MLS - May 15 - Toronto (Home)

[VernonJohn]

Oh, you're making a rule just for this incident.

I making a comment on how stupid this incident was in that there wasn’t anything that happened other than the ball going into the goal after it went off Medinas head and because there was a sound of a whistle in between the play can’t be reviewed. I’m not making a rule for just “this incident”, I’m saying an incident like this (stupid human error) can be easily corrected.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I haven't seen any statement by PRO or Howard Webb. But it's ridiculous that every year a game deciding incident by the referees screws us over.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1394709135904681985

We are certainly not the only team this sort of thing happens to.

 

[SoupInNYC]

So I wasn't able to watch the game live last weekend. Started going through my watch last night and two things stuck out to me:

1. Once again, Tajouri-Shradi really only has one place to play, at RW. He played as the 10 and his one-footedness really slowed down several opportunities to play quick passing and release players up the field. Here's his average position from WhoScored (17):
   1. 
2. Andres Jasson was a liability defensively. Post-game, I got the impression that Ronny kind of downplayed his defensive responsibilities, but when we are in our defensive back 3 (or 5), the ball-side wingback steps up to pressure the ball and the other 4 kind of shift to typical back 4 positioning. In this setup when TFC had it on the right, Soteldo would sit on Jasson's outside shoulder, a switch would come and Soteldo didn't find it hard to beat Jasson. Now part of that is Soteldo is good, and he would beat lots of guys, but there were also many instances where Jasson was just very slow at getting back into the defensive shape. I'm not certain it was due to an actual lack of effort, but moreso of a lack of positional familiarity and remembering where he needed to be in this position he's never played before. I don't understand why Tayvon didn't play there.

 

[moogoo]

So I wasn't able to watch the game live last weekend. Started going through my watch last night and two things stuck out to me:

1. Once again, Tajouri-Shradi really only has one place to play, at RW. He played as the 10 and his one-footedness really slowed down several opportunities to play quick passing and release players up the field. Here's his average position from WhoScored (17):
   1. View attachment 11216
2. Andres Jasson was a liability defensively. Post-game, I got the impression that Ronny kind of downplayed his defensive responsibilities, but when we are in our defensive back 3 (or 5), the ball-side wingback steps up to pressure the ball and the other 4 kind of shift to typical back 4 positioning. In this setup when TFC had it on the right, Soteldo would sit on Jasson's outside shoulder, a switch would come and Soteldo didn't find it hard to beat Jasson. Now part of that is Soteldo is good, and he would beat lots of guys, but there were also many instances where Jasson was just very slow at getting back into the defensive shape. I'm not certain it was due to an actual lack of effort, but moreso of a lack of positional familiarity and remembering where he needed to be in this position he's never played before. I don't understand why Tayvon didn't play there.

Yea not playing gray really confused me too. Ronny said he wanted attacking ability at rb, so be went with Jasson. But Jasson didn't exactly give us that much attacking threat. The few times gray had played in preseason, he showed an ability to get into the attack. Perhaps for whatever reason, Ronny didn't think gray is good enough to be a starter yet.. his reason for picking Jasson doesn't really add up to me.

 

[canchon]

I haven't seen any statement by PRO or Howard Webb. But

As long as you're cool with players never stopping play when whistles blow.

So if the ref blew the whistle because Medina went down, he was very whistle happy - especially because he should have some idea about what play is going on (as in this instance the ball is heading directly into the net).

players go down all the time and the play heads in the opposite direction for a while. The ref should have had some idea what was happening with the ball before he blew the whistle - especially as the guidance they have been given is to let scoring plays go so that they can be reviewed by VAR.

The ref screwed up plain and simple. I wish there was a mechanism to review this in game...oh wait...

 

[SoupInNYC]

So if the ref blew the whistle because Medina went down, he was very whistle happy - especially because he should have some idea about what play is going on (as in this instance the ball is heading directly into the net).

players go down all the time and the play heads in the opposite direction for a while. The ref should have had some idea what was happening with the ball before he blew the whistle - especially as the guidance they have been given is to let scoring plays go so that they can be reviewed by VAR.

The ref screwed up plain and simple. I wish there was a mechanism to review this in game...oh wait...

It definitely was a huge mistake. But ultimately I’m not finding myself as upset about this one since we didn’t really deserve a goal. Though I will also follow that up that Bono deserved a goal to be scored against him there.

 

[mgarbowski]

It definitely was a huge mistake. But ultimately I’m not finding myself as upset about this one since we didn’t really deserve a goal. Though I will also follow that up that Bono deserved a goal to be scored against him there.

Not gonna happen, but I'd rather like to see Bono get fined for dangerous play.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Not gonna happen, but I'd rather like to see Bono get fined for dangerous play.

Edit: nm, I misread your post.

 

[Gotham Gator]

It definitely was a huge mistake. But ultimately I’m not finding myself as upset about this one since we didn’t really deserve a goal. Though I will also follow that up that Bono deserved a goal to be scored against him there.

I pretty much agree. Here's how I put it to a friend - "if after that game, we are angry that we didn't get a second free gift from the other team, then we are angry about the wrong thing."

 

[moogoo]

I pretty much agree. Here's how I put it to a friend - "if after that game, we are angry that we didn't get a second free gift from the other team, then we are angry about the wrong thing."

i think the anger had been building long before that call. gantar and his crew were terrible from kickoff and continued to be terrible to the final whistle. dwyer's foul before the TFC goal should have been at least been flagged by VAR for gantar to review. the disallowed goal, by itself, while angering, is just one of countless bad calls that game.

 

[Gotham Gator]

i think the anger had been building long before that call. gantar and his crew were terrible from kickoff and continued to be terrible to the final whistle. dwyer's foul before the TFC goal should have been at least been flagged by VAR for gantar to review. the disallowed goal, by itself, while angering, is just one of countless bad calls that game.

I don't disagree with this. The first yellow card he handed out didn't even look like a foul.

 

[SoupInNYC]

1. Andres Jasson was a liability defensively. Post-game, I got the impression that Ronny kind of downplayed his defensive responsibilities, but when we are in our defensive back 3 (or 5), the ball-side wingback steps up to pressure the ball and the other 4 kind of shift to typical back 4 positioning. In this setup when TFC had it on the right, Soteldo would sit on Jasson's outside shoulder, a switch would come and Soteldo didn't find it hard to beat Jasson. Now part of that is Soteldo is good, and he would beat lots of guys, but there were also many instances where Jasson was just very slow at getting back into the defensive shape. I'm not certain it was due to an actual lack of effort, but moreso of a lack of positional familiarity and remembering where he needed to be in this position he's never played before. I don't understand why Tayvon didn't play there.

I broke this down here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1395392680830672900

 

[sabertooth36]

So PRO came out and said that the goal should have been awarded. Once again, incompetent on-field refereeing cost us points.

http://proreferees.com/2021/05/22/talking-points-goalkeeper-distribution/

 

[VernonJohn]

So PRO came out and said that the goal should have been awarded. Once again, incompetent on-field refereeing cost us points.

http://proreferees.com/2021/05/22/talking-points-goalkeeper-distribution/

Thanks for sharing. I’m going to reiterate that at this point in the evolution of the game there is NO reason other than sheer madness that that goal be disallowed. At the point in which the ball is in the net there should be a review by someone knowledgeable enough from PRO to interpret the rule correctly. No one touched the ball between the time it went off Medina’s head and ended up in the back of the net. This idea that the whistle is the voice of God and bends time and space to suspend the reality of all soccer inside the confines of the stadium until it is sounded again is ludicrous. Especially as it relates to this situation.

 

[mgarbowski]

Thanks for sharing. I’m going to reiterate that at this point in the evolution of the game there is NO reason other than sheer madness that that goal be disallowed. At the point in which the ball is in the net there should be a review by someone knowledgeable enough from PRO to interpret the rule correctly. No one touched the ball between the time it went off Medina’s head and ended up in the back of the net. This idea that the whistle is the voice of God and bends time and space to suspend the reality of all soccer inside the confines of the stadium until it is sounded again is ludicrous. Especially as it relates to this situation.

And when Laryea says I stopped play when the whistle blew you say ???

 

[mgarbowski]

So PRO came out and said that the goal should have been awarded. Once again, incompetent on-field refereeing cost us points.

http://proreferees.com/2021/05/22/talking-points-goalkeeper-distribution/

How many times has that happened compared to how many times it gave us points?

 

[moogoo]

And when Laryea says I stopped play when the whistle blew you say ???

i think what Vernon is trying to say is that it seems silly that we have VAR and its limited scenarios that allow review, there is actual guidance to refs to hold whistle/flag to ensure these reviews can happen, yet in this case, VAR was unable to review one of those scenarios (i.e., a goal) because the whistle blew too early.

Yes, this is a failure on the ref for blowing it too early. But, since it is a VAR reviewable scenario, it should have been permitted to review despite the whistle blowing before the ball went in the net. In this case, no one touched the ball. But if someone had touched it, VAR could review and decide no goal for that reason. This way the responsibility is on the players to play to the whistle and stop playing when the whistle blows.

 

[VernonJohn]

And when Laryea says I stopped play when the whistle blew you say ???

Did you watch the play and see when the whistle blew and when the ball went in and where the players were?