RSL Postmatch

[roxfontaine]

But I'm waiting for you and others to stop assessing TMac as playing okay. He was worse than crap out there blowing four clear opportunities on goal. Add to it everybody claiming he's a 10 attacking mid, but he showed he's very nervy on the ball and passes back in haste. Maxi chewed him a new ass at one point when he passed him the ball on the sideline but TMac vacated the space to run next to the RB - maxi's point was where did he think he was going? for a guy with a supposed "high soccer IQ", he was making remedial mistakes. And he was our captain - where was the leadership?

This. I wish someone with more time on their hands could put together a Tommy Mac "highlight" from last night. He was slow as molasses, did not show any creativity, and literally bogged down several big buildups in the first half. He is not a fit in this team; ok, maybe he played a bad game. I think he'd be better on a less possession oriented role where he could be an attacking midfielder and direct from zone 14; as he can't do combination buildups.

I get that people like Tommy Mac - local guy, scored some nice skillful goals; has that dumpy likeness that makes him a cult hero; but if he plays better in the first 30 minutes NYCFC is up 2 or 3 and they win this game.

Both of you are right... mostly. I feel that both of you are disregarding two things: 1. The instructions. 2. People do less with more time. You can't expect the guy to get a start and suddenly be a world beater. He is not that and he hasn't had game time with these guys. He is an entirely capable MLS midfielder if you use him properly. He has shown us that.

He absolutely should have had at least one goal yesterday though. No doubt about that.

Edit: I think his goal or assist very well could have come at the free kick that Pirlo took. That's Mac's flight zone.

 

[JayH]

Preaching to the choir and repeating what others have said better than what I will, but, to me, rotating means tweaking, not overhauling. Shoot now, aim later, and go after the 3, especially if they should be an easy get. Yangel leaving was already forcing some critical changes, so don't go overboard on the rest. If Camargo had the issues we expected, glue his ass to the bench. If RJ couldn't sniff the 18 before, he shouldn't be starting now. Maybe Wallace needed a breather, fine. Maybe you give Villa 30 off. But don't turn over the team and risk giving up 3 points that could make the difference in October. It should be the A-minus team, not the B team. With MLS bench depth, a B team means a losing team.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Both of you are right... mostly. I feel that both of you are disregarding two things: 1. The instructions. 2. People do less with more time. You can't expect the guy to get a start and suddenly be a world beater. He is not that and he hasn't had game time with these guys. He is an entirely capable MLS midfielder if you use him properly. He has shown us that.

Has he though? The only time he's really gotten time for us was last year out on the wing, not in the midfield.

 

[SoupInNYC]

But if we fail to get points in either (1 doesn't count vs Orlando) then it's a massive strategic Fck up. At least if you get 3 vs RSL, at worst you're keeping pace with Orlando. Miss all of the points and well....

Understood, and I get that point and that should be taken into consideration. But my point was to address that when it comes down to winning a game, beating Orlando is much more beneficial to us than beating RSL. I just wanted to clarify that.

 

[roxfontaine]

Has he though? The only time he's really gotten time for us was last year out on the wing, not in the midfield.

I think so.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

Has he though? The only time he's really gotten time for us was last year out on the wing, not in the midfield.

He looks much worse this year than last. The body habitus may have caught up with him

 

[SoupInNYC]

He looks much worse this year than last. The body habitus may have caught up with him

I hear you there, he doesn't look quite as comfortable this year as opposed to last, but I don't think it has anything to do with his body or anything.

I think its mostly due to the difference between Maxi and Lampard. With Lampard, our build from the back was a slow build. With Maxi, as well as a better Jack Harrison, our build from the back is much quicker and technical. And Tommy isn't either of those.

 

[The Toe]

It was incredible to me to see a professional athlete be so unprepared as Camargo. He was so flat footed at every moment. Late in the first half Maxi did so well to cut the ball inside and drop off a well-weighted pass that Camargo could have struck easily on his right foot. He stopped the ball with his left, stopped moving, tried getting the ball to his right and was dispossessed. I honestly hope we don't see him again until we're up 2-3 goals.

Our shooting is still just atrocious. How many shots did we sky? Ring and Maxi especially. Within 8 yards, we're usually good. Outside of that it's a crap shoot every time as to what row it's going to land in. The one time we needed to shoot high (Villa), he hit it straight at Rimando. It boggles my mind that we had so many chances from 12-15 yards away from goal that we hit right at Rimando. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

Brillant is horrible. He's a big body and may be useful to connect on a corner, but he must be too passive for this level; he's just never aggressive enough on defending set pieces.

There was some good, though: Maxi moved the ball well and looked a little quicker and more decisive in his role. Pirlo hit the ball well, at least and allowed us to change field more easily than we have recently. For some reason he looked like he sprinted a few times? Weird. Our subs changed the game and I was at least happy to see PV make changes to go for the win, but it is hard to play against 11 in one half of the field. I thought we outplayed them pretty handily, too. Rusnak's goal was fantastic, but this is the most disappointed I've been in a result in a while.

 

[sbrylski]

We accomplished none of the presumed goals last night.

We didn't rest anyone except Wallace and Sweat. The entire team flew all over the country. We didn't win.

Chanot too.

 

[Marito]

I hear you there, he doesn't look quite as comfortable this year as opposed to last, but I don't think it has anything to do with his body or anything.

I think its mostly due to the difference between Maxi and Lampard. With Lampard, our build from the back was a slow build. With Maxi, as well as a better Jack Harrison, our build from the back is much quicker and technical. And Tommy isn't either of those.

I think this is spot-on. We now have the tools to be faster, and that has left TMac and Pirlo behind. And also both look worse, because of age Pirlo and lack of continuity TMac, I guess.

 

[Jason Richards]

• To me the big mystery is where was Lewis. We paid $250k for the kid, he looked good with the U20 Nationals, and he's not even in the squad on rotation night. Can he be showing that poorly in training?
• Meanwhile, RJ did not look game fit. Blah blah altitude. He was sucking wind 3 minutes in. What the hell could he have been showing in training that he did get a start?
• The Venezuela call up for YH could not have come at a worse time in the schedule.
• I thought Okoli looked pretty good. That goal was not lucky except that Beckerman had a terrible turnover that went right to him. After that, he had to fight off two defenders to take the shot and put it on target. Nice work.
• But Villa must be pulling some Derek Jeter shit in refusing to share his position and play 2 up center. It's one thing to almost never bring Okoli in late to supplement Villa. But when Okoli starts and you insert DV as a sub, but keep Okoli in as a winger, we might as well just go a man down. The kid is useless out there.
• Camargo is another one who has me not only disappointed but wondering what the hell is up with Lewis. I know they're not at all like for like replacements, but is our depth so screwed up and uneven that Camargo starts at his spot while Lewis can't even make the 18 at his? Or is Lewis that terrible in practice? Or hurt?
• I think we knew this going in, but the day after it's clear how big a trap game this was, not just in the usual sense of a weak opponent sandwiched between two good ones, but with the schedule and the travel, PV had no choice that didn't concede something in advance. Taking points from Orlando is more important than RSL. Plus, I think pride and saving face played into it. The two biggest pimples on our record are RB and Orlando. Going with a full squad against scoreless-in-forever RSL, and then limping into Orlando with either an exhausted lineup or the B- Team would announce to the world that we never thought we could win in Orlando. It might have been smart but I can't imagine PV conceding like that. If we break our Orlando hex, in Orlando, and give them their first home loss, that's a huge +, but if not, giving up what should have been easy points in Utah was just a waste.

[/

• To me the big mystery is where was Lewis. We paid $250k for the kid, he looked good with the U20 Nationals, and he's not even in the squad on rotation night. Can he be showing that poorly in training?
• Meanwhile, RJ did not look game fit. Blah blah altitude. He was sucking wind 3 minutes in. What the hell could he have been showing in training that he did get a start?
• The Venezuela call up for YH could not have come at a worse time in the schedule.
• I thought Okoli looked pretty good. That goal was not lucky except that Beckerman had a terrible turnover that went right to him. After that, he had to fight off two defenders to take the shot and put it on target. Nice work.
• But Villa must be pulling some Derek Jeter shit in refusing to share his position and play 2 up center. It's one thing to almost never bring Okoli in late to supplement Villa. But when Okoli starts and you insert DV as a sub, but keep Okoli in as a winger, we might as well just go a man down. The kid is useless out there.
• Camargo is another one who has me not only disappointed but wondering what the hell is up with Lewis. I know they're not at all like for like replacements, but is our depth so screwed up and uneven that Camargo starts at his spot while Lewis can't even make the 18 at his? Or is Lewis that terrible in practice? Or hurt?
• I think we knew this going in, but the day after it's clear how big a trap game this was, not just in the usual sense of a weak opponent sandwiched between two good ones, but with the schedule and the travel, PV had no choice that didn't concede something in advance. Taking points from Orlando is more important than RSL. Plus, I think pride and saving face played into it. The two biggest pimples on our record are RB and Orlando. Going with a full squad against scoreless-in-forever RSL, and then limping into Orlando with either an exhausted lineup or the B- Team would announce to the world that we never thought we could win in Orlando. It might have been smart but I can't imagine PV conceding like that. If we break our Orlando hex, in Orlando, and give them their first home loss, that's a huge +, but if not, giving up what should have been easy points in Utah was just a waste.

I believe PV is bringing him in slowly I've seen trainings and he has done well

 

[Jason Richards]

Lewis hasn't Been bad at practice at all even Sean Johnson said in an interview he is the fastest guy on the team. That alone would have been helpful yesterday raw pace and ability to beat players off the dribble. I can't imagine him being worse then camargo and TMac in training. They must be working him in slowly for sure

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

Pirlo was Pirlo. For all of his known deficiencies, he was not the issue last night - Camargo and McNamara were. There were multiple instances when Pirlo delivered excellent passes, only to see the Camargo or McNamara stumble or wait until a defender closed. The most notable was after RSL scored, roughly in the fortieth minute, when Tommy butchered a pass from Pirlo and didn't even manage a shot.

Squad rotation is necessary, but sitting all three regular attackers on the front line was the single biggest mistake. Just one of Wallace/Harrison/Villa from the start and there would have been more than the single goal for the good guys.

For what it is worth, I'd agree Pirlo should be on his way out of the starting eleven sooner rather than later, but that overall assessment should not obscure the specific issues with last night's game.

 

[sbrylski]

Pirlo was Pirlo. For all of his known deficiencies, he was not the issue last night - Camargo and McNamara were. There were multiple instances when Pirlo delivered excellent passes, only to see the Camargo or McNamara stumble or wait until a defender closed. The most notable was after RSL scored, roughly in the fortieth minute, when Tommy butchered a pass from Pirlo and didn't even manage a shot.

Squad rotation is necessary, but sitting all three regular attackers on the front line was the single biggest mistake. Just one of Wallace/Harrison/Villa from the start and there would have been more than the single goal for the good guys.

For what it is worth, I'd agree Pirlo should be on his way out of the starting eleven sooner rather than later, but that overall assessment should not obscure the specific issues with last night's game.

Pirlo had a 71.4% passing success rate last night. That is terrible, and extremely terrible for Pirlo standards. Before, he was just lazy. Now, he's lazy and careless.

And it's pointless to blame it on his teammates by saying Pirlo would be valuable if they were better. Because they're not better, they are what they are. So Pirlo is useless to us.

 

[Ulrich]

Pirlo had a 71.4% passing success rate last night. That is terrible, and extremely terrible for Pirlo standards. Before, he was just lazy. Now, he's lazy and careless.

And it's pointless to blame it on his teammates by saying Pirlo would be valuable if they were better. Because they're not better, they are what they are. So Pirlo is useless to us.

When half of his passes go back safely to a defender or keeper, he's essentially completing fewer than half of his offensive passes. That's not just careless, that's downright damaging. There were so many mid-range balls he tried to play over the last defender that didn't have a chance of clearing their head - it was painful to watch him do it over and over..... and yet he was able to hit the crazy half-field pass to TMac that he muffed. Whatever his problem is, it's killing us.

 

[danger]

the poop emoji isn't enabled on the forum

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

Pirlo isn't the future, but I'll maintain he wasn't the issue last night. Statistically, the passing success rate may have been lower than his average (71.4%), but the team's passing success rate as a whole (75%) was lowest it has been in the past five games (79% Orlando, 85% Columbus, 76% Atlanta, 78% Dallas). Further, per whoscored, Pirlo had the most key passes (tied with Maxi) for the night. Lofting long balls will always lead to lower passing percentages, but last night Pirlo delivered a sufficient number of opportunities that were botched by the two wide attackers. From Pirlo, we should want the big play, not the small ones.

Camargo isn't ready. Tommy is far better as a substitute when he can run fresh against tired legs, minimizing his athletic shortcomings. They were the biggest issue last night in a winnable game.

Regardless, going forward I'd rather have Herrera (at least until the next DP).

 

[21Architect]

There were multiple instances when Pirlo delivered excellent passes, only to see the Camargo or McNamara stumble or wait until a defender closed. The most notable was after RSL scored, roughly in the fortieth minute, when Tommy butchered a pass from Pirlo and didn't even manage a shot..

This scenario has happened 4,493 times since Pirlo left Europe and joined NYCFC.

 

[JayH]

When half of his passes go back safely to a defender or keeper, he's essentially completing fewer than half of his offensive passes. That's not just careless, that's downright damaging. There were so many mid-range balls he tried to play over the last defender that didn't have a chance of clearing their head - it was painful to watch him do it over and over..... and yet he was able to hit the crazy half-field pass to TMac that he muffed. Whatever his problem is, it's killing us.

And when he missed, he often missed badly in a manner that put us at serious risk on transition. I mentioned on the live chat during the first half that many of RSL's best chances started with an intercepted Pirlo pass. He could have had his first four or five assists of the season if RSL had finished better.

 

[Ulrich]

And when he missed, he often missed badly in a manner that put us at serious risk on transition. I mentioned on the live chat during the first half that many of RSL's best chances started with an intercepted Pirlo pass. He could have had his first four or five assists of the season if RSL had finished better.

Yep. Had those assists happened, he too could have gone down as the answer to RSL trivia by way of a trick question: which player had the first 4 assist game in the RSL/NYCFC series?