Red Bulls - Postmatch

[dummyrun]

I'm not 100% convinced. Warshaw's remedy for us is to play the ball into space. We've shown a willingness to do that before.

Not in the first half this weekend we didn't. I disagree with Warshaw that the best place to look for space was between RBNY's lines (Chanot's pass to Villa was always more likely to lead to a dangerous turnover than a dangerous break) but we weren't looking to switch the ball or put our wingers over the top, which is how you keep a press honest. Our center backs were keeping it on the ground and our midfielders were dropping deep to receive the ball, bringing their markers along with them and constricting the press. That wasn't accidental, that was how we chose to play them.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Not in the first half this weekend we didn't. I disagree with Warshaw that the best place to look for space was between RBNY's lines (Chanot's pass to Villa was always more likely to lead to a dangerous turnover than a dangerous break) but we weren't looking to switch the ball or put our wingers over the top, which is how you keep a press honest. Our center backs were keeping it on the ground and our midfielders were dropping deep to receive the ball, bringing their markers along with them and constricting the press. That wasn't accidental, that was how we chose to play them.

I suppose that I suspect that there was a reason we weren't trying to do that this time around.

Perhaps because, as Warshaw points out, RB were just that much more effective at preventing our defense from getting their heads up for the long ball, or perhaps because RB were a little wiser to the ball over the top. Could even just be that we didn't have a super pacey front line. Another possible reason is that Vieira thought our squad had improved enough to play through it. Extremely foolhardy not to have drilled a plan B if we saw that it wasn't working out, though.

My suspicion is, and inebriated observation was, that RB left themselves deep to protect against the ball over the top and made the space in the middle available expressly because it's easy to crowd out and force turnovers there.

 

[dummyrun]

Another possible reason is that Vieira thought our squad had improved enough to play through it. Extremely foolhardy not to have drilled a plan B if we saw that it wasn't working out, though.

Yeah I think this part is basically it.

Perhaps because, as Warshaw points out, RB were just that much more effective at preventing our defense from getting their heads up for the long ball

Those bump passes that Warshaw perceptively picks out are how you get your head up. Chanot for example plays to Ring, Ring plays a one touch back to Chanot, and if RBNY is jumping those return balls that's exactly when you want to wrong foot them by going over the top. The one-two with Ring gives Chanot a second to scan the field and pick out his second pass—but if the second pass is short, as it most often was, you're just playing into the press.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Yeah I think this part is basically it.



Those bump passes that Warshaw perceptively picks out are how you get your head up. Chanot for example plays to Ring, Ring plays a one touch back to Chanot, and if RBNY is jumping those return balls that's exactly when you want to wrong foot them by going over the top. The one-two with Ring gives Chanot a second to scan the field and pick out his second pass—but if the second pass is short, as it most often was, you're just playing into the press.

Or when they looked up, our forwards weren't ready for it. Sigh.

Also the bump pass is more to draw defenders to Ring (in your example), off of another player, not to get them off Chanot. If Chanot actually has to change his position to shrug off a defender, that's a much harder combo to make, and one that leaves Chanot dangerously out of position if the defender intercepts it.

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

Looking again at the "flick on" - how much of the mistake on that play is Villa's decision to play it or his execution, and how much is on Maxi for getting beaten to the ball by Tyler Adams?

you never know what would have happened if he tried something different. What we do know is this... Villa received that ball with practically nowhere to go. The flick back could have worked but maxi changed his run not anticipating. Villa had a defender closing him down hard so trying to do a 180 and getting the ball to medina would have probably been just as catastrophic. Im not defending the play because clearly it didnt work out, but it wasnt that terrible of a decision as he was running hard forward into a bad position, it wasnt a very smart pass to him in the first place.

 

[SoupInNYC]

you never know what would have happened if he tried something different. What we do know is this... Villa received that ball with practically nowhere to go. The flick back could have worked but maxi changed his run not anticipating. Villa had a defender closing him down hard so trying to do a 180 and getting the ball to medina would have probably been just as catastrophic. Im not defending the play because clearly it didnt work out, but it wasnt that terrible of a decision as he was running hard forward into a bad position, it wasnt a very smart pass to him in the first place.

That's kinda where I am on this. Nothing here screams at me that it was an incredibly awful decision. It was a play that didn't work out and we got burned after it.

I also think the NJ midfielder there (hard to tell who that is), made a great defensive play tracking back with good pace to intercept that pass. It made it so that Maxi absolutely had to anticipate it and get his run right.

 

[Christopher Jee]

https://twitter.com/x/status/994204886467317760

 

[Regulator]

I also think the NJ midfielder there (hard to tell who that is), made a great defensive play tracking back with good pace to intercept that pass. It made it so that Maxi absolutely had to anticipate it and get his run right.

Tyler Adams intercepted it and did a first time pass to Sean Davis. Davis took a touch, long ball to Wright-Phillips and you know the rest.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Tyler Adams intercepted it and did a first time pass to Sean Davis. Davis took a touch, long ball to Wright-Phillips and you know the rest.

And Maxi was much closer to Villa as that ball went to David and was completely outrun to that spot by Adams. I am not trying to throw Maxi under the bus here - a lot of things by a lot of people could have been better on that play. But it is one of 200 examples in that first half of players not being quick enough or decisive enough or tough enough for what the Red Bulls were throwing at them. There were probably half a dozen on that 10 second sequence alone.

 

[Mario]

a lot of over analyzing on a flick that works more often than not, i must say.

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

a lot of over analyzing on a flick that works more often than not, i must say.

its being over analyzed because of Ring's comments. I personally think his comments were douchey and should have been said behind closed doors. Others seem fine with it.

 

[Mario]

its being over analyzed because of Ring's comments. I personally think his comments were douchey and should have been said behind closed doors. Others seem fine with it.

this is my response, retweeted by me again

fuck off ring.

 

[canchon]

But it is one of 200 examples in that first half of players not being quick enough or decisive enough or tough enough for what the Red Bulls were throwing at them. There were probably half a dozen on that 10 second sequence alone.

This is what was most concerning. I get that they got punched in the mouth and that 2 goals in four minutes will shake any team. But it was as if they were completely unprepared to face any pressure at all. If playing out of the back was their desired tactical move, then they should have practiced doing it with their hair on fire - as anyone knows that is what RBNJ will do, run at you hard and give you no space. It was as if they had no idea.

There was a moment in the first half where Ring (I think?) just completely gave up the ball to BWP right in front of the goal and let BWP walk in - when it was still 2-0. It was as if they were just overwhelmed. If the strategy was let them come and play over/around it, then either they didn’t train it and/or executed awfully.

 

[The Toe]

a lot of over analyzing on a flick that works more often than not, i must say.

I dunno. I think PV drilled this team to avoid mistakes/dangerous play in our own half. It was risky -- and is almost always a risky touch, no matter how good you are -- and unnecessary. A no-look backheel with 5 defenders around you in your own half against the highest-pressing team in the league...

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

I dunno. I think PV drilled this team to avoid mistakes/dangerous play in our own half. It was risky -- and is almost always a risky touch, no matter how good you are -- and unnecessary. A no-look backheel with 5 defenders around you in your own half against the highest-pressing team in the league...

should he have dribble right into the redbull defender? maxi was in space to recieve that ball, he just got beat out because the RB player was running harder than he was

 

[Mario]

I dunno. I think PV drilled this team to avoid mistakes/dangerous play in our own half. It was risky -- and is almost always a risky touch, no matter how good you are -- and unnecessary. A no-look backheel with 5 defenders around you in your own half against the highest-pressing team in the league...

what's the difference between a flick to lose the ball in our half, a misplaced pass to lose the ball in our half, or turning into 5 defenders to lose the ball in out half?

not to mention, the one defender who played the offside trap when nobody else did and got beat over the top, and sweats poor positioning throughout the whole thing

 

[Mario]

maybe harsh on sweat but chanot went bananas.

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

Hes running hard in this direction:

off an unexpected long ball. he cant turn right into defenders, he cant go straight, he cant really turn around. Maxi is wide open but gets beaten by his man to his right. It wasnt a dumb play, it was just a play that didnt work out.

EDIT: The only safe play here is to play it out wide to the sidelines int he direction hes facing and likely give up possession but hope slow ass Berget can get to it first

 

[Mario]

i'm surprised he realized the ball was kicked over him and stopped running forward for no reason. i thought he would have at least made it to midfield before turning around

 

[Marito]

Hes running hard in this direction:

off an unexpected long ball. he cant turn right into defenders, he cant go straight, he cant really turn around. Maxi is wide open but gets beaten by his man to his right. It wasnt a dumb play, it was just a play that didnt work out.

EDIT: The only safe play here is to play it out wide to the sidelines int he direction hes facing and likely give up possession but hope slow ass Berget can get to it first

I'm sorry but I don't understand the "wide open" characterization of Maxi's position. Adams is literally nipping at his heels and already on a run, and Davis to his left is maybe 6 feet away, equidistant between him and Berget. If anything Villa has slightly more room to operate around him than Maxi does, although he is clearly surrounded and will lose the ball if he tries to do too much. The only person wide open is Medina to the right. The flick to Maxi had very very low chances of success because both Adams and Davis could converge. Hold up and try to find a seam towards the right flank was the right play.