1. Thank you for visiting our NYCFC forum! We invite you to REGISTER and join our growing member base in discussion! Registered members can join competitions and win monthly prizes. So what are you waiting for!? Join us! This is a great MLS community where you can discuss New York City Football Club and other MLS football teams as well as international and other domestic league teams.
  2. Use your NYCFC Forums Credits or 'Dan Bucks' to remove the ads.

    Use Credits or Become A Donor

What’s This About?

Discussion in 'NYCFC Supporters Discussion' started by NYCFC_Dan, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. SoupInNYC

    SoupInNYC Senior Member Elite Donor

    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    9,594
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    UES
    The most important step for me is for the supporters groups for which these guys belong to to take some action.

    But so far, they’ve just laughed this off (at least publicly)
     
    SanBartG likes this.
  2. SanBartG

    SanBartG Regular Member Elite Donor

    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    1,551
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    New Jersey
    My bigger concern is the club’s reaction but I don’t want tot minimize this cause it’s a huge issue also. I feel like it’s dangerous to belong to any group now because a small number can co-opt and redefine the whole for some ignorant agenda, at least optically.
     
    Christopher Jee and SoupInNYC like this.
  3. Christopher Jee

    Christopher Jee Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    6,290
    Trophy Points:
    323
    Third Rail released a statement to members on Facebook but not publicly. NYCSC also haven't made a public statement. I've heard rumors that they've been asked not to. I haven't been able to ask anybody face to face about whether that's true or not.

    On an individual level there has been some action. One of the Proud Boy-affiliated fans was confronted by an SC member.

    I think the groups are a lot more heterogenous than you'd imagine. That's just social identity theory though - people in your group are mixed, people outside are homogenous. We have to actively work to get beyond our biases and think of these people as individuals and not members of a group that we aren't a member of.

    That's another argument against doxxing IMO - it very firmly establishes the group barrier. If someone is shaming you because you are a member of a group, then it makes it that much more psychologically difficult to cross that group line publicly. It makes the ingroup that much more appealing and the outgroup that much more threatening. Which is why I think it's understandable that fewer individuals within these groups have been vocal about this publicly.

    Carrot not stick. Positive reinforcement vs negative reinforcement. Basic cat parenting lol.
     
    SoupInNYC, SanBartG and Kangaroo Jack like this.
  4. Kangaroo Jack

    Kangaroo Jack Regular Member

    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    2,267
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Where women glow and men plunder
    the only cats i like are cats in ghoul.
     
  5. SoupInNYC

    SoupInNYC Senior Member Elite Donor

    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    9,594
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    UES
    That's fair. I'm a Third Rail member (though not very active) and saw that statement and do realize now that they haven't said anything publicly. The only things I saw from NYCSC (to be fair, I am not a member), was these two tweets:



    Not the best of looks IMO.

    On this part, I would agree with you, except when it comes to people that are actively participating in hate groups. That whole group's basis is shaming other individuals based on their ethnicity, race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. That is not socially acceptable.

    I'm not certain if I'm talking about shaming these individuals. But moreso calling them out and noting that this is not socially acceptable. I can't think of any instances where this has crossed the line (though I'm certain there are instances which it has).
     
  6. BxLio91

    BxLio91 Senior Member Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    5,856
    Likes Received:
    9,911
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    The Trap
    Don't wanna.
     
  7. Kangaroo Jack

    Kangaroo Jack Regular Member

    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    2,267
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Where women glow and men plunder
    toys r us is out of business. you dont have a choice
     
    Schwallacus likes this.
  8. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    6,294
    Likes Received:
    14,726
    Trophy Points:
    353
    Location:
    LBNY
    They might be coming back.
     
  9. Christopher Jee

    Christopher Jee Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    6,290
    Trophy Points:
    323
    Thanks for pointing me to that particular thread. I was involved somewhere on that branch but somehow missed it. Twitter could probably do a better job of defragmenting these discussions.

    I think the thread builds upon the point I'm making. There is a ton of hostility there. There's even a seemingly neutral interjection from a Revs fan and he gets ridiculed and shamed. Tribal instincts tell us not to listen to the people who are shaming us even if it makes sense to.

    I don't think there's anything "wrong" with calling people out. I just don't think it's effective. The person calling them out doesn't get them to comply. The person getting called out doesn't get fairly represented. Worst of all, they are both distracted from the fact that they have common cause. Unless you count the ingroup validation, it's a lose-lose, so it's only "wrong" in that sense.
     
  10. BxLio91

    BxLio91 Senior Member Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    5,856
    Likes Received:
    9,911
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    The Trap
    You whatabouted (very likely not a word) about Antifa as a certain group tends to do when the far right is being discussed. May not be a duck but certainly quacking like one.
     
  11. BxLio91

    BxLio91 Senior Member Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    5,856
    Likes Received:
    9,911
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    The Trap
    No man. Age is like in your head man. It's a social construct dude.
    [​IMG]
     
    Christopher Jee likes this.
  12. SanBartG

    SanBartG Regular Member Elite Donor

    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    1,551
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    New Jersey

    And my point about violent non political groups as another example which you so conveniently chose to ignore? You don’t have to answer. You’re obviously not interested in understanding what i’m saying as much as you are dismissing it which is why you continue to ignore pertinent counter arguments and ignore the fact that I have REPEATEDLY SAID I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT PROUD BOYS.

    if I were excusing proud boys because of anti-fa, you’d be right. But i’m not... CAUSE PROUD BOYS ARE IGNORANT THUGS AND I DONT WANT THEM ANYWHERE NEAR THE CLUB.
     
    Christopher Jee likes this.
  13. LionNYC

    LionNYC Senior Member Staff Member Elite Donor Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    13,797
    Likes Received:
    23,781
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    New York, NY
    FAO Schwarz is back. Being a kid is okay!
     
  14. SanBartG

    SanBartG Regular Member Elite Donor

    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    1,551
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Get out! Seriously?! This is exciting news.
     
    Christopher Jee likes this.
  15. SoupInNYC

    SoupInNYC Senior Member Elite Donor

    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    9,594
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    UES
    Perhaps I'm being a bit obtuse here then. But if you don't call someone out for being a discriminatory asshole, do we just let them continue to be discriminatory assholes?

    I understand there's a balance between calling someone out and being hostile. And especially on social media platforms, things get a bit out of hand (one of our most respected posters on this board experienced this not too long ago, which interestingly enough was related to calling out those being violent at YS - or at the least, informing authorities - don't want to get back into all of that).

    Perhaps I find this to be a puzzling question to ask because I don't see any reason to be hostile with anyone, in person, or online, so can easily go through with calling someone out. Whereas, the vast majority, or at least, the vast vocal majority (online especially), don't seem to be able to communicate with one another on items like this without being hostile.
     
  16. BxLio91

    BxLio91 Senior Member Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    5,856
    Likes Received:
    9,911
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    The Trap
    If that was your only stance without whataboutism you wouldn't have had to type dissertations because no one would have questioned where you stood. Your whataboutism misrepresented you.
     
  17. SanBartG

    SanBartG Regular Member Elite Donor

    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    1,551
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I said that in earlier pages of the thread. Repeatedly. You and others just ignored it.

    ETA: in any case, if it’s clear now and you’re acknowledging that i’m not a neo-nazi or apologist, thanks. I’m just not sure if that’s what’s happening.
     
    Christopher Jee likes this.
  18. Christopher Jee

    Christopher Jee Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    6,290
    Trophy Points:
    323
    I thought we were talking about calling out people who are associated (strongly or weakly) with people who (we think) are discriminatory assholes. Not the (so-called) discriminatory assholes.

    I'm not trying to be coy - I really do think the lines are both fine and blurred and have been crossed indiscriminately (pun intended).

    I think either way, engaging as directly and non-violently as possible makes sense. When it's not possible, we can rely on democratically determined processes and institutions.

    In the end, I think that part of living in pluralistic democracies is having to settle for being caught between "being uncomfortable about something" and "not being able to find a fair way to draw a line between what is acceptable and unacceptable so that we can only get rid of that which makes us uncomfortable without getting rid of things that we are comfortable with and like". That doesn't mean not attempting to negotiate that line, but I think it has to happen non-violently and peacefully.
     
    SoupInNYC, SanBartG and Kangaroo Jack like this.
  19. BxLio91

    BxLio91 Senior Member Seasoned Supporter

    Messages:
    5,856
    Likes Received:
    9,911
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    The Trap
    I can only give you the benefit of the doubt since I don't personally know you. I want to believe the people who support our club are better than that which is why I may come off antagonistic when it seems like certain things are tolerated.
     
    Christopher Jee likes this.
  20. SoupInNYC

    SoupInNYC Senior Member Elite Donor

    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    9,594
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    UES
    This helps explain it, haha. I was not talking about calling out people who are associated with discriminatory assholes, I was talking about calling out the discriminatory assholes.

    This is well put. While today's society has many issues, I believe our inability to 1) admit when we're wrong, 2) listen to each other, and 3) be able to have tough conversations with each other without being confrontational is at the root of nearly all of the issues our society faces.
     
    Schwallacus, Sabo, Mario and 2 others like this.

Share This Page