Seattle Postmatch

Gotham Gator said:
I will say a bit here about McNamara - at this point, it might need its own thread.

There are people here who take a rather simplistic dichotomous view of players, and that's difficult to respect when the truth is somewhere in the middle. Tommy is a good player, and a solid backup for a team like ours. I agree that he is not the great player some in the media make him out to be, but he is well above crap, and I think that's fairly easy to demonstrate.

Last season he was 14th in the league in assists, and he also added 5 goals to that - many of both were in key situations. This season, he already has 2 goals and 1 assist in limited play. He is a clever player, who is capable of delivering a dangerous pass on target in the final 3rd. He also has a strong leg that can score from range and a smart game that often finds him in the right place to finish a scoring chance.

Of course, his game also has limitations. He is not quick or particularly athletic, so he has trouble covering the ground that our system requires for a mid or a winger. He is not strong defensively or in the air.

What does all that mean, at least for me? He is not a guy we want starting regularly, but he is a solid bench guy for us, who can help us poach a goal late or be reliable in spot starts when guys are hurt. And guess what - that is exactly what he is for us this season. He is filling the role we need and doing it reasonably well. And people have complained about how much he costs. He makes $185K, which is 11th on the team and hardly breaking the bank. Do people really think we can go out and find a better quality backup on those wages or less?

McNamara's goals plus assists per game last year were 0.565, which is higher than Wallace this year at 0.538. Tommy is down a bit this year at 0.511, but I don't think there is an important difference between any of those numbers. We start Wallace not because he is better in the final third, but because he is more athletic and a better defender. He can cover more ground, and with him in the game, we are able to press other teams more effectively. I am okay with that, and I think nearly everyone else in blue is as well. But there is a big difference between that take and the one that says he is unworthy of being in the league.

This leads me to my final point, which is kind of the linchpin for me. Much of the talk around Tommy is really disrespectful, and he is the last guy who deserves that. The UCubed references and other stuff are just bullshit to me. Save that stuff for a guy who deserves to be mocked. If a player is talented but lazy, or has an attitude problem, or has gotten into trouble off the field, then fine. But Tommy is none of those things. He is a guy with limited athletic ability who has carved out a place in this league through hard work and smarts, and that kind of thing should be respected, even if the league may be passing him by.
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I wish I could double or triple-like this post. Instead I'll just like, quote and adulate :)
 
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Gotham Gator said:
He makes $185K, which is 11th on the team and hardly breaking the bank. Do people really think we can go out and find a better quality backup on those wages or less?
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yes! Absolutely could. There is a whole continent and a half of talent to our south that would play for that salary plus all the benefits of being in a country that doesn't offer kids the choice of 'join our gang or we will kill you'.

But that requires and international spot. 185k seems like the price for American talent that bakes in the value of what an international spot would cost us.

I like Tommy. He has a fun Rudy-esque vibe about him. I'd like him more sub-100k. I'd love him at league minimum. He sometimes looks lost, slow, and makes bad passes. And sometimes he makes spectacular assists and long distance shots. Looking at him purely as a soccer commodity, I think 185k is a overpriced as opposed to fair priced. He is by no means hamstringing the team, but if we could take back that 185k and reinvest it into some under priced value fullback who plays like a guy on 200-300k contract, then we would vastly improve our starting 11 (how one goes about finding such talent is beyond my pay grade, i am just sayin'). And since this is a playoff driven league who cares about depth for double game weeks or 3 games in 10 days, when all we need to do is get into the playoffs and put our best 11 out there for 5 games over 2 months. Since we have gotten ourselves in good position over the 1st half of the season, I could see us selling Tommy to do just that and improve our team for a playoff run.
 
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It is probably too difficult to quantify the negative impact of all instances where Tommy is in good position to receive a pass on attack but players like Villa and Maxi don't give him the ball (presumably because they think he is not that good). Villa is always looking for Rodney and seems to trust him implicitly. With Tommy on the left wing, Villa will often keep the ball and cut toward the middle into traffic.
 
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Rimil said:
yes! Absolutely could. There is a whole continent and a half of talent to our south that would play for that salary plus all the benefits of being in a country that doesn't offer kids the choice of 'join our gang or we will kill you'.

But that requires and international spot. 185k seems like the price for American talent that bakes in the value of what an international spot would cost us.

I like Tommy. He has a fun Rudy-esque vibe about him. I'd like him more sub-100k. I'd love him at league minimum. He sometimes looks lost, slow, and makes bad passes. And sometimes he makes spectacular assists and long distance shots. Looking at him purely as a soccer commodity, I think 185k is a overpriced as opposed to fair priced. He is by no means hamstringing the team, but if we could take back that 185k and reinvest it into some under priced value fullback who plays like a guy on 200-300k contract, then we would vastly improve our starting 11 (how one goes about finding such talent is beyond my pay grade, i am just sayin'). And since this is a playoff driven league who cares about depth for double game weeks or 3 games in 10 days, when all we need to do is get into the playoffs and put our best 11 out there for 5 games over 2 months. Since we have gotten ourselves in good position over the 1st half of the season, I could see us selling Tommy to do just that and improve our team for a playoff run.
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I generally agree, but either our scouting is bad or the real talent south of the border is more expensive that we think. We got Camargo for 100K and he hasn't been any better than Tommy.
 
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100G and above said:
It is probably too difficult to quantify the negative impact of all instances where Tommy is in good position to receive a pass on attack but players like Villa and Maxi don't give him the ball (presumably because they think he is not that good). Villa is always looking for Rodney and seems to trust him implicitly. With Tommy on the left wing, Villa will often keep the ball and cut toward the middle into traffic.
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I forgot who it was that withheld a pass from him on Saturday, but that definitely happened in the second half and Tommy was visibly upset about it.
 
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Rimil said:
He is by no means hamstringing the team, but if we could take back that 185k and reinvest it into some under priced value fullback who plays like a guy on 200-300k contract, then we would vastly improve our starting 11 (how one goes about finding such talent is beyond my pay grade, i am just sayin).
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If you can trade TMac for a RB upgrade, you do it 100%. I've been banging the drum that a trade should be made sending TMac to SKC for Abdul-Salaam, who is stuck behind Zusi at RB.

I get that TMac has moments of hustle and has scored some amazing outside the box goals, and that he somehow gets into good spaces.
I can't somehow understand how he can be so good at that and at other times looks so awful and out of sync with the rest of the team. I feel like he doesn't fit with the triangular passing and vertical game that NYCFC plays...he doesn't pass like it's needed and when an opportunity opens up he doesn't bury it. Maddening.

I don't think he is useless or a squad player...just that he might be a better fit with another team that doesn't demand so much of its tactics.
 
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Marito said:
I generally agree, but either our scouting is bad or the real talent south of the border is more expensive that we think. We got Camargo for 100K and he hasn't been any better than Tommy.
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If we're comparing based on stats, he has 1G/176min.... that's half a goal/90min which ranks him second on the team behind Villa.
Code: 
https://www.nycfc.com/stats/season?year=2017&group=g

Granted, he has a really small sample size compared to others, and I don't want him anywhere near a lethal finisher when defending a set piece, but in the open field, Camargo can push the ball forward pretty well and works spaces with confidence. I'd like to see more of him at the end of a game when we have a lead, because I think he's probably a good person to outlet to on a counter if the other team is pushing hard.
 
canchon said:
If you can trade TMac for a RB upgrade, you do it 100%. I've been banging the drum that a trade should be made sending TMac to SKC for Abdul-Salaam, who is stuck behind Zusi at RB.

I get that TMac has moments of hustle and has scored some amazing outside the box goals, and that he somehow gets into good spaces.
I can't somehow understand how he can be so good at that and at other times looks so awful and out of sync with the rest of the team. I feel like he doesn't fit with the triangular passing and vertical game that NYCFC plays...he doesn't pass like it's needed and when an opportunity opens up he doesn't bury it. Maddening.

I don't think he is useless or a squad player...just that he might be a better fit with another team that doesn't demand so much of its tactics.
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For all the nice things I said about Tommy, if there is a team out there that rates him as a starter and would make a trade like that, I am certainly fine with the move. We have Shelton, who once fit can perform a similar role (albeit with the opposite skill set), and I think we can all agree that Lewis has a higher ceiling.
 
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Fake Jew said:
You might hate him and he's not a good player at all but he sure as hell gets the job done as a supersub. You have to give him some credit for that.
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giphy.gif
 
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