MLS Week 11 - 2018

It's the clown show with those fans sometimes. How can they be complaining about that offside call on Martinez?
To be fair I think they have an argument, if only because the most recent "clarification" of the deflection/deliberate play rule is a ridiculous mess. It used to be clear. To negate offsides, an intervening defender had to control and handle the ball. They loosened it up and now it's like the NFL catch rule. The official videos are no help.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbym...hts-subjectivity-of-offside-law/#cdc5638222d9
http://www.law-11.com/delib-play--deflection

Point is, the Atlanta fans aren't necessarily right, but that call could go either way and I don't think anybody would know if it's right or not. So there are always grounds to complain, which is the worst kind of rule. OTOH, my low opinion of whining about calls is not a secret, and doing so after your team was gifted 7 PKs in 8 games is inexcusable.
 
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To be fair I think they have an argument, if only because the most recent "clarification" of the deflection/deliberate play rule is a ridiculous mess. It used to be clear. To negate offsides, an intervening defender had to control and handle the ball. They loosened it up and now it's like the NFL catch rule. The official videos are no help.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbym...hts-subjectivity-of-offside-law/#cdc5638222d9
http://www.law-11.com/delib-play--deflection

Point is, the Atlanta fans aren't necessarily right, but that call could go either way and I don't think anybody would know if it's right or not. So there are always grounds to complain, which is the worst kind of rule. OTOH, my low opinion of whining about calls is not a secret, and doing so after your team was gifted 7 PKs in 8 games is inexcusable.
Wait, so if its deflected at all does that matter? What exactly was it changed to?

In the TFC game last night, on Toronto's goal, Giovinco looked like he may have been offsides (they never showed a slow enough replay or I wasn't paying enough attention to it) on the initial ball that came through that he headed across for the assist on the goal. However, the announcers just said that since the ball was deflected (which it was, barely) that that negated the offsides.
 
To be fair I think they have an argument, if only because the most recent "clarification" of the deflection/deliberate play rule is a ridiculous mess. It used to be clear. To negate offsides, an intervening defender had to control and handle the ball. They loosened it up and now it's like the NFL catch rule. The official videos are no help.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbym...hts-subjectivity-of-offside-law/#cdc5638222d9
http://www.law-11.com/delib-play--deflection

Point is, the Atlanta fans aren't necessarily right, but that call could go either way and I don't think anybody would know if it's right or not. So there are always grounds to complain, which is the worst kind of rule. OTOH, my low opinion of whining about calls is not a secret, and doing so after your team was gifted 7 PKs in 8 games is inexcusable.

The Law 11 link is actually somewhat helpful. I agree the rule is muddled. However, if a player just sticks out his foot to block a pass and it ends up going more or less where the passer intended, I don't think that's a deliberate play. It is a reaction play as described in that table.

I just analogize to the other place in the rules that you see the "deliberately play" language, which is deciding when a goalkeeper can pick up a ball that last touched a teammate's leg. I don't think there is any doubt that Meilia could have picked up that ball after it struck Medranda's foot. He didn't deliberately play it because he wasn't trying to semd it in any particular direction.

Wait, so if its deflected at all does that matter? What exactly was it changed to?

In the TFC game last night, on Toronto's goal, Giovinco looked like he may have been offsides (they never showed a slow enough replay or I wasn't paying enough attention to it) on the initial ball that came through that he headed across for the assist on the goal. However, the announcers just said that since the ball was deflected (which it was, barely) that that negated the offsides.

Announcers were wrong in my estimation. I am not even sure the defender moved his leg in that case.
 
Announcers were wrong in my estimation. I am not even sure the defender moved his leg in that case.
I thought the announcers were wrong. It didn't seem right to me. Now, I'm not exactly certain whether Seba was offsides or not, I'd have to go back and closely look, but their comments did seem odd to me to just immediately dismiss it.
 
I thought the announcers were wrong. It didn't seem right to me. Now, I'm not exactly certain whether Seba was offsides or not, I'd have to go back and closely look, but their comments did seem odd to me to just immediately dismiss it.
For what it's worth, the Twitterati, led by Soccer Photogrammetry, said he was on.
 
Wait, so if its deflected at all does that matter? What exactly was it changed to?

In the TFC game last night, on Toronto's goal, Giovinco looked like he may have been offsides (they never showed a slow enough replay or I wasn't paying enough attention to it) on the initial ball that came through that he headed across for the assist on the goal. However, the announcers just said that since the ball was deflected (which it was, barely) that that negated the offsides.

Clear case 1: Defender deflects ball without even being aware of it, or without moving towards it, and it goes to player who was in offside position. Deflection. Violation.
Clear case 2: Defender traps ball sent towards goal by offensive player. Defender sends it back to his keeper and a player who was in offside position when ball was first sent towards defender intercepts it. Deliberate act. No violation.

Unclear cases: Ball sent to goal by offensive player and defender intentionally redirects it, and it's picked up by player who was in offside position as of initial kick. Referee judgment call. Defender supposedly needs "enough time to play the ball" and must "play it properly." But when you look at the official videos there seems to be no rhyme or reason. The amount of the redirection seems to be irrelevant.
 
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...e-gets-revenge-matchday-central?autoplay=true

Video discussion of last night's games. The bit about the Martinez offsides call starts at around 2:30. Geiger apparently explained afterwards that Opara -- who deflected the ball -- moved his leg towards the ball and planted it, which meant he was trying to block it, not play it, and therefore it was a deflection not deliberate play. One of the panelists (Calen Carr) agrees. Wiebe and Warshaw think that Opara moved his leg towards the ball and that's deliberate, end of story, bad call. Doyle smirks and offers no comment.
 
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...e-gets-revenge-matchday-central?autoplay=true

Video discussion of last night's games. The bit about the Martinez offsides call starts at around 2:30. Geiger apparently explained afterwards that Opara -- who deflected the ball -- moved his leg towards the ball and planted it, which meant he was trying to block it, not play it, and therefore it was a deflection not deliberate play. One of the panelists (Calen Carr) agrees. Wiebe and Warshaw think that Opara moved his leg towards the ball and that's deliberate, end of story, bad call. Doyle smirks and offers no comment.
If Wiebe and Warshaw would have their way, all MLS games would end with a score of 10-8 and each team with only 9 players on the field.

I love watching the Instant Replay videos, but they call for so many red cards and PKs.
 
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If Wiebe and Warshaw would have their way, all MLS games would end with a score of 10-8 and each team with only 9 players on the field.

I love watching the Instant Replay videos, but they call for so many red cards and PKs.

Pretty sure someone from MLS Digital said your quote on a Twitter regarding Wiebe and Warshaw and Doyle.
 
Like everyone else, I have been focusing on Sunday’s interesting games, which besides our’s includes Atlanta going into the Lion’s Den in Orlando and the Cascadia Cup.

But maybe the most interesting game is Saturday with Toronto heading into New England. These are two teams chasing a narrative (to steal a phrase).

Toronto is supposed to be reasserting itself after its distracting CCL run, but since the final, it has only gained 4 points from 3 games, all at home against weak opponents.

New England, meanwhile, is staking claim to be this year’s big surprise, rushing out to a fast start before last weekend’s humiliation against Montreal.

Something has to give, and I can’t wait to see which narrative wins the upper hand.
 
Like everyone else, I have been focusing on Sunday’s interesting games, which besides our’s includes Atlanta going into the Lion’s Den in Orlando and the Cascadia Cup.

But maybe the most interesting game is Saturday with Toronto heading into New England. These are two teams chasing a narrative (to steal a phrase).

Toronto is supposed to be reasserting itself after its distracting CCL run, but since the final, it has only gained 4 points from 3 games, all at home against weak opponents.

New England, meanwhile, is staking claim to be this year’s big surprise, rushing out to a fast start before last weekend’s humiliation against Montreal.

Something has to give, and I can’t wait to see which narrative wins the upper hand.
I'm still not counting TFC out. Yeah, they lost at home to Seattle, but they looked to be the better team to me. They are digging quite a hole, will be interesting to watch them dig out of it.
 
Holy Toronto line up Batman.
 
Has Toronto just gotten old fast? All is USMNT supporters knew Bradley’s been over the hill for a while. Altiodre is relatively young (28), but has plenty of professional mileage on him and been injured plenty in his career. Even Gio is now 31.
 
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Has Toronto just gotten old fast? All is USMNT supporters knew Bradley’s been over the hill for a while. Altiodre is relatively young (28), but has plenty of professional mileage on him and been injured plenty in his career. Even Gio is now 31.

Toronto is definitely a one and done team. They’ve won MLS Cup, and now they’re losing it.
 
Toronto is definitely a one and done team. They’ve won MLS Cup, and now they’re losing it.
Wait, really?

So let met get this straight, we are coming to this opinion about TFC now?

We are saying this about a team that has fielded a legit first team squad 6 times this year? And two of those being after mid-week games in Mexico? A team that went to PKs in the CCL final? They're done?

A team that is currently without their top CB, a DP striker, and one of the best LB's in the league? (All of these players anticipating to return this year).

We've found out that the Cup is about getting into the playoffs and then making it happen. Discounting TFC for MLS Cup consideration at this point seems a bit foolish.
 
NJ now even with us on PPG, at 2. We need a win tomorrow or we drop behind them.
 
Wait, really?

So let met get this straight, we are coming to this opinion about TFC now?

We are saying this about a team that has fielded a legit first team squad 6 times this year? And two of those being after mid-week games in Mexico? A team that went to PKs in the CCL final? They're done?

A team that is currently without their top CB, a DP striker, and one of the best LB's in the league? (All of these players anticipating to return this year).

We've found out that the Cup is about getting into the playoffs and then making it happen. Discounting TFC for MLS Cup consideration at this point seems a bit foolish.
I wouldn't bet against them making the playoffs. The issue with TFC is that their biggest strength was their depth. Now that teams have all of this TAM to spend, the league quickly closed the gap on that advantage.
 
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