?? maybe he seems himself as the one to change the landscape of soccer and implement "pro/rel"
New York Cosmos surive & move to Coney Island
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?? maybe he seems himself as the one to change the landscape of soccer and implement "pro/rel"
Fast forward five years and there's going to be a massive amount of minor league soccer teams in a political stalemate and almost all of them losing money, with the door almost completely closed on MLS. There's going to be a bloody consolidation at some point with a lot of independent clubs folding. It should have happened this past offseason (with 2-3 teams rejected by USL and folding), but now it's just going to build back up and happen on a larger scale a few years later.
maybe thats what they are hoping for? once the MLS door closes, all the lower league independent teams join together in a "movement" to create a pro/rel system separate from MLS ? and tell US soccer to F off as well ?
i think Australia is having some sort of movement like this where a bunch of lower league teams are pushing or attempting to push for some pro/rel and are even holding meetings of their owners.
Nothing new with teams stepping in from outside of a league as it develops and the eventual collapse of minor leagues in American sports. Look at the history of the WHA, AFL, ABA, and almost entirely non-independent minor league system of baseball.
I wouldn't consider a lower league pro-rel realistic unless those leagues were owned by a single entity. The goal of the Cosmos is promotion, if there's no possibility of promotion to the MLS they would have no reason to entertain relegation. It's unfortunate that the NASL and pro-rel nuts are so obsessed with being first division that they're ignoring the opportunity to develop regional leagues that would provide the kind of geographic rivalries and supporter experience that MLS struggles to beyond a few areas.
The only way pro/ref will ever work, if MLS doesn't want to participate, is for lower leagues to implement it for D2-D*, show that the movement works economically and logistically on the grand scale of the US landmass, while concurrently increasing their infrastructure to meet USSoccer's divisional requirements. If they can do this and have enough teams that all match the reqs stipulated for D1, then they can apply as a group for a D1-D* status andforce USSoccer's hand as to whether there are duelingD1 divisions, MLS & this upstart league, or a single D1. That could force MLS' hand to join if there's a competitor that actually matches up as an equal. But by the time this could take place, MLS is going to be a juggernaut in comparison with 28+teams and a massive TV contract.
I just don't think it's feasible in America. I was on an email group discussion with Dennis Crowley, the owner of the Kingston Stockade, who was enthusiastic about figuring out a pro/rel system for the NPSL. And then he started listing the requirements and talking about travel costs and geographic restrictions, etc. It just isn't feasible, America is too spread out and minor league soccer will never have revenues big enough.
Ignoring politics and looking only at economics, pro/rel might work between the D1/D2 levels. D3 is a question mark. The idea that a D3/D4 league could pioneer pro/rel in any sort of approximation that would work at higher levels is silly, IMO.
D1 - National Major (MLS)
D2 - National Minor (USL/NASL eventual merger)
D3 - Regional Minor (Possible level based on PDL/NPSL teams going pro but keeping costs down, same for USL/NASL teams that can't cut it in D2)
D4 - Semi-Pro/Amateur (PDL/NPSL, eventual merger?)
In a way you've just described the MLB league structure, except maybe with a few extra levels than just the four.
And note that it evolved over a period of over 100 years, and had many mergers, splits, new leagues formed, etc. over that period of time. We're kind of a huge country roughly the size of Europe, who has of course a separate league structure in each and every country. We may just be too big a place to have a single large league system work well, at least without splitting it up into regions.
If MLS is not involved, none of those clowns are going to actually go for pro/rel. They all want promotion to MLS because of the groundwork the league has already done. They want to eat at the table without pitching in.
Never seen an overlay like that. Considering how much bitching English and Spanish coaches do when having to travel to Russia for games, they'd flat out quit if they had the East/West coast trips MLS teams have to regularly make. Orlando->Vancouver is like London->Far Reaches of Siberia.In a way you've just described the MLB league structure, except maybe with a few extra levels than just the four.
And note that it evolved over a period of over 100 years, and had many mergers, splits, new leagues formed, etc. over that period of time. We're kind of a huge country roughly the size of Europe, who has of course a separate league structure in each and every country. We may just be too big a place to have a single large league system work well, at least without splitting it up into regions.
It's a cool site: http://overlapmaps.com/index.php
Try overlaying the UK on top of the US. Pretty small!
(Note that you have to click the big green curved arrow to make it go. Not exactly obvious even though it says it right there on the page.)
LeeNYCFC
Ulrich
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sbrylski all valid points....one big issue i think is real estate......so many amateur teams and semi pro teams don't have a stadium....this is a reason why countries across the world has it...all the teams have stadiums built or have grounds from last century.
While we play in YS its still much better than a high school football field like so many amateur teams play in these types of grounds....there is no way if a team was "promoted" to D1 that they would be allowed to play in a HS field.
there was talk about a overhaul at the amateur level with USASA changing the amateur structure ( NPSL/PDL and other lower regional leagues) and potentially having "pro/rel". so well see...as that is the first step.
I think you're reiterating my point. One of the big criteria I listed IS physical infrastructure- a stadium. Pro/reg will never happen if enough teams are qualified with the infrastructure in place.
all valid points....one big issue i think is real estate......so many amateur teams and semi pro teams don't have a stadium....this is a reason why countries across the world has it...all the teams have stadiums built or have grounds from last century.
While we play in YS its still much better than a high school football field like so many amateur teams play in these types of grounds....there is no way if a team was "promoted" to D1 that they would be allowed to play in a HS field.
there was talk about a overhaul at the amateur level with USASA changing the amateur structure ( NPSL/PDL and other lower regional leagues) and potentially having "pro/rel". so well see...as that is the first step.
On that point I do often wonder how many Premier League fans in England, for example, realize that England as a whole is only slightly larger than New York State by itself, let alone the rest of the US.
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Clearly not very many. They can't see the forest for the trees.
And that's 92 pro teams, which doesn't even count the conferences below those.
In a way you've just described the MLB league structure, except maybe with a few extra levels than just the four.
And note that it evolved over a period of over 100 years, and had many mergers, splits, new leagues formed, etc. over that period of time. We're kind of a huge country roughly the size of Europe, who has of course a separate league structure in each and every country. We may just be too big a place to have a single large league system work well, at least without splitting it up into regions.
Yeah, but how many RBA can fit over that?
In a way you've just described the MLB league structure, except maybe with a few extra levels than just the four.
And note that it evolved over a period of over 100 years, and had many mergers, splits, new leagues formed, etc. over that period of time. We're kind of a huge country roughly the size of Europe, who has of course a separate league structure in each and every country. We may just be too big a place to have a single large league system work well, at least without splitting it up into regions.
I get what you're saying, but to answer your point directly in your own terms:
I get what you're saying, but to answer your point directly in your own terms:
Yeah, but no teams are playing in Siberia
This page is pretty cool. it shows what countries look like absent the Mercator effect (or at its extremes) England is piss poor small at the equator.
http://thetruesize.com
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