Man City Discussion

[Ulrich]

Then what lion said is correct. FFP is flawed from a competitive standpoint. Sure, it puts a barrier against mega oil money coming in or piling debt for players, but it ruins the integrity of the game by essentially forcing a different budget for different teams playing in the same competition, and by different, I mean the established mega clubs can spend way more than everyone else in perpetuity.

That’s actually not what Lion said.

To his point, it’s not the old vs new, it’s keeping the competition between clubs and how clubs better themselves via their operations, not clubs/their sister-conglomerates via a network of LLC’s and money laundering.

 

[LionNYC]

That’s actually not what Lion said.

To his point, it’s not the old vs new, it’s keeping the competition between clubs and how clubs better themselves via their operations, not clubs/their sister-conglomerates via a network of LLC’s and money laundering.

But I was going to get to that point of course.

 

[Davo15]

That’s actually not what Lion said.

To his point, it’s not the old vs new, it’s keeping the competition between clubs and how clubs better themselves via their operations, not clubs/their sister-conglomerates via a network of LLC’s and money laundering.

That's one way of framing it. I still think all it really does is protect Old Money interests from new.

 

[Ulrich]

That's one way of framing it. I still think all it really does is protect Old Money interests from new.

How though? It pits organization vs organization via on-field performance supported by FO, sponsorship, academy, etc., all while working within a sustainable budget tied to revenue. Sure, one league may be better off than another, like the EPL via TV cash, but that's going to be inevitable as every league is different - in some ways it's also a competition between how league develop themselves/their resources ala TV.

Why should a future New Money team be allowed to simply buy a Billion Dollar lineup with super inflated transfers just to win a title - they're not proving they're a better organization, because the money is from outside of the org, while only proving that they probably over-paid for a number of players in an effort to win the signings. Look at Liverpool and Spurs - both clubs are savvy brokers of selling players at their highs and rolling the money back in to the clubs' coffers while also developing from within. Counter that with Early-Abromivich Chelsea, PSG, and MCFC whom all bought their ways to the top with outside laundered money. The first promotes competition, the second stifles it.

 

[Keith Putnam]

I think the bigger issue is a regulatory body (UEFA) conniving to help favored organizations (Man City, PSG, etc.) break the regulatory body's own rules.

Either have FFP or don't, but don't have a corrupt FFP and then pretend to care about the rules because you were caught.

 

[413Blue]

How though? It pits organization vs organization via on-field performance supported by FO, sponsorship, academy, etc., all while working within a sustainable budget tied to revenue. Sure, one league may be better off than another, like the EPL via TV cash, but that's going to be inevitable as every league is different - in some ways it's also a competition between how league develop themselves/their resources ala TV.

Why should a future New Money team be allowed to simply buy a Billion Dollar lineup with super inflated transfers just to win a title - they're not proving they're a better organization, because the money is from outside of the org, while only proving that they probably over-paid for a number of players in an effort to win the signings. Look at Liverpool and Spurs - both clubs are savvy brokers of selling players at their highs and rolling the money back in to the clubs' coffers while also developing from within. Counter that with Early-Abromivich Chelsea, PSG, and MCFC whom all bought their ways to the top with outside laundered money. The first promotes competition, the second stifles it.

You could also say they invested their way to the top, built an organization over time.
They could have bought Man U for 10x they paid for City. Why cant a wealthy group buy a low value club, invest in it with cash, not debt, and over time build a complete organization?
The biggest problem with FFP is one club, based on generations of brand build up, can spend significantly more on their roster than other clubs in the same damn league. Properly bankrolled owners should be authorized to invest fresh cash to build their clubs infrastructure quickly, compete quickly, and build a brand. Otherwise clubs outside of the top tier have no reason to exist because they are relegated to their tier in perpetuity.

I don't like CFG either, but to hail FFP as some righteous cause is foolhardy, because it simply ruins the integrity of the game in different ways.

I'm all for some type of evaluation system which requires clubs to maintain a financially viable operation, but FFP with what is effectively 20 different salary caps for the Prem is terrible.

 

[mgarbowski]

You could also say they invested their way to the top, built an organization over time.
They could have bought Man U for 10x they paid for City. Why cant a wealthy group buy a low value club, invest in it with cash, not debt, and over time build a complete organization?
The biggest problem with FFP is one club, based on generations of brand build up, can spend significantly more on their roster than other clubs in the same damn league. Properly bankrolled owners should be authorized to invest fresh cash to build their clubs infrastructure quickly, compete quickly, and build a brand. Otherwise clubs outside of the top tier have no reason to exist because they are relegated to their tier in perpetuity.

I don't like CFG either, but to hail FFP as some righteous cause is foolhardy, because it simply ruins the integrity of the game in different ways.

I'm all for some type of evaluation system which requires clubs to maintain a financially viable operation, but FFP with what is effectively 20 different salary caps for the Prem is terrible.

It's even more ridiculous, because the current system doesn't even necessarily reward the best run teams of all time. Were you a massive club with lots of titles and a huge fanbase any time before 1990 or so? That counts for nothing. Being well run either before or after that time counts for far less than winning when the opportunity for worldwide branding appeared. They basically are creating rules to rigidly benefit teams who happened to have success when player freedom and global marketing all first came together during an otherwise random time in history, while claiming some sort of moral superiority for their anticompetitive BS, which is pretty much what all rent-seekers do.

 

[Seth]

Really good Vincent Kompany article in the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/18/vincent-kompany-manchester-city-setbacks-racism

 

[Davo15]

So crazily I believe that's the first English domestic treble and Sterling first hatrick in a final since 53.

 

[Keith Putnam]

English domestic treble

For anyone who pretends to care about the Community Shield, the FA cup is City's fourth trophy in England this year.

 

[Seth]

Vincent Kompany leaving City: "I choose to be grateful for the past but remain ambitious and driven for the future.
For the next 3 years, I will take up the role of Player-Manager of RSC Anderlecht.
Belgium’s finest."

From a two part open letter on his Facebook page.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1130021449232781318

 

[Seth]

City up 1-0 over Liverpool halfway through the first half of the Community Shield. Welcome to 2019/2020!

But I do miss Vincent Kompany a bit.

 

[Ulrich]

City up 1-0 over Liverpool halfway through the first half of the Community Shield. Welcome to 2019/2020!

But I do miss Vincent Kompany a bit.

Wasn’t expecting a spoiler in a non-game thread.....

 

[413Blue]

Wasn’t expecting a spoiler in a non-game thread.....

You didn't expect a discussion of a man city game in the man city thread?

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Wasn’t expecting a spoiler in a non-game thread.....

To be fair this thread always turns into a discussion thread during games.

Not impressed with Rodri. He’ll take some time to grow into the league and the pace.
Great first half, horrid second half. 70-30 possession in the first and it must have been opposite in the second.
It’s a good test of absorbing pressure and chasing the game. Although it was more of Liverpool not finishing than us absorbing.

 

[Ulrich]

You didn't expect a discussion of a man city game in the man city thread?

What's up with you lately? I've noticed a sharp increase of abrasiveness over the last few weeks.

No, I didn’t expect it in a general discussion section, that’s why there are game threads. If discussion of games are fair in any thread the club is affiliated with, then let’s just do away with game threads in general so there’s no confusion.

To your other point, if I’ve been abrasive, it’s been towards the team and their actions. Their constant gaffes bring it upon themselves. As long as I’m a STH, it’s my right to be critical of the product.

Making a comment to Seth about a game score isn’t abrasive, but if he took it that way then I’ll apologize to him or anybody else that’s taken it that way. Posting online spins ideas sometimes in ways they aren’t intended, like when I took issue with ChrisJee yesterday and it turned out his statement wasn’t meant the way I interpreted it.

Separately, I do take offense at certain drive-by posters that have absolutely no stake in a particular conversation but feel the need to belittle those that do in a holier-than-thou way masquerading as a passive-aggressive voice of reason. (And this is not directed at you for your comment above).

 

[Seth]

No, I didn’t expect it in a general discussion section, that’s why there are game threads. If discussion of games are fair in any thread the club is affiliated with, then let’s just do away with game threads in general so there’s no confusion.

To your other point, if I’ve been abrasive, it’s been towards the team and their actions. Their constant gaffes bring it upon themselves. As long as I’m a STH, it’s my right to be critical of the product.

Making a comment to Seth about a game score isn’t abrasive, but if he took it that way then I’ll apologize to him or anybody else that’s taken it that way. Posting online spins ideas sometimes in ways they aren’t intended, like when I took issue with ChrisJee yesterday and it turned out his statement wasn’t meant the way I interpreted it.

Separately, I do take offense at certain drive-by posters that have absolutely no stake in a particular conversation but feel the need to belittle those that do in a holier-than-thou way masquerading as a passive-aggressive voice of reason. (And this is not directed at you for your comment above).

For the record I took no offense at all. Gotta work a lot harder if you want to offend me, ya know?

I do want to mention that this is the Man City thread though, not an NYCFC thread, and that there aren't game-specific threads for Man City. Well, at least not here on this board. Would definitely not talk about mid-game scores in a general NYCFC thread and would instead save them for the game threads though.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Spoilers

https://twitter.com/x/status/1160181121033867265

Well he definitely improved upon the Liverpool game. Still had a few careless mistakes but I was happy with how he played today.
It was definitely the first game of the season. First half was very sloppy.

 

[Davo15]

Sort of feel like that was a "Liverpool hold our beer" statement. Playing against a better team and away score one more concede one less... Also Sterling might be a legit threat for the Golden boot.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Sort of feel like that was a "Liverpool hold our beer" statement. Playing against a better team and away score one more concede one less... Also Sterling might be a legit threat for the Golden boot.

He started very poorly today. Couple of giveaways that led to attacks for WH and that one sequence where he gave the ball away, got it back then tripped over it. I’m glad he put the first 10 minutes behind him.
Same with Rodri. Had a few poor moments to start the game and two quick fouls then watched him go in on a challenge minutes later which could of been his yellow but he won it. Love the confidence.