Seattle Postmatch

This is an interesting site I found.

They agree that it was a penalty on Jack in the 1st half. And really, there's just no way it isn't.

https://you-are-the-ref.com/ref-cam/new-york-city-v-seattle-sounders/
Their biggest criticism is the field conditions. They are quite certain the refs should have stopped the game and that it will be discussed internally. I'm not so sure and this is the thing: everyone criticizes NYC for playing on a baseball field but the real problem is scheduling around a baseball team. We have no flexibility to reschedule a suspended game, and I'm sure PRO is fully aware of that.
 
Their biggest criticism is the field conditions. They are quite certain the refs should have stopped the game and that it will be discussed internally. I'm not so sure and this is the thing: everyone criticizes NYC for playing on a baseball field but the real problem is scheduling around a baseball team. We have no flexibility to reschedule a suspended game, and I'm sure PRO is fully aware of that.
Yes, I agree. That's why I ignored that part. Was always going to be finished in my mind.
 
I thought about this some more this morning and here's what my best guess is happening, at least for me. I don't actually think "they're going to score." I just recognize that a good opportunity is going to develop sometimes several seconds before it happens. Which I think most people can do after watching a while. Then 1 of 3 things happens:

  1. No chance develops, and I rationalize that the player mis-hit a pass, or adefender made a briliant play to intercept, etc.
  2. Most likely outcome: a strong chance develops but is not finished; no goal is scored, and I congratulate mself for recognizing the development far in advance.
  3. A goal is scored, and my mind immediately backfills and switches my prediction from a good chance developing to "I knew they would score."
I think the way we test this is we watch some games together and when we get The Feeling we say, out loud so the other can hear it, "here comes a goal" (or something similar), and then we have external verification.
 
Their biggest criticism is the field conditions. They are quite certain the refs should have stopped the game and that it will be discussed internally. I'm not so sure and this is the thing: everyone criticizes NYC for playing on a baseball field but the real problem is scheduling around a baseball team. We have no flexibility to reschedule a suspended game, and I'm sure PRO is fully aware of that.

Yeah, but I thought they might stop the game and wait an hour for the rain to stop -- while we were in the first half, I didn't think they'd abandon, I thought they'd wait the rain out. It was funny how as soon as it stopped raining the ball almost immediately started to move again. I'm glad they didn't stop it, but the game was farcical at times.
 
Well the snark answer would be to say McNamara == Grabavoy, all enigmatic-like.

The perhaps more accurate answer is that the forum seems united in opinion against him but the whole rest of the soccer universe really likes him. I mean, making the 40 for the national team seems diametrically opposed to him being "useless and should never see the field again." And Vieira continually says he's a vital part of our team and would be much more valuable if he could play every minute we had available. And every announcer whether it be ours or national ones always seem to say, "oooh, he's so good." It's like the whole world likes him except us, so I'm thinking maybe it's us and not the whole rest of the world that might need to reexamine their analysis.

I'm not saying he's the best player who's ever laced up the boots but honestly I trust Vieira more than all of our armchair quarterbacking combined. Vieira got us into the playoffs last year and we seem to be a darn good team this year as well. Can't really agree with the forum position that Vieira doesn't know what he's doing. (Although I fully acknowledge that this could be his for-the-public face and that's not how he actually feels.)

So yeah, I like McNamara but that's neither here nor there. What matters most is that Vieira likes McNamara and I tend to trust his judgement.*

* Although ask me again at the end of July if we've traded him somewhere. One never knows. Also, for the record I'm voting for "good argument." YMMV, of course.

I would disagree that "the forum is united against him." I think there is a group that thinks he's crap and trumpets this at every possible instance. Then there are the rest of us that disagree but realize these are the kinds of people with whom it is pointless to argue, so we roll our eyes and move on.
 
Yeah, but I thought they might stop the game and wait an hour for the rain to stop -- while we were in the first half, I didn't think they'd abandon, I thought they'd wait the rain out. It was funny how as soon as it stopped raining the ball almost immediately started to move again. I'm glad they didn't stop it, but the game was farcical at times.
I may be biased because my seats were nice and dry but I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the slip-n-slide conditions (in the case of the people) and the occasionally-stuck-in-the-swamp conditions (in the case of the ball). As far as I know the only time they don't play in the Premier League is when the ground is frozen.

Rain? Game on!
 
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I would disagree that "the forum is united against him." I think there is a group that thinks he's crap and trumpets this at every possible instance. Then there are the rest of us that disagree but realize these are the kinds of people with whom it is pointless to argue, so we roll our eyes and move on.
LOL Shots fired!
 
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I would disagree that "the forum is united against him." I think there is a group that thinks he's crap and trumpets this at every possible instance. Then there are the rest of us that disagree but realize these are the kinds of people with whom it is pointless to argue, so we roll our eyes and move on.
I've been pretty much 100% so far. I pick my whipping boys, and lo and behold, they have been moved along promptly.

I don't think you're being genuine that you don't argue for his quality because of the people on the other side. It's that we're all right about him, so there's no winning position to be had.

The arguable blemish on my record of predicting the chaff is Lopez, but I think that's a function of his pay and two different guys being Mixed, which has nothing to do with their quality or his lack thereof.

RJ is shit, but he's cover and cheap.

Ucubed isn't even that cheap any more. He'll be gone soon. What exactly do you see other than someone who tries hard? He's not young and developing, what he brings is known, and not very valuable to our team now. He doesn't even finish well, now.

I'd like nothing more for him to wake up and be Kevin Debruyne, but that ain't happening. And even if it did, it wouldn't make anyone wrong or right in their judgment of how he has played in the past.
 
I may be biased because my seats were nice and dry but I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the slip-n-slide conditions (in the case of the people) and the occasionally-stuck-in-the-swamp conditions (in the case of the ball). As far as I know the only time they don't play in the Premier League is when the ground is frozen.

Rain? Game on!
Yeah sure, it was funny and entertaining, but it also wasn't really soccer. It was farcical at times.
 
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I would disagree that "the forum is united against him." I think there is a group that thinks he's crap and trumpets this at every possible instance. Then there are the rest of us that disagree but realize these are the kinds of people with whom it is pointless to argue, so we roll our eyes and move on.
I'm asking this very seriously, but did you roll your eyes when I called for Pirlo to be benched for Hererra?

I'm pretty sure I was the first person (Midas would argue he was, but he felt Pirlo could still be serviceable at home) on the Forums to say we needed to bench him for Hererra because we'd be exceptionally better. There was a big divide on the issue and only a few of us that felt that way, while the rest of the Forums thought we were either crazy, or they didn't want to trust a 19yo, or they just didn't think Yangel was that good coming from Venezuela. Not only has the switch been proven right, but it's not even close with how the midfield performs with him.

I bring this up because it's easy to claim moral superiority by rolling your eyes regarding TMac, but to be that dismissive considering his diminished stats and pretty visible crappy play on the field, is either being arrogant or naive. I don't hate TMac, but he's an MLS 2.0 player on an MLS 3.0 team (when considering our first 13-15 players), and his glaring weakness -lack of speed/defense - is the exact reason that one of the greatest midfielders ever also can't get any minutes. I think TMac could very easily get minutes on another team, but with the makeup and style of ours, and considering his hefty Cap hit, he doesn't rate well when compared to our other players.
 
I'm pretty sure I was the first person (Midas would argue he was, but he felt Pirlo could still be serviceable at home) on the Forums to say we needed to bench him for Hererra because we'd be exceptionally better.
Nah. I didn't call for it permanently at first because I had no idea what we would look like with that lineup. I just called for PV to give it a shot as I wanted to find out. I certainly wasn't the staunchest anti-Pirlo voice.

If you say you were first, you were first.

I had just taken it that there was just a general groundswell of people being ready to move on as it became obvious he wasn't even up to his standards from last year.
 
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A couple of items regarding our lineup for this week:
  • After sitting almost directly next to the bench for the US Open Cup match, I'm not surprised that Ethan White was sat for this one. The coaching staff and several other players were constantly laying into him during that game.
  • I was curious as to what PV was going to do with Maxi out for this one. I thought it would be a good spot to bring Pirlo back in with Ring and Herrera surrounding him, but ultimately I think he got this right based on the weather conditions.
    • I think Pirlo's strengths would have been neutralized in the heavy downpour. His long balls would not be as effective, and our wingers would not be able to run on to them as usual.
    • I also think that the heavy rain would have limited what Jonathan Lewis would have brought us. His speed would not nearly be as effective. Now I'm not certain at all as to why he didn't make the 18, that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
    • I'm no TMac fan, but I think the way he plays actually fit this game better than our other options. He's slow and awkward, but often finds himself in good spots. The game on Saturday was built for slow and awkward. Now, I don't think he played well, so perhaps that goes against my argument. But heading into the game under those conditions, I thought it was the right move.
I was in 237 for the first half and my clothes were completely soaked immediately. Second half I moved close to the Batter's Eye area still getting soaked in the rain. But I'm very glad I made this move as I surely would have sprained an ankle celebrating the goals in the bleachers.
 
It's interesting to debate lineup options in rain like that. I don't think either our 18 or our 11 reflected the rain since something that bad was not in the forecast.

I actually think long balls ended up being a better option in those conditions since balls along the ground were slowing and stopping in the puddles.
Agree on the long balls, but Pirlo's dawdling on the ball would have been asking for it.

It's that latter part that really makes him hard to fit in for how everyone else in the team wants to play. Pirlo wants to do his Maestro thing and conduct a complex symphony. Everyone else on the field is mostly playing "heavy metal football". When Pirlo gets on the ball, it sort of screeches that to a halt.

That said, I think he's 9/10 times a better choice than Sal.
 
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A couple of items regarding our lineup for this week:
  • After sitting almost directly next to the bench for the US Open Cup match, I'm not surprised that Ethan White was sat for this one. The coaching staff and several other players were constantly laying into him during that game.
  • I was curious as to what PV was going to do with Maxi out for this one. I thought it would be a good spot to bring Pirlo back in with Ring and Herrera surrounding him, but ultimately I think he got this right based on the weather conditions.
    • I think Pirlo's strengths would have been neutralized in the heavy downpour. His long balls would not be as effective, and our wingers would not be able to run on to them as usual.
    • I also think that the heavy rain would have limited what Jonathan Lewis would have brought us. His speed would not nearly be as effective. Now I'm not certain at all as to why he didn't make the 18, that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
    • I'm no TMac fan, but I think the way he plays actually fit this game better than our other options. He's slow and awkward, but often finds himself in good spots. The game on Saturday was built for slow and awkward. Now, I don't think he played well, so perhaps that goes against my argument. But heading into the game under those conditions, I thought it was the right move.
I was in 237 for the first half and my clothes were completely soaked immediately. Second half I moved close to the Batter's Eye area still getting soaked in the rain. But I'm very glad I made this move as I surely would have sprained an ankle celebrating the goals in the bleachers.
Lewis is definitely not a mudder. He's a thoroughbred that needs a firm track to sprint down. In that sloshy gale on Saturday, he'd have broken a foreleg and would've needed to be put down afterwards.
 
Yeah sure, it was funny and entertaining, but it also wasn't really soccer. It was farcical at times.
I kind of disagree. Well, I do agree with "at times farcical" but I disagree with "not really soccer." Is is a real NFL game in a driving snowstorm in Green Bay in December? Heck yes! Same in this situation. As long as the ball can still move on the grass I'd say to keep on going. Is it the beautiful game under those conditions? Not really, but sometimes that happens.
 
I will say a bit here about McNamara - at this point, it might need its own thread.

There are people here who take a rather simplistic dichotomous view of players, and that's difficult to respect when the truth is somewhere in the middle. Tommy is a good player, and a solid backup for a team like ours. I agree that he is not the great player some in the media make him out to be, but he is well above crap, and I think that's fairly easy to demonstrate.

Last season he was 14th in the league in assists, and he also added 5 goals to that - many of both were in key situations. This season, he already has 2 goals and 1 assist in limited play. He is a clever player, who is capable of delivering a dangerous pass on target in the final 3rd. He also has a strong leg that can score from range and a smart game that often finds him in the right place to finish a scoring chance.

Of course, his game also has limitations. He is not quick or particularly athletic, so he has trouble covering the ground that our system requires for a mid or a winger. He is not strong defensively or in the air.

What does all that mean, at least for me? He is not a guy we want starting regularly, but he is a solid bench guy for us, who can help us poach a goal late or be reliable in spot starts when guys are hurt. And guess what - that is exactly what he is for us this season. He is filling the role we need and doing it reasonably well. And people have complained about how much he costs. He makes $185K, which is 11th on the team and hardly breaking the bank. Do people really think we can go out and find a better quality backup on those wages or less?

McNamara's goals plus assists per game last year were 0.565, which is higher than Wallace this year at 0.538. Tommy is down a bit this year at 0.511, but I don't think there is an important difference between any of those numbers. We start Wallace not because he is better in the final third, but because he is more athletic and a better defender. He can cover more ground, and with him in the game, we are able to press other teams more effectively. I am okay with that, and I think nearly everyone else in blue is as well. But there is a big difference between that take and the one that says he is unworthy of being in the league.

This leads me to my final point, which is kind of the linchpin for me. Much of the talk around Tommy is really disrespectful, and he is the last guy who deserves that. The UCubed references and other stuff are just bullshit to me. Save that stuff for a guy who deserves to be mocked. If a player is talented but lazy, or has an attitude problem, or has gotten into trouble off the field, then fine. But Tommy is none of those things. He is a guy with limited athletic ability who has carved out a place in this league through hard work and smarts, and that kind of thing should be respected, even if the league may be passing him by.