MLS Week 30 - 2017

[Seven]

Also, this is going back to last weekend's games but there was one thing I noticed in the Portland-Orlando game I found interesting.

Spector fouled Mattocks in the box, but it was initially missed by the ref. Went to VAR where the ref determined that it was in fact a foul and a PK. The ref then issued Spector a yellow card.

Is the issuance of the yellow per the rules? I know yellows cannot be reviewed, and technically the ref was reviewing the penalty decision, but is he actually able to go ahead and determine a yellow should be issued there? I feel like that opens it up quite a bit when other items are reviewed and additional yellows could be given or other yellows rescinded.

Remember that we did actually have one instance of VAR being used in our favor. Sort of. And it was the same thing.

During the home Derby game, when Zizzo kicked Villa high, it went to video review, which just confirmed that it was a PK. But it wasn't until after the video review that Zizzo got the yellow card.

Now the situations are a little different, since Toledo had already called the PK in our game, and maybe had already in his head decided on a card and just wanted to confirm it wasn't a red.

 

[LionNYC]

Remember that we did actually have one instance of VAR being used in our favor. Sort of. And it was the same thing.

During the home Derby game, when Zizzo kicked Villa high, it went to video review, which just confirmed that it was a PK. But it wasn't until after the video review that Zizzo got the yellow card.

Now the situations are a little different, since Toledo had already called the PK in our game, and maybe had already in his head decided on a card and just wanted to confirm it wasn't a red.

But the referee never went to the monitor himself. He just listened to the VAR and took him at his word.

 

[Gotham Gator]

That is probably going to be impossible honestly. MLS or ESPN or a stats company should really track that. The only way to see if a "check" is done is when the referee places his hand to his ear and holds play from restarting. That isn't in a highlight package or a stat sheet. You have to watch the game to see it.

The VAR is always talking with the referee. VAR informs referee of incident. Referee can play on, take the VAR's advise immediately, the referee can "check" and stop play, and the referee can go to the video review. What do you consider consultation? We can count the number of times the referee went to video review himself or the number of times a decision was changed without having to go to video review solely by the VAR, but counting the checks is going to be impossible with stats from PRO honestly.

But the referee never went to the monitor himself. He just listened to the VAR and took him at his word.

These are good introductions to the difference between a check and a review.

A review is when the referee heads over to the monitor and watches the play to see if he should change a call.

A check is when the VAR looks at the monitors to see if there may be clear and obvious error. Checks are happening all the time. Sometimes, the VAR needs a little extra time to complete a check - maybe he is looking at additional angles. This is when the referee puts his hand up to his ear and holds up the start of play.

In the Red Bulls game, I am convinced he was prepared to give Zizzo a yellow but held off during the check. If the VAR had identified an error, I don't think he wanted to award a card he couldn't rescind.

I think Soup's original request to count reviews was aiming at counting the number of times the referee leaves the pitch to watch a replay, not the number of times the VAR is checking a play. As you note, the second one is impossible to know with any certainty as those are happening all the time.

It's worth emphasizing that the whole video review system has a primary focus on not slowing down the game or having unnecessary stoppages. This is laudable, and it has worked out that way so far. The downside is that it's not always obvious that a play is being checked, and I am becoming convinced that calls are missed as the VAR and on field referee try to act quickly in making decisions.

 

[Sabo]

ATL at NE. Its worth pointing out that both teams have identical home records of 11-2-2.

 

[mgarbowski]

ATL at NE. Its worth pointing out that both teams have identical home records of 11-2-2.

Which made me notice that NYC has only the sixth best home record in the East. Second best road record.

 

[Ulrich]

New England's Red card was rescinded by Disco. At least they finally got something right this year.

 

[mgarbowski]

New England's Red card was rescinded by Disco. At least they finally got something right this year.

So VAR is responsible for a red card that had to be rescinded after further-er review.

I believe I have been vindicated for every whiny screaming ranty post I ever made predicting VAR would be useless and only a waste of time. Really the only thing I got wrong is it's been less of a time-waster than I thought because they almost never use it, but as expected, when they do use it they often get it wrong so randomly fixing 1 out of every 20 wrong calls while also randomly adding occasional new VAR-created wrong calls, is entirely a a waste of time.

 

[Ulrich]

So VAR is responsible for a red card that had to be rescinded after further-er review.

I believe I have been vindicated for every whiny screaming ranty post I ever made predicting VAR would be useless and only a waste of time. Really the only thing I got wrong is it's been less of a time-waster than I thought because they almost never use it, but as expected, when they do use it they often get it wrong so randomly fixing 1 out of every 20 wrong calls while also randomly adding occasional new VAR-created wrong calls, is entirely a a waste of time.

Both the ref and VAR official for that match should never officiate another MLS game. That Red was malpractice by any reading of the definition, and until Pro severely punishes their refs that either disregard correct VAR assessments or make asinine calls like this one with the help of incompetent VAR, then they're just going to Fck up game results. New England should be lodging a massive protest after this.

 

[Ulrich]

In other news, Toronto scores a goal, goes to VAR, clear handball, and Chapman still awards the goal. Chapman is the epitome of a douchebag. VAR specifically called him over and then he basically told them his eyes were better than the actual replay.

 

[dannd23]

So it is looking like Dallas is gonna have to forfeit the match against Orlando because of an ineligible player. Pareja gave the ref the starting XI, then subbed out one of the players prior to the game, and that player that was taken out of the XI subbed in the 84th minute which is against the rules. You can only take a player out of the XI for injury.

So that puts Orlando at 41 points with RBNJ at 43, but RBNJ with a game in hand.

Would love to play Orlando.

 

[SoupInNYC]

So it is looking like Dallas is gonna have to forfeit the match against Orlando because of an ineligible player. Pareja gave the ref the starting XI, then subbed out one of the players prior to the game, and that player that was taken out of the XI subbed in the 84th minute which is against the rules. You can only take a player out of the XI for injury.

So that puts Orlando at 41 points with RBNJ at 43, but RBNJ with a game in hand.

Would love to play Orlando.

Orlando hosts Columbus and then is at Philly to close out the season.

NJ hosts Vancouver and Atlanta, then is at DCU.

 

[mgarbowski]

So it is looking like Dallas is gonna have to forfeit the match against Orlando because of an ineligible player. Pareja gave the ref the starting XI, then subbed out one of the players prior to the game, and that player that was taken out of the XI subbed in the 84th minute which is against the rules. You can only take a player out of the XI for injury.

So that puts Orlando at 41 points with RBNJ at 43, but RBNJ with a game in hand.

Would love to play Orlando.

Have you seen anything official or just twitter chatter and such?

 

[dannd23]

Have you seen anything official or just twitter chatter and such?

Nothing official as far as I know, but it is under review per Orlando Sentinel: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...sp-orlando-city-fc-dallas-20171002-story.html

 

[dannd23]

It is a weird feeling rooting for Orlando.

 

[Ulrich]

It is a weird feeling rooting for Orlando.

I can’t figure out if Orlando or RB would give ATL more fits as a first round match up???

If we had to play one of them, I’d rather play Orlando - I feel like we were really unfortunate with the results this year and clearly the better team, so a rematch doesn’t scare me as much as having another go at RB where a loss to them makes their season.

 

[dannd23]

I can’t figure out if Orlando or RB would give ATL more fits as a first round match up???

If we had to play one of them, I’d rather play Orlando - I feel like we were really unfortunate with the results this year and clearly the better team, so a rematch doesn’t scare me as much as having another go at RB where a loss to them makes their season.

Yeah I am pulling for Orlando. We match up with them very well and think we'd win with ease (assuming we're not snake bitten like the opener). They are also the only team to give ATL a game at their new stadium this year, so any chance to eliminate ATL I would take.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Assuming the forfeit happens, I would mostly be happy because Orlando would put more pressure on the Red Bulls, which would mean that the Cows will be motivated to get a result against Atlanta in 2 weeks.

If we finish 3rd, I'd rather have Orlando as an opponent (despite our record against them). If we finish 2nd, I'd rather have New Jersey face off against Atlanta.