Domènec Torrent Appointed NYCFC Head Coach (June '18) / Mutually Agree to Part Ways (November '19)

[EganSoccerWords]

If GVB had no relationship with CFG and was hired as our manager after what he did in Holland, all of you angry posters would have a raging erection.

I think the pedigree of the hire is not really the issue. TBH, I have loved all the managers that have been brought in (even Kreis before everyone realize he was a fraud).

The bigger organization issue is that we have been a revolving door instead of a stepping stone. I am fine with our club being a stepping stone for talent into Europe, but we also need some club stability and a manager to be able to make at least a 3 year commitment before moving on.

There is also a huge problem if CFG just jettisioned Dome (aka winningest manager in club history) so that they could groom a potential next in line Man City manager who could also potentially be only spending 1.5 years at NYC and leaving summer 2021.

I recognize some of the frustration could be from other sources but if the club had a clear stadium plan, wasnt burning bridges with it's STH, and was spending money on a LAFC or ATL level DP, this would be alot more palatable.

 

[mgarbowski]

As for an off-season vs. mid-season hire - think back to Patrick taking over in 2016.

• 7 points in our first 8 games
• 11 points in our next 7 games
• 36 points in our last 19 games (most in league over that stretch)

I think that was a special case. First, the team was learning to play from the back for the first time. Second, they did so with Josh Saunders in goal. As a result I’m pretty sure they gave up more goals on stupid turnovers near goal in that stretch than they have in any full season since. Third, they played almost all of those first 15 games without the team’s second and third best scoring options, and the 4th and 5th options were McNamara and Mendoza. IMO the absence of Lampard and Harrison had the biggest effect. Combine that with a one time learning curve for playing from the back when we gave up a crazy number of cheap goals, and I think you have a unique situation that should not replicate.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Any chance you can do a comparison to Dome across the same time/game-frame? First 8, next 7, then next 19??

With Dome, the narrative is a little trickier, because he came in at the middle of the season. At first, he won a lot and then the team hit the skids. One narrative is that he didn't start tinkering right away. Hard to know for sure.

Here is what you get if you match exactly the games vs. Patrick's.

• 16 points in his first 8 games
• 6 points in his next 7 games
• 32 points in his next 19 games (4 in 2018; 15 in 2019)

Here is another view trying to spot trends in the data.

• 15 points in his first 6 games
• 13 points in his next 13 games (through end of 2018)
• 5 points in his next 6 games (beginning of 2019)
• 59 points in his next 28 games (most in league over that stretch)

 

[Kjbert]

I think the pedigree of the hire is not really the issue. TBH, I have loved all the managers that have been brought in (even Kreis before everyone realize he was a fraud).

The bigger organization issue is that we have been a revolving door instead of a stepping stone. I am fine with our club being a stepping stone for talent into Europe, but we also need some club stability and a manager to be able to make at least a 3 year commitment before moving on.

There is also a huge problem if CFG just jettisioned Dome (aka winningest manager in club history) so that they could groom a potential next in line Man City manager who could also potentially be only spending 1.5 years at NYC and leaving summer 2021.

I recognize some of the frustration could be from other sources but if the club had a clear stadium plan, wasnt burning bridges with it's STH, and was spending money on a LAFC or ATL level DP, this would be alot more palatable.

I appreciate you admitting that the bigger issue has to do with he stadium, how STHs are treated and CFG spending. I wish others would admit that.

Where we disagree is on the revolving door. Bringing in pedigreed coaches will always mean a revolving door. The only way you don’t have a revolving door is by hiring an American. There isn’t a market for an American manager globally, unless your club is aligned with CFG or RedBull. Just the facts.

I would love us to go hire Brian Schmetzer. He’s not leaving but that’s about the only guy in MLS you could convince me is better than what we’ve had here.

 

[Gotham Gator]

It's a fair question to ask how many American coaches would it be better to have long term than a rotation of good quality CFG coaches out of Europe.

Here is my list in declining order. The question marks mean only the first two names are clearly better options to me.

Bob Bradley
Brian Schmetzer
Greg Vanney?
Peter Vermes?
Greg Berhalter?

Of course, none of these guys are currently available.

I don't know of another head coach out there who is available (and no, I don't want Petke - as entertaining as he is). If there is a young American assistant somewhere who could be a coach of the future, we should grab him. But, I don't know if there is an obvious candidate out there, and I doubt that CFG is institutionally oriented to find and develop such a person.

 

[Seth]

Bob Bradley
Brian Schmetzer
Greg Vanney?
Peter Vermes?
Greg Berhalter?

Of course, none of these guys are currently available.

I don't know of another head coach out there who is available

Jill Ellis

 

[EganSoccerWords]

I appreciate you admitting that the bigger issue has to do with he stadium, how STHs are treated and CFG spending. I wish others would admit that.

Where we disagree is on the revolving door. Bringing in pedigreed coaches will always mean a revolving door. The only way you don’t have a revolving door is by hiring an American. There isn’t a market for an American manager globally, unless your club is aligned with CFG or RedBull. Just the facts.

I would love us to go hire Brian Schmetzer. He’s not leaving but that’s about the only guy in MLS you could convince me is better than what we’ve had here.

It's shouldn't be that hard of an ask for coach to be here for three seasons. It could be more beneficial to the club to target some of sightly lesser pedigree that will actually stick around for their entire contract, but the real issue is whether these decision are being made for the good of the club or the good of CFG.

If the club choose GVB over Dome, they can burn in hell.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

It's a fair question to ask how many American coaches would it be better to have long term than a rotation of good quality CFG coaches out of Europe.

Here is my list in declining order. The question marks mean only the first two names are clearly better options to me.

Bob Bradley
Brian Schmetzer
Greg Vanney?
Peter Vermes?
Greg Berhalter?

Of course, none of these guys are currently available.

I don't know of another head coach out there who is available (and no, I don't want Petke - as entertaining as he is). If there is a young American assistant somewhere who could be a coach of the future, we should grab him. But, I don't know if there is an obvious candidate out there, and I doubt that CFG is institutionally oriented to find and develop such a person.

Jim Curtin is somewhere on that list.

 

[SoupInNYC]

I think that was a special case. First, the team was learning to play from the back for the first time. Second, they did so with Josh Saunders in goal. As a result I’m pretty sure they gave up more goals on stupid turnovers near goal in that stretch than they have in any full season since. Third, they played almost all of those first 15 games without the team’s second and third best scoring options, and the 4th and 5th options were McNamara and Mendoza. IMO the absence of Lampard and Harrison had the biggest effect. Combine that with a one time learning curve for playing from the back when we gave up a crazy number of cheap goals, and I think you have a unique situation that should not replicate.

Mendoza also joined the team fairly late in the process, I think right before our second game is when we signed him? So he realistically wasn't all that available, at least in terms of fitness and team chemistry, for a handful of games at the least.

 

[BxLio91]

But what exactly does Reyna have a lack of a clue about.

Lot of you guys looking to blame “the front office” for lots of shit when you’re really just pissed off about no stadium and the budget the Emiratis put us on.

Holy shit. I was not clear in my first post. CFG lacking a clue. Not Reyna. It was a shot at CFG.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Jim Curtin is somewhere on that list.

Yeah, I thought about him after I hit "post". I'd put him on there with a question mark as well.

 

[JayH]

I appreciate you admitting that the bigger issue has to do with he stadium, how STHs are treated and CFG spending. I wish others would admit that.

I am surprised that you cannot acknowledge that having a manager leave in the middle of a winning season prompting an epic late season derailment followed by another manager leaving after just one season and a first place finish are circumstances that may be deemed by some as less than optimal or concerning. You may disagree, or not be concerned, but that's not a stretch or unreasonable. It certainly warrants some thought as to whether we are better off with a list posed by Gotham Gator potentially for a longer term commitment than CFG short term recruits.

For me, it's not at all about the stadium, STH issues, or CFG spending - all issues I care much less about than other folks. I am legitimately interested to think about whether we are helped or hindered by the CFG management carousel. I don't know the answer. Maybe GVB for a couple of seasons will bring a Tata-like return, in a way someone inferior couldn't. Maybe Dome was a couple of Mata and Chanot fuck ups away from proving the value of quality over tenure. But in any event, it's a topic that is at least debate-worthy, especially during the dark days of the off-season.

 

[Fantazma]

It's a fair question to ask how many American coaches would it be better to have long term than a rotation of good quality CFG coaches out of Europe.

Here is my list in declining order. The question marks mean only the first two names are clearly better options to me.

Bob Bradley
Brian Schmetzer
Greg Vanney?
Peter Vermes?
Greg Berhalter?

Of course, none of these guys are currently available.

I don't know of another head coach out there who is available (and no, I don't want Petke - as entertaining as he is). If there is a young American assistant somewhere who could be a coach of the future, we should grab him. But, I don't know if there is an obvious candidate out there, and I doubt that CFG is institutionally oriented to find and develop such a person.

gonzalo pineda, not american but been part of Seattle system for like 4 years.

 

[FootyLovin]

It's shouldn't be that hard of an ask for coach to be here for three seasons.

"Stay in your job at least 3 years!"

Says the Millennial (or at least I thought you were a Millenial).

 

[Revfugee]

Not really. While Olsen can be critiqued on his wins/losses, he gave stability to a team that had horrible support but still did pretty well with it all things considered. He may not be the most technically advanced coach, and I’d put money on Rooney having introduced Olsen to more advanced EPL/Euro tactics, but he’s a players coach who bleeds DC black/red. Now that their stadium is set, bringing in more revenue, and they supposedly are gonna loosen the purse strings (waiting to see if true), then having Olsen around for so long is anything but a bad thing. There’s something nice about him having been a player on their championship teams while also being a manager of the club.

Show of hands, who on this board would be touting "stability" and "bleeding for the club" over 9+ years with this record? David Villa himself could be managing us and if he had these results over 9 MONTHS this board would be screaming for his head.

 

[Shwafta]

"Stay in your job at least 3 years!"

Says the Millennial (or at least I thought you were a Millenial).

You know, I was thinking this throughout all these coach conversations.

 

[Shwafta]

Show of hands, who on this board would be touting "stability" and "bleeding for the club" over 9+ years with this record? David Villa himself could be managing us and if he had these results over 9 MONTHS this board would be screaming for his head.
View attachment 10459

And he won them two MLS cups sooooooooo idk, tbh. I don't know if I'd prefer stability with shitty win record and two MLS cups, or regular season constant doing well but no cups.

 

[Ulrich]

Show of hands, who on this board would be touting "stability" and "bleeding for the club" over 9+ years with this record? David Villa himself could be managing us and if he had these results over 9 MONTHS this board would be screaming for his head.
View attachment 10459

It’s as if you’re responding to a statement I didn’t make by cherry picking it from the context.

 

[Revfugee]

It’s as if you’re responding to a statement I didn’t make by cherry picking it from the context.

Two can play that game.

View attachment 10460

And he won them two MLS cups sooooooooo idk, tbh. I don't know if I'd prefer stability with shitty win record and two MLS cups, or regular season constant doing well but no cups.

Unpack that one for me.

 

[Shwafta]

Two can play that game.

Unpack that one for me.

What? It's very simple. He said that ben olson over 9 years has a shitty record. So I'm saying that over x years, Vanney also has a pretty bad record, but still managed to get them two MLS cups. So what I'm saying is, would we prefer having rolling coaches that get us many many wins in the regular season, which cumulates to no hardware, or have a 'stable' coach that gives a bunch of hardware, but a shitty record?

I just switched from the Ben Olson comment because I think that would never fly here, but a Vanney might.