The Case for Selling TMac

JGarrettLieb

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So I just looked up TMac to see what he might bring on the open market, because I'm starting to think he's surplus to requirements and likely at the height of his value. I personally doubt that TMac is going to get many minutes going forward and that kills your value. There are a combination of reasons for this theory but the primary reason is that I believe that TMac's immobility is a liability that outweighs the benefits brought by his technical skill.

Well that and apparently he's worth quite a bit if we're willing to start selling.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/tommy-mcnamara/profil/spieler/307892

Transfermarkt has him worth 850,000 euros. That's a max GAM deal. That kind of deal allows us to carry another Chanot on the books for three years with an annualized cap hit of approx $300k; back of envelope math.

I realize that he is a hometown hero and a cult star on the team, but we should ship him out during the summer if we can get a deal within spitting distance of that number. Even if TMac is only sold for 2/3 of his estimated value its still basically a max GAM deal in USD.

Right now I think TMac is in the exact same situation Poku was in right before we sold him. Basically a bench player who can come on occasionally, shows flashes of offensive brilliance, and probably worth more to the team as GAM than as a player.

If we've got the space for it we can get a real right back. Imagine having a player who has the offensive benefits of RJ and can actually defend as well. I doubt TMac's marketing value is worth more to NYCFC than the points that might put us over NJRB on the table. Basically doing a deal like this allows us to trade a bench player in a position we're stocked at, midfielder, for a starter in a position of real weakness RB.

Conducting the trade in the summer would obviously be more beneficial since we would have time to further discover whether TMac's services are genuinely required, for example as an offensive substitute if we decide to use a 3 back formation. And dealing in the summer allows us access to a cheaper pool of talent. Acquiring players on a free transfer is significantly more cap efficient, and we would only take a half season salary cap hit.

That said, if any prospective deal is not a max GAM or near max GAM deal I think we should pass it up. Transfermarkt could be inaccurate about his potential sale value thus for the purposes of this post I posited a situation where we are receiving a max or near max GAM deal.

So I put it to the board.
1. What are the flaws in my argument?
2. Is there a, "we should sell him" number that we can come to a broad consensus on?
3. I don't think selling him within MLS would be allow us to maximize his value as an asset. Agree/disagree.
4. Should I be burned at the stake for suggesting selling TMac your lord and savior?

Also TMac, if you actually read these boards I really like you as a person and as a player. But I think the best thing you could do to make the team stronger is allow yourself to be sold a la Poku.
 
So I just looked up TMac to see what he might bring on the open market, because I'm starting to think he's surplus to requirements and likely at the height of his value. I personally doubt that TMac is going to get many minutes going forward and that kills your value. There are a combination of reasons for this theory but the primary reason is that I believe that TMac's immobility is a liability that outweighs the benefits brought by his technical skill.

Well that and apparently he's worth quite a bit if we're willing to start selling.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/tommy-mcnamara/profil/spieler/307892

Transfermarkt has him worth 850,000 euros. That's a max GAM deal. That kind of deal allows us to carry another Chanot on the books for three years with an annualized cap hit of approx $300k; back of envelope math.

I realize that he is a hometown hero and a cult star on the team, but we should ship him out during the summer if we can get a deal within spitting distance of that number. Even if TMac is only sold for 2/3 of his estimated value its still basically a max GAM deal in USD.

Right now I think TMac is in the exact same situation Poku was in right before we sold him. Basically a bench player who can come on occasionally, shows flashes of offensive brilliance, and probably worth more to the team as GAM than as a player.

If we've got the space for it we can get a real right back. Imagine having a player who has the offensive benefits of RJ and can actually defend as well. I doubt TMac's marketing value is worth more to NYCFC than the points that might put us over NJRB on the table. Basically doing a deal like this allows us to trade a bench player in a position we're stocked at, midfielder, for a starter in a position of real weakness RB.

Conducting the trade in the summer would obviously be more beneficial since we would have time to further discover whether TMac's services are genuinely required, for example as an offensive substitute if we decide to use a 3 back formation. And dealing in the summer allows us access to a cheaper pool of talent. Acquiring players on a free transfer is significantly more cap efficient, and we would only take a half season salary cap hit.

That said, if any prospective deal is not a max GAM or near max GAM deal I think we should pass it up. Transfermarkt could be inaccurate about his potential sale value thus for the purposes of this post I posited a situation where we are receiving a max or near max GAM deal.

So I put it to the board.
1. What are the flaws in my argument?
2. Is there a, "we should sell him" number that we can come to a broad consensus on?
3. I don't think selling him within MLS would be allow us to maximize his value as an asset. Agree/disagree.
4. Should I be burned at the stake for suggesting selling TMac your lord and savior?

Also TMac, if you actually read these boards I really like you as a person and as a player. But I think the best thing you could do to make the team stronger is allow yourself to be sold a la Poku.
I don't think we'd ever see an $850k transfer of him because there isn't a huge demand for his services outside of the US. What makes him attractive in MLS is that he's an American with technical skill in an ever-drying up pot of available talent. For us, his value is playing in the USOpen Cup with their min Americans on the field terms. That may not be enough to want to hold onto him if another MLS team (Minnesota) needed to upgrade their talent. I don't know what the max is we could get from another team, but clearing his salary plus the GAM/TAM (maybe 300?) would be tempting... any time a backup can be cleared while adding to our Cap War Chest, it's a win.
 
Just to add he also has an Irish passport so a move to Europe would be a little smoother.

I don't know how realistic that transfermarkt value. I think that T-Mac has a non-DP, American has tremendously MLS value. I think it makes a lot of sense if he does move to wait until the summer like you said. Lewis needs to beat him for the backup wing spot. We do run the risk if Maxi or Ring get hurt, that Mikey Lopez would be the CM replacement (please no).
 
Just to add he also has an Irish passport so a move to Europe would be a little smoother.

I don't know how realistic that transfermarkt value. I think that T-Mac has a non-DP, American has tremendously MLS value. I think it makes a lot of sense if he does move to wait until the summer like you said. Lewis needs to beat him for the backup wing spot. We do run the risk if Maxi or Ring get hurt, that Mikey Lopez would be the CM replacement (please no).
If maxi or ring get hurt, Herrera is the replacement. There's also stertzer and Camargo before turning to Lopez. And in a pinch Harrison since we have decent wing depth.
 
I don't think we'd get very much for him. Most teams wouldn't even spend $850k on a DP.

I'd try to keep a hold of T-Mac. Poku was dumped because of his attitude, and I don't really see that with T-Mac. Plus he's a local boy which is important to have on this team.
 
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I'm not certain he has that much value. Let's also consider that Dax McCarty was moved within the league for 400k of GAM.

I think perhaps we could trade him for another player within the league (Afful?) plus maybe a little GAM/TAM.
 
I DON'T CARE WHAT You people tell me with your facts and figures THIS CAN'T HAPPEN !! I'm really surprised anyone on this forum should Suggest this ! Who gets the Captains arm band when Villa's not there ? I'v said over and over Tommy is this teams present and future !

What's wrong with you people ?? JCMore can you believe this crap??? This damn forum has lost it ! How will you people feel if this get's back to Tommy ??? This is supposed to be a place of support for the team . Would any of you have the NERVE to speak about this to him ?? I bet he knows already what's been said.

Patrick Viera needs to use his brain and the money he's paid for and investment from the fan's to figure this out !! That is the Real Fans ! His problem shouldn't be Tommy's Heartbreak !!

Tommy should any of your people tell you about this BS !! .....PLEASE Know how much i respect you and admire your talent standing next Andrea and David keeping your head and showing everyone Who You Are !! Don't you worry about a thing Sweetie ! We Love You and Will Not Stand for this Shit !!

TEAM TOMMY OUR HEARTS ARE BLUE AND TRUE FOR YOU !!
 
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I agree that the Club couldn't get anywhere near $850k for T-Mac in MLS and I also don't see him commanding that number from Europe. He might get a look from second or third tier leagues in Europe but not many clubs of that level have the funds available to throw around $850k for him. I could see Tommy getting some interest from Scotland but not at those numbers. Only Celtic, and maybe Rangers, could spend that much but not on our boy.

ETA: I think I was actually being a little optimistic in my comments.

ETA2: Look at Perry Kitchen, who has had looks with the national team. Hearts were able to get him on a free after his D.C. United contract expired and ½ a season later he was made team captain. I could see a market for T-Mac at some smaller European clubs only but doubtful they'd pay us a significant fee.
 
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I'm not certain he has that much value. Let's also consider that Dax McCarty was moved within the league for 400k of GAM.

I think perhaps we could trade him for another player within the league (Afful?) plus maybe a little GAM/TAM.

GAM is also more valuable then straight dollar for dollar though. I highly doubt we'd be able to get $400k let alone $850K if we dealt within the league. The only way we get that much for him is if he moves abroad. Personally, can't see him really cracking a lineup in most of the Championship. He'd be a good fit in the 2.Bundesliga, but idk if he'd be willing to go to a foreign country with the language barrier.

It makes more sense to sell him abroad. We'd get 2/3 of the transfer fee as GAM (I believe) up to $625,000.
 
GAM is also more valuable then straight dollar for dollar though. I highly doubt we'd be able to get $400k let alone $850K if we dealt within the league. The only way we get that much for him is if he moves abroad. Personally, can't see him really cracking a lineup in most of the Championship. He'd be a good fit in the 2.Bundesliga, but idk if he'd be willing to go to a foreign country with the language barrier.

It makes more sense to sell him abroad. We'd get 2/3 of the transfer fee as GAM (I believe) up to $625,000.

I'd thought that I'd put that in my original post, but yes I'm assuming for the purposes of this discussion that we would sell him outside of the league, as GAM is worth vastly more within the league, but doesn't matter to a foreign team who would only be seeing the sticker price.
 
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Think City throws us a bone and can buy him so we receive max GAM and then they loan him right away?
 
Solution: Man City buys him from us. We get a max GAM transfer fee. Man City loans him back to us.
 
Think City throws us a bone and can buy him so we receive max GAM and then they loan him right away?

There's a rule for that.

There's actually a couple NYCFC rules, we're a solid second to the Galaxy in terms of rules the league adopted specifically because of us.

Related Party Transactions
All terms of any arrangements among an MLS Club, a related party club, and a Player to be signed to MLS shall be fully and fairly disclosed to the League Office. The player's MLS budget charge will generally be calculated based upon the related party club's contractual terms with the player (including any acquisition costs). The League Office shall make a final determination, in its sole discretion, as to the budget charge of such Player.

My Take: This one was officially changed after last year because of Angelino and Iraola if the rumors I'd heard were right. The old version is section 10.6(b) of the CBA. Read the old version vs the new version, its remarkably clear we pulled some shit; my bet's on the Iraola gambling debts thing. There used to be a formula

Transfers and Loans
An MLS player may be transferred or loaned at any time to a non-MLS club (subject to that club's Federation's transfer window), and subject to the consent of the player. Upon loaning a player, clubs will receive roster relief but not salary budget relief unless otherwise agreed to in the loan agreement.

My Take: aka NYCFC if you don't like a player you can't just loan him to MCFC and get cap space back, you must fix your roster over the course of a few years like the rest of MLS.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/images/Collective Bargaining Agreement - February 1, 2015.pdf

Btw, I've been meaning to put it out there but we probably got something like $1.1mm in GAM in year one. Which makes my numbers from the original salary cap thread actually square.

10.18 a: An expansion allocation shall be awarded to new Teams in those Teams’ first year in MLS at a minimum of $1,100,000 per expansion Team ($500,000 from MLS and $600,000 from the Team). MLS may increase either the total allocation per expansion Team or its portion of such allocation at its discretion.

Btw: that clause makes Adrian Heath and Jason Kreis look so much more freaking incompetent.
 
There's a rule for that.

There's actually a couple NYCFC rules, we're a solid second to the Galaxy in terms of rules the league adopted specifically because of us.

Related Party Transactions
All terms of any arrangements among an MLS Club, a related party club, and a Player to be signed to MLS shall be fully and fairly disclosed to the League Office. The player's MLS budget charge will generally be calculated based upon the related party club's contractual terms with the player (including any acquisition costs). The League Office shall make a final determination, in its sole discretion, as to the budget charge of such Player.

My Take: This one was officially changed after last year because of Angelino and Iraola if the rumors I'd heard were right. The old version is section 10.6(b) of the CBA. Read the old version vs the new version, its remarkably clear we pulled some shit; my bet's on the Iraola gambling debts thing. There used to be a formula

Transfers and Loans
An MLS player may be transferred or loaned at any time to a non-MLS club (subject to that club's Federation's transfer window), and subject to the consent of the player. Upon loaning a player, clubs will receive roster relief but not salary budget relief unless otherwise agreed to in the loan agreement.

My Take: aka NYCFC if you don't like a player you can't just loan him to MCFC and get cap space back, you must fix your roster over the course of a few years like the rest of MLS.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/images/Collective Bargaining Agreement - February 1, 2015.pdf

Btw, I've been meaning to put it out there but we probably got something like $1.1mm in GAM in year one. Which makes my numbers from the original salary cap thread actually square.

10.18 a: An expansion allocation shall be awarded to new Teams in those Teams’ first year in MLS at a minimum of $1,100,000 per expansion Team ($500,000 from MLS and $600,000 from the Team). MLS may increase either the total allocation per expansion Team or its portion of such allocation at its discretion.

Btw: that clause makes Adrian Heath and Jason Kreis look so much more freaking incompetent.
I think you're interpreting the second rule (loans) incorrectly, and there's nothing weird with it.

Part A: Any loaned player gets a team roster relief because it opens up a spot.

Part B: A team gets Cap relief if the new team agrees to pay part/all of the salary. Essentially, it's what MLS teams do to get good players w/o a transfer, but most euro teams don't operate that way; instead the euro Loaning team pays the salary to park a player somewhere they can get game experience. So if NYCFC wants to park a player, while picking up their salary, then no Cap relief is given. But if Raith Rovers wants TMac so badly that they're willing to pay his salary, then NYCFC gets whatever that portion is back in Cap relief. With your example, MCFC could take a player on Loan and pay the salary, and we'd that money freed up - the player probably wouldn't be happy because they aren't good enough to make the 1st team and MCFC couldn't reload the player to a 3rd party club, so they'd be in a practice/no game limbo.
 
Considering this is just a hobby of ours, it's pretty sad when some of these MLS staffs muck it all up.

To be fair they're mostly journalists. My respect for journalists on the whole basically falls every single time I turn on the news. Why should you expect the average MLS writer to pick up a copy of the CBA and try to understand the rules?

Unless your talking about the teams, which wouldn't make sense.
 
Our #3 goal scorer of all time. Great positional awearness. Can see the new training grounds from his bedroom window. Got to #keepT-mac.
To be fair, he's our #3 all time leading goal-scorer when getting playing time on the last two shit rosters, for an expansion club.

Its kind of like using that to claim that Matt Schaub or David Carr were good quarterbacks (#1 and #2 all time in Houston Texans history in passing yards).

I love TMac, great dude, love his attitude on the field, hell of a right foot, does put himself in dangerous positions, but he is slow for the wing and can't track back as well defensively, and doesn't operate well in tight spaces to play in the midfield in our formation. And again, he doesn't have the work rate that that spot needs defensively.

I like him coming off the bench for us this year, and think he can provide something there, but with our current roster makeup (along with JLew and Camargo coming up), I think he would provide us much much more if we were able to get some good GAM for him.

Just like in Poku. After we traded him away last year, we did lose the ability to bring in an offensive, physically imposing midfielder that we could have used later in the year. But his sale allowed us to bring in better players that in the long run, made our team better.