2019 Roster Discussion

[mgarbowski]

When you look at the chart above, it's easy to spot the difference in player recruiting during Vieira's tenure. It looks very bleak at the moment, and although anything is possible, I'm not expecting Torrent to be able to strengthen the team. Quite the opposite.

That's true comparing 2018 to 2019, but the team did no better in Vieira's first two years than it has to date in 2019. In 2016 and 2017 combined, at this point on the calendar, we acquired:

2016
Ethan White (trade)
Harrison (draft/trade)
2017
Okoli (Acquired via undisclosed means from FC Cincinnati)
Sean Johnson (trade)
Camargo (loan)
Lewis (draft/trade)

The only people we recruited, as opposed to acquiring with no regard to their preference, were Camargo and maybe Okoli. And maybe not even Camargo. Who knows how that loan was arranged and how much input he had. Apparently it took 2 years for PV to build up the rep that made players want to sign. In 2017 our best guess is that Moralez was at best Plan B for our DP.

Hell, look at our entire 2016 class. In addition to the 2 listed above, we signed Matarrita, Martinez, Lopez, Brillant and Bravo, then Gomez, Rawls and Mendoza. That's not all that impressive. Matarrita has been solid-ish, when not hurt. Brillant was a step up to be sure but limited. Mendoza and Bravo had moments but were recognized as flawed even in 2016. The rest? I had to look Martinez up and none of the others contributed much except for minutes and enthusiasm from Lopez. I'm kind of amazed how well we finished in 2016, especially compared to 2015. Really I think it came down to Harrison and Lampard showing up about one-third into the season and they tore it up for about 20-25 games. But I don't credit PV for that, at least not in terms of player acquisition.

None of which makes me feel better about the current status of recruiting and Torrent's ability to help. Plus we won't have a Harrison/Lampard-level duo arriving midseason this year. But PV didn't really do better in making players want to come here than Torrent has at comparable points in their time here.

 

[SoupInNYC]

I know we’re taking that quote and noting how such impactful DPs have come from South America in the winter, but I thought most of the board here was in agreement that this team needs a big name with Villa departing? Perhaps not all of us were, but I thought that is where we were standing.

I don’t see how we can do that without waiting until the summer.

 

[SoupInNYC]

I said the same thing last year, when we signed whoever the fuck that kid is that never played for us.

Signing a goalkeeper in round one just shows we don't really care about the draft.

And I’m not sure why we should care about the draft unless we had a pick in the top 5.

Reyna has been on record in the past as saying something along the lines of American keepers are really the only value in the draft, and that’s probably why they took Caldwell last year because what other help are they really gonna get. So I think they took Caldwell, not because they were high on him necessarily, but figured it was a low risk lottery ticket.

I’m guessing that they are actually high on this keeper and are looking for him to be the #2. I know I posted about him coming from my alma mater, and while I am excited about that, I really don’t know much about him.

I don’t think we have the same reaction we have now if we didn’t take Caldwell last year (which, again, I don’t think they really rate him that high, was just the thought of, who the fuck else are we gonna take here). And obviously we don’t have the same reaction if we didn’t spent the 75k in GAM. This part I actually think is a viable argument as to why we’re upset about the pick.

Also, spending the GAM to trade up and take Awuah doesn’t help at all.

 

[gbservis]

That's true comparing 2018 to 2019, but the team did no better in Vieira's first two years than it has to date in 2019. In 2016 and 2017 combined, at this point on the calendar, we acquired:

2016
Ethan White (trade)
Harrison (draft/trade)
2017
Okoli (Acquired via undisclosed means from FC Cincinnati)
Sean Johnson (trade)
Camargo (loan)
Lewis (draft/trade)

The only people we recruited, as opposed to acquiring with no regard to their preference, were Camargo and maybe Okoli. And maybe not even Camargo. Who knows how that loan was arranged and how much input he had. Apparently it took 2 years for PV to build up the rep that made players want to sign. In 2017 our best guess is that Moralez was at best Plan B for our DP.

Hell, look at our entire 2016 class. In addition to the 2 listed above, we signed Matarrita, Martinez, Lopez, Brillant and Bravo, then Gomez, Rawls and Mendoza. That's not all that impressive. Matarrita has been solid-ish, when not hurt. Brillant was a step up to be sure but limited. Mendoza and Bravo had moments but were recognized as flawed even in 2016. The rest? I had to look Martinez up and none of the others contributed much except for minutes and enthusiasm from Lopez. I'm kind of amazed how well we finished in 2016, especially compared to 2015. Really I think it came down to Harrison and Lampard showing up about one-third into the season and they tore it up for about 20-25 games. But I don't credit PV for that, at least not in terms of player acquisition.

None of which makes me feel better about the current status of recruiting and Torrent's ability to help. Plus we won't have a Harrison/Lampard-level duo arriving midseason this year. But PV didn't really do better in making players want to come here than Torrent has at comparable points in their time here.

By his third year it was evident that PV was a draw with players like Ring saying he came in large part to learn from PV. You make a good point that there was what appeared to be a lag in his impact. I'm super down on the competence of our FO office right now so I'd be willing to consider the possibility that it took them 2 years to figure out that it helps to put our world cup winning all time legend of a coach on the phone with people that we are trying to recruit. I honestly think the might be that dense.

More generally we are about to find out if there will be recruiting challenges without being able to say coming here means being coached by PV and playing alongside names like Villa, Lampard, and Pirlo. Something tells me saying hey guys our coach is friends with Pep likely won't have quite the same allure.

 

[ZYanksRule]

But if they don't care why do they keep burning GAM to go up and get guys? None of this makes any sense.

Because they'd rather sign a guy out of the draft than pick him and not sign him? At the No. 19 pick, let's say this goalie was gone -- was there another target they had who had a chance to make the team? At least this way they'll almost definitely sign the guy.

 

[mgarbowski]

Also, spending the GAM to trade up and take Awuah doesn’t help at all.

Hell, spending GAM to trade up to get Lewis has been a bust so far, even if it's not his fault.

 

[ZYanksRule]

So many things to pull from that. And fuck this piece of shit mediocre club.

Is it difficult to recruit in the winter? Absolutely. But guess what, money talks. Chelsea announced a £60 million deal for Pulisic that takes affect in July. Go spend some money.

He mentions Europe. Does he not know that the best MLS DPs have come from South America? Or Mexico? Go do your fucking business there.

I agree you can replace one player with three if we’re talking about goals. What you can’t do in MLS is spread $6 million of salary across three other players. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

If you read that quote and are anything but hopeful, you need a lobotomy.

If Dome spoke perfect English, I'd be with you. I care far more about Reyna's thoughts on these topics because I'm not sure Dome has the ability to articulate exactly what he's thinking. I'm absolutely not convinced on Dome after what he did last season, but I'm also willing to let the process play out before I get angry.

 

[Ulrich]

I read it worse than sleight of hand because deception would require understanding, if you take it on face value Dome is possibly saying take the Villa money and spread it across 3 players. To me the quote reads like he doesn't understand the roster rules or the DP slot.

If that’s the case, it confirms that Dome is lazy. If he didn’t learn the rules over the off-season, he doesn’t give a shit about the team or the league, because about the only thing he can do between seasons is scout and he’s not doing that full time. He can’t develop tactics without having a set roster since doing that will ultimately mean making players conform to a system rather than playing to their strengths, and we saw how that worked for him last year.

And if it’s simply a language issue, just stop having him talk, because it’s embarrassing.

 

[BxLio91]

Since MENDOZAAAAAAA was mentioned, he started for Amiens against PSG. Game is 0-0 at halftime.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

One thing to remember is that if we add a DP, we likely will lose the ability to add Keaton Parks on a permanent basis if there is a buy option for his loan.

 

[mgarbowski]

One thing to remember is that if we add a DP, we likely will lose the ability to add Keaton Parks on a permanent basis if there is a buy option for his loan.

Maxi is signed through 2020? Did he have a 4-year deal to start?

 

[LionNYC]

I think the most shocking thing about this quote, is that we have this quote. Someone managed to get Dome Torrent to say something about the roster build without the communications there to shut him up.

EDIT: A few other thoughts...

Players explicitly said they came to NYCFC to play under Patrick Vieira. That isn't nearly the same as Dome Torrent. Nobody is going to come out and they want to play for Pep's number 2. So that makes the recruiting of players, even star players more difficult. You'll be playing in a baseball stadium. You're playing for an affiliate team of Manchester City. Vieira leaving is having more ripples effects than just the 2018 season collapse.

I'm growing more and more pessimistic that CFG doesn't care about this team. It's just a badge and a city then can put on marketing materials. There is by no means the same intensity and effort to compete for MLS Cup like the likes of Atlanta or even Toronto in terms of player signings. Why aren't we spending $10M for each DP and breaking transfer record fees? Are costs really an issue? If we're here to develop talent, why aren't we starting 2 homegrown players a game? This is very disheartening.

 

[dummyrun]

I think the most shocking thing about this quote, is that we have this quote. Someone managed to get Dome Torrent to say something about the roster build without the communications there to shut him up.

To his credit, Dome has always been open with the press as long as they don't ask him why Berget didn't make the squad.

 

[LionNYC]

To his credit, Dome has always been open with the press as long as they don't ask him why Berget didn't make the squad.

""This SuperDraft was a fucking disaster." - LionNYC" - Dome Torrent

 

[ZYanksRule]

""This SuperDraft was a fucking disaster." - LionNYC" - Dome Torrent

Hey speaking of that ... anyone know what happened to Christian Araos on Twitter?

 

[Jock]

And I’m not sure why we should care about the draft unless we had a pick in the top 5.

I think the old romantic in me always wants us to unearth a player in the draft and have him become a solid part of our roster

But that is two years in a row where our first round pick is pretty unlikely to get any minutes.

Totally take the point that this guy could be brought in to be a number 2 goalie - surely can't be any worse than Stuver!

 

[ZYanksRule]

I think the old romantic in me always wants us to unearth a player in the draft and have him become a solid part of our roster

But that is two years in a row where our first round pick is pretty unlikely to get any minutes.

Totally take the point that this guy could be brought in to be a number 2 goalie - surely can't be any worse than Stuver!

The odds of ever getting a useful player out of the draft are very slim. The college game does not prep players well enough so many of the good ones don't play college soccer. Plus with most MLS teams having solid academies these days, those seem to be better at developing talent nowadays. It wouldn't surprise me if they did away with the draft completely within a few years.

How many guys come out of the draft and ever become good players in MLS? Maybe 2 or 3 a season?

 

[LionNYC]

Hey speaking of that ... anyone know what happened to Christian Araos on Twitter?

I heard he got a free first class one way ticket to Abu Dhabi.

 

[Nmc]

No fan of Scottish football, but signed up just to post a defense. Excuse my skepticism of your assertions.

You with a picture of Klopp. Ha ha.

 

[Nmc]

Ring said in an interview last year that the MLS is much better than the 2nd Bundesliga, and the best MLS teams would hold ground in the 1st BL (and he's played there himself). Are you suggesting that Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs could compete with the likes of RB Leipzig, Gladbach etc.?

No I think Scottish Football is s*** but the MLS is somewhere between Championship and League One.