the box.

Sorry Midas Mulligan but you’ll see come end of season when KDB is crowned POTY that he’s as good as they come in the league right now. That’s taking nothing away from Salah.
Kane leads the league in goals and I’d put Salah ahead of him as well. KDB contributes in so many more ways. He’s the main reason City are running away with it.

What’s absolutely hilarious about this chart, and it has nothing to do with the Salah/KdB debate, is that the X-line of the graph is the very same Hockey Assist that so many on this board like to dismiss. And yet it’s good enough to make a point about KdB.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

What’s absolutely hilarious about this chart, and it has nothing to do with the Salah/KdB debate, is that the X-line of the graph is the very same Hockey Assist that so many on this board like to dismiss. And yet it’s good enough to make a point about KdB.

I wouldn’t want it to be an actual stat but it shows how much of a creator he is.

 

[Christopher Jee]

I wouldn’t want it to be an actual stat but it shows how much of a creator he is.

We dismiss second assists?

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

We dismiss second assists?

Are you asking me? I didn’t make that claim.

 

[Falastur]

We dismiss second assists?

I mean, second assists aren't really recognised as a serious stat in football usually. I'd never even heard of them before I read about the idea on this forum.

Dan is right, though, in that they are occasionally useful to demonstrate a point such as about KdB's influence.

 

[Christopher Jee]

What’s absolutely hilarious about this chart, and it has nothing to do with the Salah/KdB debate, is that the X-line of the graph is the very same Hockey Assist that so many on this board like to dismiss. And yet it’s good enough to make a point about KdB.

NYCFC_Dan meant to quote this post^

Falastur agree it's not a traditionally recognized stat but I think it's an easy stat to measure which delivers relatively high value insight, particularly for assessing deeper-lying players.

I think the thing that bugs people is not secondary assists but their conflation with primary assists. For instance I think MLS counts both as the same. It's not too much additional noise to me to quote a G / A figure vs a G / PA / SA figure. Or G / A / A' if you will.

 

[SoupInNYC]

I mean, second assists aren't really recognised as a serious stat in football usually. I'd never even heard of them before I read about the idea on this forum.

Dan is right, though, in that they are occasionally useful to demonstrate a point such as about KdB's influence.

Secondary assists definitely can do that.

Overall, I wouldn't necessarily argue against the use of secondary assists, but really just caveat assists in general (both primary and secondary) as some of them are such run of the mill passes.

Take for example, last year's match at LAG. Jonathan Lewis had the great run down the sideline, into the center, and that great goal from outside the box. And Sweat was given an assist for that.

(Don't mean any of this to discredit the stats for KdB. The way he plays through balls, his secondary assists are definitely quite worthy and impactful. And the eye test alone confirms a lot of that)

 

[SoupInNYC]

I think the thing that bugs people is not secondary assists but their conflation with primary assists. For instance I think MLS counts both as the same.

We posted at the same time, but in a follow up to this and my post, I will again point to the actual quality of the primary and/or secondary assist. I'm ok with a secondary assist that is counting from a lovely through ball where the winger just needs to one-time it into the box to the striker.

There's no easy way to parse all of that out subjectively when awarding assists or secondary assists, so kind of one of those things you have to try and see through.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Secondary assists definitely can do that.

Overall, I wouldn't necessarily argue against the use of secondary assists, but really just caveat assists in general (both primary and secondary) as some of them are such run of the mill passes.

Take for example, last year's match at LAG. Jonathan Lewis had the great run down the sideline, into the center, and that great goal from outside the box. And Sweat was given an assist for that.

(Don't mean any of this to discredit the stats for KdB. The way he plays through balls, his secondary assists are definitely quite worthy and impactful. And the eye test alone confirms a lot of that)

Yeah no summary stat tells the whole story. That's why they're called summary stats. I think the thing to look for is the ratio of analytical insight to effort. As an aside, I'm really excited about computer vision and football analytics because the effort side of that ratio is likely to change entirely.

 

[Christopher Jee]

We posted at the same time, but in a follow up to this and my post, I will again point to the actual quality of the primary and/or secondary assist. I'm ok with a secondary assist that is counting from a lovely through ball where the winger just needs to one-time it into the box to the striker.

There's no easy way to parse all of that out subjectively when awarding assists or secondary assists, so kind of one of those things you have to try and see through.

Yeah, I think those are outliers tho. And likely to be statistically insignificant over many samples. And if not then it's not too much effort to look into a few outliers. Maybe find a new stat that blows analysis wide open again.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

DeBruyne is the best player in Premier League. Don’t @ me.

I probably watch Liverpool half as much as I watch City, but I don't know if Salah can do it against entrenched, settled defenses, the likes of which De Bruyne is pulling apart every week. I love Salah, but he mostly excels in the fray. Liverpool as a whole, really.

Still can’t believe you said that. Still think you weren’t watching. Still think Salah is proabably the best player in the league this year.

Thanks, Chelsea. Well done, you shit birds.

Yeah, you really don’t watch if that’s what you think.

Frankly, don’t care to argue this point. Just busting Dan’s balls anyway.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I should totally reorganize the post above, but I’ll just apologize for not doing so. Important point of messing with NYCFC_Dan and Christopher Jee accomplished.