Cincinnati (Away) - Postmatch

[mgarbowski]

That’s where my head is at. Teams have limited windows to win (especially in a capped league). Look how dominant Toronto was a couple years back, and now look at them. This is our time. There is a great base of talent on this team. It only needs a couple DPs to put them over the top and have us dominating like LAFC. But we didn’t go that way pre-season. And then mid-season when the club saw we are so close, didn’t bother to at the very least trade out Medina for a difference maker to make the extra push for a title. That’s why I feel they really don’t give a damn.

But when you consider what they paid for Mitrita, it's hard to say they're not committed or trying. Poor judgment, bad decisions and scouting, yes. And in the absence of even a Twitter rumour about an offer for Medina, there's nothing to that complaint. If there's no interest and no market, not even enough to support a story in the The Sun or similar outlets, then there's less than zero real possibility of moving him, and you can't cut a guy midseason, take the loss, and get cap relief. They had no options.

 

[adam]

But when you consider what they paid for Mitrita, it's hard to say they're not committed or trying. Poor judgment, bad decisions and scouting, yes. And in the absence of even a Twitter rumour about an offer for Medina, there's nothing to that complaint. If there's no interest and no market, not even enough to support a story in the The Sun or similar outlets, then there's less than zero real possibility of moving him, and you can't cut a guy midseason, take the loss, and get cap relief. They had no options.

You can sell for a loss or even loan out. Especially when you own other clubs who can make that purchase/loan. There were options, the club chose not to take it.

I didn’t complain about Mitri. But my gripe there would be to go for a more polished player when the club itself is a finished product. Take your chances on the Mitri type of lotto ticket in a rebuilding year. This season called for a tried and true player who could be counted on to replace Villa’s production. If anything, it showed lack of creativity to copy the ATL model when it wasn’t strategically sensical based on the team’s construction.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Believe me - CFG is committed. They may not always make the right decisions, but they are putting a lot of money into the Club year-over-year and they are getting ready to cut a $500 million check for a stadium.

 

[Gotham Gator]

It's also worth noting the following. Our finish in the Supporters' Shield standings each year. A Club whose ownership doesn't care isn't going to do this well.

2015: 17th
2016: 4th
2017: 2nd
2018: 7th
2019: 3rd (so far)

 

[mgarbowski]

You can sell for a loss or even loan out.

To who? Point me to one damn rumor. If he wanted to move his agent would be floating all sorts of BS to get things moving. I agree: He has a low-ish salary. There should be takers. But there was nothing. I have to think he's content to sit here and be miserable, or his agent actually tried and couldn't even get s rumor floated. He's absolute worthless dead weight with no apparent ambition. Mix showed more interest in playing than this guy does.

By the way, after Atlanta he was a DNP for 10 games and NYCFC has officially extended its perfect record of having at least one DP every year miss at least 10 games.

Especially when you own other clubs who can make that purchase/loan.

You want us taking the detritus of other CFG teams? It's a 2-way deal or unrealistic to expect them to do that.

 

[sundance]

they are getting ready to cut a $500 million check for a stadium.

do you have something you want to share with the class

 

[adam]

Point me to one damn rumor.

You want us taking the detritus of other CFG teams? It's a 2-way deal or unrealistic to expect them to do that.

1 damn Medina rumor:

Report: Patrick Vieira's Nice make bid for NYCFC's Jesus Medina | MLSSoccer.com

Report: Vieira's Nice make bid for NYCFC's Medina

www.mlssoccer.com

We are in a capped league. So it’s different for us to take on dead weight salary, compared to let’s say Girona or Torque.

 

[LionNYC]

Believe me - CFG is committed. They may not always make the right decisions, but they are putting a lot of money into the Club year-over-year and they are getting ready to cut a $500 million check for a stadium.

The check was penned in 2014, don't know if they ripped up the one under the Bloomberg administration plan, but it's always been there, just needs to be deposited...whenever that will be?

 

[Gotham Gator]

do you have something you want to share with the class

I did a few weeks back in the Stadium Thread.

 

[sundance]

I did a few weeks back in the Stadium Thread.

Yeah, I’d kind of classed that with the group of “we’ll announce in June 2019” rumors, although I now see you posted it in early July. I was hoping for an update. At this point I actually feel pretty optimistic—Signs point to yes—but I’d really like to know what “close” actually means.

Okay. It's time for me to come clean with some things I've been hearing on the Stadium. These come variously from three people at firms that are consulting for NYCFC on different aspects of the project and one person high up at the Club. Two of the three consultants were people I spoke with 3 months ago or so. The other conversations, which provide most of the information, were in the last few weeks.

• The Club believes it is "close" to announcing its planned location for a stadium. In this context "close" means by the end of the year, although I get the sense they are hoping it will be sooner than later.
• It will then take about a year for permits and another 2-3 years for construction.
• The location in mind is "near Yankee Stadium".
• Size was variously reported as 30,000 and 25,000, expandable to 30,000.
• Two different architecture firms have been retained to draw up competing site plans.
• The club has retained a cost consulting firm and has reached out to banks on a preliminary basis to secure debt financing.
• Some of the external consultants believe that the process has been slower than necessary because the Club has to deal with bureaucratic issues out of Abu Dhabi (e.g. time needed to get sign offs and financial commitments, etc.).
• The Club has a set price in mind that it will not exceed for the stadium; separately, I heard a figure of $500 million.

Clearly, there is a lot of smoke around right now - probably more than any other time since the Club kicked off in 2015. That said, lots of things can kill a deal like this before it is ever announced. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

 

[Marito]

Mitri was at best an odd personnel decision, in that he's probably alone among the "low paid" DPs (guys making 500K or less) to command an 8.5 million transfer fee. That kind of money has usually been spent in MLS to bring established guys from established leagues that will earn 1 million or more per year in salary. So that's odd. It is doubly frustrating that CFG decided no to pay fees for big names (they were all free transfers) but then spent 4 and later 8.5 million in transfer fees for 2 underwhelming younger DPs.

 

[FootyLovin]

A list of current DPs from Wikipedia below. There are 16 teams that are using all 3 Designated Player spots. I'd say that Atlanta and Portland are both getting good value from all 3, though it did take time for both Barco and Blanco to get settled into the league. Arguments could be made for Toronto, DCU, and LAG (Alessandrini has been good, but obviously injured) and LAFC, Seattle are TBDs for their 3rd DP as their top 2 have been great.

Year signed as DP	Player	Nation	Current club	2019 guaranteed compensation[14]
2018​	Ezequiel Barco​	​	Atlanta United​	$1,425,000​
2017​	Josef Martínez​	​	Atlanta United​	$3,058,333​
2019​	Pity Martínez​	​	Atlanta United​	$900,000​
2019​	Aleksandar Katai​	​	Chicago Fire​	$1,380,333​
2017​	Nemanja Nikolić​	​	Chicago Fire​	$1,913,333​
2017​	Bastian Schweinsteiger​	​	Chicago Fire​	$5,600,000​
2016​	Tim Howard​	​	Colorado Rapids​	$2,475,000​
2019​	Luis Díaz​	​	Columbus Crew SC​	$n/a​
2017​	Pedro Santos​	​	Columbus Crew SC​	$864,560​
2019​	Gyasi Zardes​	​	Columbus Crew SC​	$1,471,667​
2017​	Paul Arriola​	​	D.C. United​	$707,000​
2019​	Lucas Rodríguez​	​	D.C. United​	$298,550​
2018​	Wayne Rooney​	​	D.C. United​	$3,507,500​
2014​	Fanendo Adi​	​	FC Cincinnati​	$1,965,008​
2019​	Allan Cruz​	​	FC Cincinnati​	$333,125​
2019​	Bryan Acosta​	​	FC Dallas​	$650,000​
2018​	Santiago Mosquera​	​	FC Dallas​	$591,400​
2017​	Alberth Elis​	​	Houston Dynamo​	$650,340​
2017​	Tomás Martínez​	​	Houston Dynamo​	$386,804​
2020​	Matías Pellegrini​	​	Inter Miami​	$n/a​
2017​	Romain Alessandrini​	​	LA Galaxy​	$1,869,996​
2017​	Jonathan dos Santos​	​	LA Galaxy​	$2,000,000​
2019​	Zlatan Ibrahimović​	​	LA Galaxy​	$7,200,000​
2019​	Brian Rodríguez​	​	Los Angeles FC​	$n/a​
2018​	Diego Rossi​	​	Los Angeles FC​	$1,052,000​
2018​	Carlos Vela​	​	Los Angeles FC​	$6,300,000​
2019​	Thomás Chacón​	​	Minnesota United​	$n/a​
2019​	Ján Greguš​	​	Minnesota United​	$883,500​
2018​	Darwin Quintero​	​	Minnesota United​	$1,750,000​
2014​	Ignacio Piatti​	​	Montreal Impact​	$4,443,333​
2018​	Saphir Taïder​	​	Montreal Impact​	$1,400,000​
2019​	Gustavo Bou​	​	New England Revolution​	$n/a​
2019​	Carles Gil​	​	New England Revolution​	$2,337,500​
2018​	Jesús Medina​	​	New York City FC​	$870,833​
2019​	Alexandru Mitriță​	​	New York City FC​	$500,000​
2017​	Maximiliano Moralez​	​	New York City FC​	$2,000,000​
2018​	Alejandro Romero Gamarra​	​	New York Red Bulls​	$800,000​
2019​	Josh Sims​	​	New York Red Bulls​	$n/a​
2016​	Bradley Wright-Phillips​	​	New York Red Bulls​	$1,380,000​
2018​	Dom Dwyer​	​	Orlando City​	$1,503,333​
2019​	Nani​	​	Orlando City​	$2,486,250​
2019​	Mauricio Pereyra​	​	Orlando City​	$n/a​
2016​	Alejandro Bedoya​	​	Philadelphia Union​	$1,266,250​
2019​	Marco Fabián​	​	Philadelphia Union​	$2,274,087​
2017​	Sebastián Blanco​	​	Portland Timbers​	$1,375,008​
2019​	Brian Fernández​	​	Portland Timbers​	$1,275,800​
2013​	Diego Valeri​	​	Portland Timbers​	$2,420,000​
2019​	Sam Johnson​	​	Real Salt Lake​	$718,750​
2017​	Albert Rusnák​	​	Real Salt Lake​	$2,001,667​
2017​	Jefferson Savarino​	​	Real Salt Lake​	$498,696​
2017​	Valeri Qazaishvili​	​	San Jose Earthquakes​	$1,604,042​
2017​	Chris Wondolowski​	​	San Jose Earthquakes​	$800,000​
2019​	Xavier Arreaga​	​	Seattle Sounders FC​	$500,850​
2016​	Nicolás Lodeiro​	​	Seattle Sounders FC​	$2,502,500​
2018​	Raúl Ruidíaz​	​	Seattle Sounders FC​	$1,800,000​
2018​	Yohan Croizet​	​	Sporting Kansas City​	$730,008​
2018​	Felipe Gutiérrez​	​	Sporting Kansas City​	$1,650,000​
2019​	Johnny Russell​	​	Sporting Kansas City​	$1,700,000​
2015​	Jozy Altidore​	​	Toronto FC​	$6,332,250​
2014​	Michael Bradley​	​	Toronto FC​	$6,428,571​
2019​	Alejandro Pozuelo​	​	Toronto FC​	$3,800,000​
2019​	Ali Adnan​	​	Vancouver Whitecaps FC​	$547,333​
2019​	Hwang In-beom​	​	Vancouver Whitecaps FC​	$655,000​
2019​	Fredy Montero​	​	Vancouver Whitecaps FC​	$968,000​

This is interesting to look at though I'd love to see the $$$ column with transfer fees included. Because what strikes me is that if you look at the over 2M signings there is a very high hit rate. Almost every one of those is a difference maker. Mitri at 500K looks like he isn't part of that group, but with his transfer fees he is a greater than 2M signing. At that level it is very difficult to justify him relative to the others at 2M+. Of course, lots of players (even several on this list) had sub-par 1st MLS seasons and then flourished. Still hoping ...

Also, I think we'd be much more open to where Mitri is and how he is doing this year if we didn't have complete dead weight in our DP3 slot.

 

[Ulrich]

Mitri was at best an odd personnel decision, in that he's probably alone among the "low paid" DPs (guys making 500K or less) to command an 8.5 million transfer fee. That kind of money has usually been spent in MLS to bring established guys from established leagues that will earn 1 million or more per year in salary. So that's odd. It is doubly frustrating that CFG decided no to pay fees for big names (they were all free transfers) but then spent 4 and later 8.5 million in transfer fees for 2 underwhelming younger DPs.

This is interesting to look at though I'd love to see the $$$ column with transfer fees included. Because what strikes me is that if you look at the over 2M signings there is a very high hit rate. Almost every one of those is a difference maker. Mitri at 500K looks like he isn't part of that group, but with his transfer fees he is a greater than 2M signing. At that level it is very difficult to justify him relative to the others at 2M+. Of course, lots of players (even several on this list) had sub-par 1st MLS seasons and then flourished. Still hoping ...

Also, I think we'd be much more open to where Mitri is and how he is doing this year if we didn't have complete dead weight in our DP3 slot.

I was going through the DP list yesterday and started writing this but never finished - FootyLovin spurred me to do so - typically, a guy making a salary in the TAM range (sub-$1m) is for all intents and purposes a TAM player but the team is classifying him as a DP for CAP reasons and to save TAM or they don’t have enough TAM. It just so happens a few of these guys also have big transfers which also complicates the TAM usage since it’s amortized over the entire contract. Makes me think that (for the most part unless using very creative contract formulation, like Pity), these players are at best just Glorified TAM-quality players that are designated at DP for CAP reasons and transfer fee reasons - but a low wage appears to be indicative of the quality (not Pity).

In Mitri’s case, he’s at best a TAM player but needed the DP for his transfer fee. His play (48th in scoring) doesn’t justify more than his salary (definitely not his transfer). He’d be an average TAM if classified as that, as expectations would be lower, but as a DP, he’s in a totally different stratosphere than the successful DPs, and his salary backs that up (great players aren’t gonna sell themselves short on the contract, just as you/I won’t do that in the job market).

 

[The Toe]

I think this is begging the question of -- which is better: Player with a $10mil transfer fee, $1mil salary, 2-year contract; or a free transfer, $6mil salary, 2-year contract?

Thinking of Villa and Lampard, I'd put them with Maxi as our best DPs to date and came from the latter category. Just food for thought, and feel free to move this if it is off topic (it is, probably).

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

i love that basically none of this thread has anything to do with the topic.

 

[Schwallacus]

i love that basically none of this thread has anything to do with the topic.

Page 1 covered the game but due to the opponent being the worst team in the league, there were bigger and better things to discuss

 

[The Toe]

i love that basically none of this thread has anything to do with the topic.

The Cincy Postmatch thread is the new Stadium Thread

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

EDIT: Link to Incident, not sure if it was discussed elsewhere

 

[LionNYC]

EDIT: Link to Incident, not sure if it was discussed elsewhere

I see contact. And with the turf in Cincinnati, why would Moralez want to go to ground and risk injury?

And this will just give the referees more leeway when we play Red Bulls for their players to choke or punch our guys in the face and not get sent off.

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

I see contact. And with the turf in Cincinnati, why would Moralez want to go to ground and risk injury?

If were being honest maxi takes a bad touch and knows hes losing the ball feels contact on his shoulder and takes a dive. Lets not be homers