Union Postmatch

Well this answers the question why Shelton didn't do much vs. Union as he was subbed on.

http://www.nycfc.com/post/2017/04/17/shelton-miss-orlando-clash

Shelton will miss 4-6 with an hamstring injury. The exact medical diagnosis is undisclosed.

This would explain Khiry's snapchat story four hours ago of what we now know is a doctor's table.
Feel sorry for the guy, but I did not see anything out of the ordinary against Philly that I would attribute to an injury.
 
That makes sense. Which tells me he is a luxury in this league. It's great that he drags a defender away. But we don't have the other players to complement him doing that. Might as well play up the M-1 again then.
I think Ring and Maxi have gotten a lot of value out of dropping deep and shifting the point of offense. If they get covered too, then it opens up space elsewhere.

Sigh.
 
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That makes sense. Which tells me he is a luxury in this league. It's great that he drags a defender away. But we don't have the other players to complement him doing that. Might as well play up the M-1 again then.
I think "in this league" might be the key phrase to the two sides of the Pirlo issue. I was never an MLS fan before NYCFC, not really. I'd watch once in a blue moon but it didn't really interest me as I was a Man City fan and an EPL fan. For me, "this league" just didn't seem as good, as interesting. And to be honest, without NYCFC I'd still feel somewhat the same. Yes, the league is fast, athletic, strong, muscular. But to me it's not exactly the beautiful game. It's like being a fan of Triple A baseball. It's just not the majors, but if it's what you have you'll go to the games and enjoy them.

Which brings us to Pirlo.

His game is definitely not the MLS as he's lightyears ahead of this league. And you're totally right about not having players to complement him, and that he's a luxury when considering the rest of the season and the next one and the one after that. But I'd rather have a Pirlo-style league after 10 years of steady improvement than more guys who can run fast and knock you over. I want the kids in the u12 leagues trying to be Pirlo rather than trying to be Matarrita or Shelton.

I want the beautiful game, and more of it. That's why I support Pirlo.
 
I think "in this league" might be the key phrase to the two sides of the Pirlo issue. I was never an MLS fan before NYCFC, not really. I'd watch once in a blue moon but it didn't really interest me as I was a Man City fan and an EPL fan. For me, "this league" just didn't seem as good, as interesting. And to be honest, without NYCFC I'd still feel somewhat the same. Yes, the league is fast, athletic, strong, muscular. But to me it's not exactly the beautiful game. It's like being a fan of Triple A baseball. It's just not the majors, but if it's what you have you'll go to the games and enjoy them.

Which brings us to Pirlo.

His game is definitely not the MLS as he's lightyears ahead of this league. And you're totally right about not having players to complement him, and that he's a luxury when considering the rest of the season and the next one and the one after that. But I'd rather have a Pirlo-style league after 10 years of steady improvement than more guys who can run fast and knock you over. I want the kids in the u12 leagues trying to be Pirlo rather than trying to be Matarrita or Shelton.

I want the beautiful game, and more of it. That's why I support Pirlo.


And this brings us to the issues of DPs and how we spend our resources. I get the Pirlo signing. I still think it was the right move, all things being equal. I think the Lampard signing was the right move too.

But now we are onto Wave 2. And I don't know that we hit a homerun with Maxi just yet. We'll see.

Pirlo is just not a good utilization of a DP contract right now. He needs to fit into MLS as it is today, not 10 years from now
 
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And this brings us to the issues of DPs and how we spend our resources. I get the Pirlo signing. I still think it was the right move, all things being equal. I think the Lampard signing was the right move too.

But now we are onto Wave 2. And I don't know that we hit a homerun with Maxi just yet. We'll see.

Pirlo is just not a good utilization of a DP contract right now. He needs to fit into MLS as it is today, not 10 years from now

Even though the Lampard signing was a fiasco and he had health concerns...and Pirlo is an old finesse player in a brut league...they are still huge talents. I think we collectively thought we'd be signing players of that caliber, but at a more reasonable age going forward. So the Maxi signing is an obvious disappointment. He's good, but even in his best days, was never a "great" player. Lampard and Pirlo were great players, some of the best in the world. We struck gold with Villa, who is still a great player. Maybe are expectations are too high.

I would argue that our 3 DP spots are not considered equal value to the team. They might see it as.

DP 1 - Huge field impact, high level player
DP 2 - Big name marketing signing
DP 3 - Fringe player with larger league success

As a fan, I want all 3 DPs to have the impact that Villa gives, but to the team, it's still a business. But it's also a very new business, so I see the vision changing as it grows.

Or I'm just talking out my ass and the front office made mistakes and needs a change.
 
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But I'd rather have a Pirlo-style league after 10 years of steady improvement than more guys who can run fast and knock you over.
Then why do you watch the EPL and not Serie A or Mexico? They just let you stand around for ages on the ball in those leagues.

I submit you don't want things as tactical as you think you do. Try the Bundesliga. It's probably the best balance. And, as we all know, La Liga is somewhat below EPL/BL athletically and above them tactically, and light years above practically all of them technically.

All of this to say, I watch Liverpool and "big matches" from England because they are the most fun for me, definitely not because it's super-compelling tactically. I hate slow-paced play - peak Spain/tiki taka was horrendous to me.

I think Bundesliga has the best balance of everything, but it's not as compelling since FC Bayern are so much better than every other team (in BL or PL).
 
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Even though the Lampard signing was a fiasco and he had health concerns...and Pirlo is an old finesse player in a brut league...they are still huge talents. I think we collectively thought we'd be signing players of that caliber, but at a more reasonable age going forward. So the Maxi signing is an obvious disappointment. He's good, but even in his best days, was never a "great" player. Lampard and Pirlo were great players, some of the best in the world. We struck gold with Villa, who is still a great player. Maybe are expectations are too high.

I would argue that our 3 DP spots are not considered equal value to the team. They might see it as.

DP 1 - Huge field impact, high level player
DP 2 - Big name marketing signing
DP 3 - Fringe player with larger league success

As a fan, I want all 3 DPs to have the impact that Villa gives, but to the team, it's still a business. But it's also a very new business, so I see the vision changing as it grows.

Or I'm just talking out my ass and the front office made mistakes and needs a change.

There is something to this.

With Maxi, we still don't know for sure that he is a full DP, as it is always possible he is really a TAM player carrying a DP label for Salary Cap purposes while we wait to sign the next DP. Either way, it is clear that the team looked at the impact (no pun intended) that guys like Piatti, Lodiero and Valeri have on their teams and figured adding that kind of guy was necessary to build a Championship-level team.

If it were up to me, I would set it up like this:

DP 1 - An established, veteran player - hopefully, a Villa but at least a Lampard
DP 2 - A young DP, like the guys in Atlanta (and which is cheaper under the salary cap), who is athletic and could be sold for a good fee if he develops
DP 3 - A wild card based on team needs and elite player availability, who could be either of the above or somewhere in the middle

Each of these guys would ideally cost somewhere in the multiple millions, inclusive of transfer fee and salary - i.e. nobody who is just above the TAM line.
 
Then why do you watch the EPL and not Serie A or Mexico? They just let you stand around for ages on the ball in those leagues.

I submit you don't want things as tactical as you think you do. Try the Bundesliga. It's probably the best balance. And, as we all know, La Liga is somewhat below EPL/BL athletically and above them tactically, and light years above practically all of them technically.

All of this to say, I watch Liverpool and "big matches" from England because they are the most fun for me, definitely not because it's super-compelling tactically. I hate slow-paced play - peak Spain/tiki taka was horrendous to me.

I think Bundesliga has the best balance of everything, but it's not as compelling since FC Bayern are so much better than every other team (in BL or PL).
That's a long complicated answer that could go on for days as basically I'm into the EPL for incidental historical reasons. In the "olden" days that was all you could watch, for one, and then only a few games per weekend at that. And after the two EPL matches on Fox Soccer Channel you might get one Bundesliga but only if you were lucky. So I'd watch because I loved soccer, it was finally on TV during what used to be cartoon time, and it was pretty good. It took another few years and a random bit said by Rick Wakeman at a concert on Long Island before I started watching Man City more than the other teams.

So in a sense you're asking me for sound logical reasons why I watch the Premier League over other leagues and there really aren't any in particular. It's like asking why I'm a Mets fan rather than a Yankee fan. There's no particular reason, not really. I was two when the Mets started, so they were the lovable bums that captivated the whole city as I was growing up (although Mickey Mantle was one of my heroes as well, even though he was nearing the end of his career).

Anyway, I'm only on my first cup of coffee and am rambling a bit. Bottom line is that I do watch other leagues but I'm a *fan* of the EPL. The top EPL teams are excellent, and the bottom ones are, well, perhaps not so much. And I'm OK with that.
 
That's a long complicated answer that could go on for days as basically I'm into the EPL for incidental historical reasons. In the "olden" days that was all you could watch, for one, and then only a few games per weekend at that. And after the two EPL matches on Fox Soccer Channel you might get one Bundesliga but only if you were lucky. So I'd watch because I loved soccer, it was finally on TV during what used to be cartoon time, and it was pretty good. It took another few years and a random bit said by Rick Wakeman at a concert on Long Island before I started watching Man City more than the other teams.

So in a sense you're asking me for sound logical reasons why I watch the Premier League over other leagues and there really aren't any in particular. It's like asking why I'm a Mets fan rather than a Yankee fan. There's no particular reason, not really. I was two when the Mets started, so they were the lovable bums that captivated the whole city as I was growing up (although Mickey Mantle was one of my heroes as well, even though he was nearing the end of his career).

Anyway, I'm only on my first cup of coffee and am rambling a bit. Bottom line is that I do watch other leagues but I'm a *fan* of the EPL. The top EPL teams are excellent, and the bottom ones are, well, perhaps not so much. And I'm OK with that.
I get that, but my point (which I didn't make clear) is I don't know if I personally want MLS to ever be a league similar to Serie A. I like (value?) fast-paced matches much more, and I suspect you do, too, to some extent more than your previous post seemed to suggest.
 
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I get that, but my point (which I didn't make clear) is I don't know if I personally want MLS to ever be a league similar to Serie A. I like (value?) fast-paced matches much more, and I suspect you do, too, to some extent more than your previous post seemed to suggest.
OK, got it. And you could be right. Perhaps I'll see if I can watch a few Serie A matches in the near future. One problem is I just checked this weekend's schedule and none of them are on any cable channels I have, which is a bummer (and part of the problem). If I can watch some Serie A on a regular basis I'm more than happy to give it a shot.

And I have nothing against fast-paced and powerful. My "problem" with MLS though is that it's sometimes a bit too much bring-the-ball-upfield-and-then-mayhem-in-the-box.

(Not) ETA (because I looked this up before I originally posted): Looks like Serie A is on go90, so I should be able to watch some matches via Apple TV, which is cool.
 
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I get that, but my point (which I didn't make clear) is I don't know if I personally want MLS to ever be a league similar to Serie A. I like (value?) fast-paced matches much more, and I suspect you do, too, to some extent more than your previous post seemed to suggest.

I don't really think MLS ever really can become a Serie A or La Liga type league. Primarily because of how athlete development is structured in this country; from a young age the focus tends to be on bigger, faster and stronger. This is a deep cultural identity of American athletics training, and as much as a given academy may focus on technical skill and tactical acumen over strength training, the idea in a kid's head of the ideal athlete looks like some freak 245lb NFL RB.

American soccer will get a lot more tactical and technical as time goes forwards, but I don't think that we're anywhere near having some kind of la liga style tekkers only revolution.
 
OK, got it. And you could be right. Perhaps I'll see if I can watch a few Serie A matches in the near future. One problem is I just checked this weekend's schedule and none of them are on any cable channels I have, which is a bummer (and part of the problem). If I can watch some Serie A on a regular basis I'm more than happy to give it a shot.

And I have nothing against fast-paced and powerful. My "problem" with MLS though is that it's sometimes a bit too much bring-the-ball-upfield-and-then-mayhem-in-the-box.

(Not) ETA (because I looked this up before I originally posted): Looks like Serie A is on go90, so I should be able to watch some matches via Apple TV, which is cool.
Here's what I can't determine for myself that contradicts all of what I said before: Am I guilty of mistaking the packaging and production values for how much I enjoy a league? Personally, I don't think I'd ever love Serie A because it's so defensive a lot of the time. But given how much I watch BL even though the production sucks, I wonder if I would choose that as my favorite league if it weren't for my support of LFC and how well done the productions of it are done by NBC.

Fox just half-asses so hard. I remember back when they were trying Gus Johnson as an announcer, and he would actually be sent to UCL matches. Now, they have decent booth talent and stick them in a closet like BeIn does.
 
I don't really think MLS ever really can become a Serie A or La Liga type league. Primarily because of how athlete development is structured in this country; from a young age the focus tends to be on bigger, faster and stronger. This is a deep cultural identity of American athletics training, and as much as a given academy may focus on technical skill and tactical acumen over strength training, the idea in a kid's head of the ideal athlete looks like some freak 245lb NFL RB.

American soccer will get a lot more tactical and technical as time goes forwards, but I don't think that we're anywhere near having some kind of la liga style tekkers only revolution.
Maybe this is why a lot of the forum responds to pipsqueak Maxi with something like, "well, not sure he's really a DP."
 
American soccer will get a lot more tactical and technical as time goes forwards, but I don't think that we're anywhere near having some kind of la liga style tellers only revolution.
We're way, way off-subject here, but part of the issue has been that in order to stay open for business, academies need to win because winning attracts the "good players", etc. If you have to win tournaments to stay relevant and attractive to players/parents, then you end up choosing the more athletically mature players over the technically gifted ones. That was the problem for a really long time, but it's less so now.

Look at the technical ability of Pulisic, Josh Perez, Gedion Zelalem, Emerson Hyndman - basically, the u21 crowd who didn't go the college route - and you see a type of player that the US has struggled to produce in the past. I think we're just now starting to see a drip of this elite skill/talent that is antecedent to the faucet flowing freely. MLS academies will be a big part of it - the onus is no longer winning for winning's sake, but developing first team talents regardless of whether that talent hits puberty at 13 or 16.
 
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I don't really think MLS ever really can become a Serie A or La Liga type league. Primarily because of how athlete development is structured in this country; from a young age the focus tends to be on bigger, faster and stronger. This is a deep cultural identity of American athletics training, and as much as a given academy may focus on technical skill and tactical acumen over strength training, the idea in a kid's head of the ideal athlete looks like some freak 245lb NFL RB.

American soccer will get a lot more tactical and technical as time goes forwards, but I don't think that we're anywhere near having some kind of la liga style tekkers only revolution.

Great post. As a thought experiment, would it be enough for a full USMNT made up of guys 2" taller, 15 pounds heavier, and a little bit faster than their opponents be enough to win a World Cup someday? In other words, is being a physical league a problem, or just a characteristic?

I'd like to see futsal catch hold in this country as a counterweight.
 
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We're way, way off-subject here, but part of the issue has been that in order to stay open for business, academies need to win because winning attracts the "good players", etc. If you have to win tournaments to stay relevant and attractive to players/parents, then you end up choosing the more athletically mature players over the technically gifted ones. That was the problem for a really long time, but it's less so now.

Look at the technical ability of Pulisic, Josh Perez, Gedion Zelalem, Emerson Hyndman - basically, the u21 crowd who didn't go the college route - and you see a type of player that the US has struggled to produce in the past. I think we're just now starting to see a drip of this elite skill/talent that is antecedent to the faucet flowing freely. MLS academies will be a big part of it - the onus is no longer winning for winning's sake, but developing first team talents regardless of whether that talent hits puberty at 13 or 16.

Piling on this discussion:

I think the MLS should try to become the best TV experience for soccer. We might not have the best product on the field, but there's no reason why we can't present the hell out of it from a broadcast perspective. We should really be the leader in the world on that front and I think ESPN and FS1 could do a better job.

Great post. As a thought experiment, would it be enough for a full USMNT made up of guys 2" taller, 15 pounds heavier, and a little bit faster than their opponents be enough to win a World Cup someday? In other words, is being a physical league a problem, or just a characteristic?

I'd like to see futsal catch hold in this country as a counterweight.

Some say the US hasn't produce a world class striker because we're not big on Futsal. It makes a lot of sense to me. I imagine "indoor soccer" with hockey boards and endless nonstop play has probably slowed technical development in this country.

http://www.fifa.com/futsalworldcup/...he-football-greats-forged-futsal-1798909.html
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/29/futsal-us-soccer-inner-city-fc-harlem