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A Letter to Patricof

Discussion in 'NYCFC Supporters Discussion' started by FootyLovin, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. Nick Chavez

    Nick Chavez Newbie

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    He said "We have better standards than Central America" ("puto" chant is in Mexico, by the way, which is part of North America and not considered part of Central America). That can be considered highly offensive, and rightfully so.

    As I said, if you want people to follow your moral rules of not offending anyone, follow those rules yourself. Don't be a hypocrite. And if he didn't mean it, he better be more careful with his words because ones words is all we have to go by.
     
  2. Vallos

    Vallos Junior Member Elite Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    How about chants based on opposing teams each time they visit. So in addition to developing traditional home team chants, we develop the same way for visiting teams. For instance, Red Bulls would be Jersey. Orlando would be kittens. Toronto would be Tree saps (Maple tree connotation), admittedly corny, but you get the gist. Something funny and mischievous.
     
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  3. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    I really didn't want to get too involved in this, but I'm sorry some moral standards ARE BETTER, and we can't be too PC about that and claim offense. When gay men are hung in the street in Iran, or bulls are slaughtered for fun by a matador in Spain, women are treated as chattel in Saudi Arabia, or Puto is chanted by tens of thousands of people in a Central American stadium; all these things are wrong. Yes, they may be culturally acceptable in the nation they occur and there are many people in each instance standing around cheering for each one of those things. But they are not cheering because it's morally equivalent to our standards, it's because they have been brought up in a society with a flawed morality when it comes to those (and maybe other) issues. When something is wrong, we must call it out as wrong if the world is ever to grow and change for the better. Can I place blame or claim moral outrage at the soccer fan that chants Puto in their stadium in Mexico? No, nor can I do the same for the cannibal in Borneo who eats a tourist. They were both brought up in a society with distinct mores, but their actions are still WRONG, even if I can't blame them for not realizing it. You don't eat people, you don't kill innocent animals for sport, you don't hang men for their sexual preference, you don't take away all of someone's rights because they are a woman, and you don't join in a crowd to chant any word that is offensive & alienating to another group (especially if they may be right there in the crowd!).

    So please don't go and get offended when we make morality judgements, sometimes they must be made to tell the difference between right and wrong.

    Now back to the issue at hand. These people chanting may have been brought up in a different society with different mores, and I can't blame them for not realizing the chant is offensive because of that. But now they have no excuse, they are aware and they also made a conscience choice to move here to NYC, one of the most free and accepting cities in the world. So, figure it out and treat other people with the respect that you just asked for when crying over a comparison over whose society is better.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  4. Ulrich

    Ulrich Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    And again, you're taking something out of context - on this thread, WTF cares if he referred to North America or Central America - the context of the statement was about what is deemed socially acceptable in a Mexican Stadium & society (you're smart enough to recognize that, and even if you aren't, your notorious powers of clairvoyance should have guided you) vs what is socially acceptable in the United States, or more specifically in New York City.

    Any offense taken by a Mexican being labeled as somebody from Central America is akin to a Canadian being confused with an American - it just isn't there because it isn't derogatory, it's ignorance. Something highly offensive would be what my grandfather was called growing up, a yid or a kike - the purest form of hate speech. The offense felt from the Puto chant, to anybody from the LGBT community is immense, and it's unacceptable - it's also hate speech whether directed at them or around them.

    Surely you can see the difference because it's not difficult and it's not hypocritical and everybody but you seems to understand that telling somebody to refrain from using hate speech is not an act of offending them.
     
  5. engine46

    engine46 Junior Member Seasoned Supporter

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    I don't get it. It only took a few days to spread the word that "Come on, New York" was happening in the fifth minute, and it happened. Why is stopping this one turning out to be so difficult?
     
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  6. anamorican

    anamorican Newbie Seasoned Supporter

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    "The UN geoscheme for "North America" separates Mexico from the United States and Canada, placing it instead within its designated "Central America" region."

    We can take it up with UN, some of them are probably still in town. I didn't want to leave out anyone in Guatemala or Honduras screaming hateful things.
     
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  7. leilanikali420

    leilanikali420 Regular Member Seasoned Supporter

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    I have been off of the Forums for about 2 weeks - as the tweens say "because...life"

    If it is not too late - FootyLovinFootyLovin please add my name to anything that speaks out against this ridiculously deplorable chant. And for what it is worth from my view from 136 I have seen Rox try to stop the chant on multiple occasions - and then watched the people in 137 basically tell him to F-Off and do the chant. It is sad.

    In our second year we have a great opportunity to continue to build something from the ground up and some fans choose to act willfully or deliberately ignorant under the guise of supporting as they do in other cultures - whether it be this chant or "hooliganism".

    This is NYC. It is not Mexico, Central/South America, Philadephia, Spain, the Middle East, or Russia. No P*to chants. No hate speech. No throwing debris on the pitch. No monkey noises. No smoke bombs. No fist fights with "rival supporters." No sexual assault. It is a really simple list and can be filed under "decency".
     
  8. NYCFC_Dan

    NYCFC_Dan Senior Member Staff Member Seasoned Supporter

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  9. derek_villa

    derek_villa Active Member Seasoned Supporter

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    had to bitch out some people in 214a in the first half...smh
     
  10. LionNYC

    LionNYC Senior Member Staff Member Elite Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    Yeah, I heard it tonight. In the first half from the first base side and then also in the second half.
     
  11. gbservis

    gbservis Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    The chant was relentless in 134 tonight. Truly disgusting. All attempts to call them out for their crap unfortunately only seemed to encourage them. I didn't think I could dislike those that participate in this chant anymore until I started thinking about it tonight. All of last season when we sucked, no p*to chant, when we got off to a slow start at the beginning of this year no p*to chant, we start winning, we are about to make the playoffs and the stupid p*to chant is everywhere. Not only do these aholes have questionable morals but they are also clearly despicable front runners. Are we allowed to despise fair weather, front runner fans, or is that some sort of cultural misunderstanding too?
     
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  12. Fantazma

    Fantazma Senior Member Seasoned Supporter

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    Lots moral high horse around here, nevertheless the efforts are to be continued I know some people were kicked out in supporters sections and I heard there was massive presence of securitas in between 236/237

    One thing is for sure, those that did it will probably chant it more now that it's been brought up. Only concern is that the wrong people get kicked out, I've heard people get kicked out / banned for other things when it wasn't them who did it (like all the smoke bomb stuff last year)
     
  13. SoupInNYC

    SoupInNYC Senior Member Elite Donor

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    Was in 237 last night and the chant seemed to calm down a bit, but there was still a decent amount of people getting it going, especially in the second half when Johnson had his back to us.

    I thought the blue sheets were a great move by the club. I didn't visually see it happening, but I'm quite certain a few people got tossed for yelling "p*to". I remember one girl in front of me complaining that this was bullshit, its a soccer game, etc. etc. so I assumed one of her friends got tossed.

    I considered going over and talking to her but decided against it as I'm not certain she really would have listened to me as her and her friends were sounding off.

    Ultimately, the team served notice, and people still did it. Its not "bullshit" that they were tossed for something they were warned about. "Its a soccer game" holds ZERO weight with me. This isn't a place where hate and homophobia are allowed.
     
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  14. SoupInNYC

    SoupInNYC Senior Member Elite Donor

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    So what do you think Nick ChavezNick Chavez ? Several people were tossed last night for chanting this and I don't think this is something that is easily going to go away.

    Considering the platform you have, the twitter following you have, the nuances you have spoken about this situation, would you consider getting something out there calling for this to stop?

    You mention there may be confusion as to the meaning of the word. The gay community here in NYC finds it offensive, the club deems it as offensive and as grounds for removal. Helping to clear this up can only help the cause for removing hateful speech from our supporters section (and I also really don't like being associated with a hateful supporters group), and will help ensure that others are not tossed from future games.

    You asked for ideas on how you can help, I think this is a good start. I'm definitely open to keep this dialogue going.
     
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  15. LionNYC

    LionNYC Senior Member Staff Member Elite Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/pro-sports-leagues-fly-the-rainbow-flag

    It would have been great if NYCFC could have been included in this article, you know, with that pride night that was supposed to happen vs. LA.

    "JoAnn Neale, Major League Soccer’s chief administrative officer, says her league’s goal is to create what she calls a “safe place” for everyone, fans and athletes alike, by not tolerating any discrimination at the stadium. MLS rules prohibit homophobic slurs."
     
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  16. SoupInNYC

    SoupInNYC Senior Member Elite Donor

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    Thanks for sharing this Lion. Definitely would have been great to have been included in this article, but not sure some of the actions from our supporters sections help with that.

    We definitely could use some help from our local writers who have a decent platform to help extinguish that. I know Nick ChavezNick Chavez mentioned he was willing to listen to ideas on how he can help.
     
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  17. Nick Chavez

    Nick Chavez Newbie

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    IF I write anything about the puto chant, it will be done my way. That means some of you might not like or totally agree with some of the things I have to say or how I frame it, but remember, this isn't about you or how you feel. It's about being pragmatic and effective in convincing the people I need to convince to volunteer to stop yelling puto. Because it is their choice, at the end of the day.

    Shaming them, pontificating to them or misrepresenting their intentions will not be effective, so I will not be doing that. I will be honestly reasoning with them, considering their views, and considering how they feel about all of it, if anything.

    Just keep that in mind if/when a piece about it comes out and don't be surprised about it. The most important thing is that it's effective.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
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  18. northernburbs

    northernburbs Regular Member Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    For what its worth
    This guy has 850 followers on twitter.
    our own mgarbowskimgarbowski has about 3000.
     
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  19. SoupInNYC

    SoupInNYC Senior Member Elite Donor

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    Completely understand that. Like I said, I think you understand some of the intricacies involved and are probably a good voice that understands the acceptability of this in other cultures but how this comes across as offensive here.

    And I understand what you mean by convincing them to volunteer to stop yelling p*to. But also understand, that YS security is now starting to throw people out after warning the whole supporters section. So its also be the choice of Securitas/Yankee Stadium policy.

    Appreciate your willingness on this Nick ChavezNick Chavez
     
  20. adam

    adam Senior Member Elite Donor Donor Seasoned Supporter

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    SoupInNYC and FootyLovin like this.

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