Pro/Rel will destroy the casual soccer fan. Oh, our city's team isn't in the top division anymore. Don't give a fuck. Forgets to care when they are back.
MLS rejects media rights deal tied to Pro/Rel
- Thread starter LeeNYCFC
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Pro/Rel will destroy the casual soccer fan. Oh, our city's team isn't in the top division anymore. Don't give a fuck. Forgets to care when they are back.
If that was the case, then why are teams like FC Cincinatti or Sacramento in 2nd tier leagues selling out regularly? It's a repeated false narrative. If the support is there, they will regardless of level.
I wouldn't call those fans casual.
But more importantly, they are selling out because they want to show they are ready for the top division.
I am adamantly against pro/rel right now or in the next 10 years. 20 years out? Perhaps the demand will be there at that point to support it.
But then the massive obstacle is its extremely unlikely the owners would allow their investments to be able to take such massive hits to their value.
Pro/rel is definitely intriguing, but I'm just not sure it will ever make sense here.
But then the massive obstacle is its extremely unlikely the owners would allow their investments to be able to take such massive hits to their value.
Pro/rel is definitely intriguing, but I'm just not sure it will ever make sense here.
I think those cities are doing well with hopes that they will impress MLS.
If MLS flat out told them they will never be in, what would their attendance look like?
I am sure they won't die but can't imagine they will do that great.
Fair, and I guess it is to be expected you are going to lose some support/attendance when you fall to the second division. Without looking at more than a few yoyo clubs, attendances rise and fall by a few thousand depending on the level you're in
In my opinion, I think it makes an assumption that the American is a less intelligent/loyal sports fan that they are just gonna give up on a team because they fall to the lower level for a season, just because there are no other pro-rel sports in the US. Maybe that is the case? I think either side has valid points.
This is also a factor not calculated into my post. But (and I could be wrong as I don't keep up on the expansion rumors thread enough) haven't Sacramento to a certain extent kinda had their MLS hopes crushed for the time being with that whole bid fiasco from a different owner? They've sold out every home match this year regardless. And I realize, I am talking in very small sample sizes, but unfortunately, that is all US soccer can provide right now.
Who is going to build the stadiums? MLS and its owners almost never build without public subsidies. The biggest puzzle on the expansion front is that some of the best team candidates are in locations where the city won't pony up the subsidies. If cities won't pay for MLS stadiums as it is, how do you get them to subsidize a 20k stadium for a team that might make it to MLS, and if it gets there might stay up. Who is going to pay the debt service on a 20k seat stadium when there's no national TV money and 4k people attending every game? Or will we have first division teams in 12k stadiums and smaller? What owner would pay to build even an 18k stadium knowing the team can be relegated? CFG? They can't build one as it is.
Some tech entrepreneur with more money than sense started a 4th division semi-pro soccer team in Kingston NY (pop. 23,210) and can't shut up about pro/rel. His stadium seats 1,500. The entire county has 182k people. He gets his wish. They move up the pyramid, and he builds a 18k stadium. Then they get relegated and there's an 18k stadium in Kingston NY for a minor league team.
Pro/rel advocates, including the ones who say, not now, but some time in the future, have to stop being delusional. Let's say we have 3 divisions with 20+ teams each. You're telling me we can build another 40 or so 18-25k seat stadiums in this country of which 40 or so will be underutilized most of the time? Who is building them? Where? MLS has tried to build in NYC, Boston and Miami for 20 years and accomplished bupkis. Or explain how we can have 1st division world class soccer with stadiums of 12k capacity. Or sharing with college football, or minor league baseball.
Some tech entrepreneur with more money than sense started a 4th division semi-pro soccer team in Kingston NY (pop. 23,210) and can't shut up about pro/rel. His stadium seats 1,500. The entire county has 182k people. He gets his wish. They move up the pyramid, and he builds a 18k stadium. Then they get relegated and there's an 18k stadium in Kingston NY for a minor league team.
Pro/rel advocates, including the ones who say, not now, but some time in the future, have to stop being delusional. Let's say we have 3 divisions with 20+ teams each. You're telling me we can build another 40 or so 18-25k seat stadiums in this country of which 40 or so will be underutilized most of the time? Who is building them? Where? MLS has tried to build in NYC, Boston and Miami for 20 years and accomplished bupkis. Or explain how we can have 1st division world class soccer with stadiums of 12k capacity. Or sharing with college football, or minor league baseball.
All that's missing from your rant is, "and get the hell off my lawn!"
You know what they will be arguing for then. "MLS should get rid of stadium requirements or make it smaller."
No stadiums should be publicly subsidized. But even then, it would require teams to be in a market that would generate enough revenue to offset the cost of building it.
At this point only MLS caliber markets can do that.
Also worth mentioning that this country already has an over 100-year old cup competition that the lower division clubs are already competing in that is unlike anything that exists in the "big 4" sports, and it's being marketed and delivered in a way that would be outstripped by most tech-savvy youths.
So maybe if somebody with $4 billion to wave around wants to raise the profile of non-MLS soccer, he could bring people to the table on raising the profile of a tournament that gives lower division clubs the chance for national exposure, that currently has an overall prize structure totaling less than half a million dollars for competing clubs.
So maybe if somebody with $4 billion to wave around wants to raise the profile of non-MLS soccer, he could bring people to the table on raising the profile of a tournament that gives lower division clubs the chance for national exposure, that currently has an overall prize structure totaling less than half a million dollars for competing clubs.
US Soccer makes the DI requirements. They set the requirements in part to ward off NASL's DI ambitions.
If Silva really wants to play in the top division, he should just buy Beckham out.
If that is true, and I think it is, then why not consider the complement of your assertion - that the lack of pro/rel (or if you like, the high bar for promotion) is dampening interest in the game for some markets?
It's really a false dichotomy anyway, and one that makes it easy to forget that really it's conditional pro vs. unconditional pro-rel. La Liga has conditional pro and unconditional rel. I'm not close enough to the discussion to know if what I'm saying is redundant, but I would be surprised if we are incrementally trending towards something similar. For example, I could imagine expanding to 30-ish teams and having two different knock out competitions a la Europa Cup and Champions League.
I guess the advantage of being more explicit about the pyramid being conditional pro is that it would maybe remove what I perceive to be the dampening of interest for lower league teams.
Possibly worth mentioning that by 2022 the US will have already had experience of promotion and relegation in the form of USL2 and the NISL.
That said, the longer I follow US football the more I come to appreciate that pro/rel is unlikely to ever happen.
That said, the longer I follow US football the more I come to appreciate that pro/rel is unlikely to ever happen.
Well he tried to include a print out of that but the freaking printer wouldn't work.
Long read by a UCLA law professor on the strength of the CAS submission by Miami and Kingston
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID3028212_code109222.pdf?abstractid=3028212&mirid=1
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID3028212_code109222.pdf?abstractid=3028212&mirid=1
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