Scottish Football

Maybe it's different for UEFA but I'm pretty sure each country in Europe needs a domestic league even if it's not fully professional, didn't the US get the World Cup in 1994 on the understanding that a domestic soccer league was going to be created? I don't think we'll ever see a full merger of the leagues in the UK but the door is definitely open for Rangers and Celtic to join one day.

I'm not convinced. No English league wants them, even if they would bring bumper crowds. And then on top of that there's the troubling sectarian nature of the two fanbases, meaning that we'd have to listen to all of the IRA songs and the pro/anti-union bigotry plus all the hooliganism their fans are known for. It would tarnish the reputation of English football if they were allowed in.
 
I'm not convinced. No English league wants them, even if they would bring bumper crowds. And then on top of that there's the troubling sectarian nature of the two fanbases, meaning that we'd have to listen to all of the IRA songs and the pro/anti-union bigotry plus all the hooliganism their fans are known for. It would tarnish the reputation of English football if they were allowed in.
You think that chants and cheers by teams would tarnish the reputation for an entire country's football? I'm not so convinced of this fact. Plus, many english teams already have some "interesting chants" to say the least.
 
You think that chants and cheers by teams would tarnish the reputation for an entire country's football? I'm not so convinced of this fact. Plus, many english teams already have some "interesting chants" to say the least.

You do know that Celtic sing songs praising the IRA, right? A bona fide terrorist organisation responsible for the deaths of thousands of British civilians? You don't think it would tarnish US football if an expansion team was added and their supporters started singing songs glorifying 9/11? On the other side of the divide, Rangers are a club who have had chants sent to the British law courts and ruled racist, and a decade ago UEFA instituted a rule saying that before every game Rangers played, they had to broadcast an announcement to their fans ordering them not to sing certain songs because they were so openly defamatory towards Catholics. Both teams are scum and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near English football.
 
You do know that Celtic sing songs praising the IRA, right? A bona fide terrorist organisation responsible for the deaths of thousands of British civilians? You don't think it would tarnish US football if an expansion team was added and their supporters started singing songs glorifying 9/11? On the other side of the divide, Rangers are a club who have had chants sent to the British law courts and ruled racist, and a decade ago UEFA instituted a rule saying that before every game Rangers played, they had to broadcast an announcement to their fans ordering them not to sing certain songs because they were so openly defamatory towards Catholics. Both teams are scum and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near English football.
I don't see your parallel between the IRA and 9/11. I doubt you want to here about my political views on either of these events.

Regardless, point taken.
 
It's a pretty obvious parallel as Celtic fans have sang songs praising an organisation that's killed British citizens including civilians while in Britain so not very different from if a group of fans sang pro Al Qaeda songs in the US. Not defending the Anti Catholic or Anti Irish bigotry that comes from some elements of The Rangers support though in my experience far more Rangers supporters are willing to have a frank discussion about the ills on both sides of the divide where more Celtic supporters have trouble acknowledging there's anything wrong with the terrorist fetishism that's just as undeniably practiced by part of their fan base.

That being said I was hesitant to start this thread to begin with for just this reason. I really just wanted to discuss the current season/results etc. Like in any other league thread (EPL, LA Liga, Bundesliga etc. ) not have this political/religious/philosophical debate.
 
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It's a pretty obvious parallel as Celtic fans have sang songs praising an organisation that's killed British citizens including civilians while in Britain so not very different from if a group of fans sang pro Al Qaeda songs in the US. Not defending the Anti Catholic or Anti Irish bigotry that comes from some elements of The Rangers support though in my experience far more Rangers supporters are willing to have a frank discussion about the ills on both sides of the divide where more Celtic supporters have trouble acknowledging there's anything wrong with the terrorist fetishism that's just as undeniably practiced by part of their fan base.

That being said I was hesitant to start this thread to begin with for just this reason. I really just wanted to discuss the current season/results etc. Like in any other league thread (EPL, LA Liga, Bundesliga etc. ) not have this political/religious/philosophical debate.
i can't really figure out why the Scottish league is filled with such political, religious, and philosophical hatred. It's a shame that this is what we talk about when we discuss Scottish football.
 
i can't really figure out why the Scottish league is filled with such political, religious, and philosophical hatred. It's a shame that this is what we talk about when we discuss Scottish football.

A lot of Scotland's teams have Irish roots from the various Irish immigrant communities in the towns and cities across the country. England has a lot of Irish communities too, but for some reason they never really got involved in creating football teams in the same as the Irish Scots did.

That being said I was hesitant to start this thread to begin with for just this reason. I really just wanted to discuss the current season/results etc. Like in any other league thread (EPL, LA Liga, Bundesliga etc. ) not have this political/religious/philosophical debate.

Yeah, fair enough, I should've held myself back with the tone of my posts anyway but I let my inner feelings show a little too much.
 
I am not getting involved in the political sectarian side of the debate but i do know why there are four separate nations playing in international competitions and they certainly would not join as one for the Olympics. It basically boils down to history.
FIFA did not exist until 1904 and the "home countries" (England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland) had been going some 20 or 30 years and were basically not interested. The FA ( not English FA just the FA, often thought of arrogance to name the FA with no country title but to be fair to them, there were no other FAs about and football was not the world wide game it is today) and the other home countries just did not think it was worth their while. Indeed it was not until 1929 in Spain that England lost to a non home country.
Now, this is where it gets tricky. Many argue that the defeat to the Republic of Ireland at Wembley was the first foreign defeat, not the loss to Hungary because between 1922 and 1949 Ireland split and the south became the Republic of Ireland and a free independent state. (Yes simplified and no i am not doing politics.)
So, Britain was the name made popular by the Romans when they came to the British islands. The term Great Britain was first used during the reign of King James I of England (James VI of Scotland) in 1603, to refer to the separate kingdoms of England (Wales became a separate country in its own right, and then became a principality of England, which it still is today) and Scotland on the same landmass, that were ruled over by the same monarch. Despite having the same monarch, both kingdoms kept their own parliaments. England used to be the land of the Angles, people from continental Germany, who began to invade Britain in the late 5th century, along with the Saxons and Jute. United Kingdom (The uniting of kingdoms) The 'United Kingdom of Great Britain' was formed in 1707 by the Act of Union that created a single kingdom with a single Parliament. (Scotland has always retained its own legal system). A hundred years later the Act of Union of 1801 joined Ireland to 'Great Britain' and the name "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" was first used. (Since 1921 only Northern Ireland has been part of the United Kingdom and so the name changed). Ok, so far so good the above bit was important for the reason why we compete as one in the Olympics.

So when FIFA came knocking the 4 FAs were not interested. They did join a year later but pulled out after WWI and did not return until after WWII in 1947. Then it was on the proviso that they remained 4 separate FAs and having their own leagues fulfilled the criteria. Remember not every member of FIFA is a country. You DO NOT have to be a country to be in FIFA.
In 1954 the terms remained the same. No merger or no entry. UEFA were fine with it.
Since then it has remained as is, due to the historical aspect but more recently there have been political footballing reasons. As FIFA is one member one vote, there are four votes there for UEFA, they are happy with that. The Africans, Asians and other federations are not too happy as it gives UEFA three votes they feel they are not entitled to. They then point to the Olympics and say "You compete as one country there why not here" The stock reply is that the country is represented as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (remember the name change) and in line with the Olympics as a country. Basically two separate arguments. As a back up there is no men's or women's football teams in the Olympics.
The reality is Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland really do not trust FIFA despite assurances they would not be forced to merge into the much larger English league. The FA say nothing because they feel there is little point but tacitly support Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland because a merger would be the death knell of those old and proud leagues.

I hope this has covered most points.
 
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Watched a Chunk of Hearts vs Saint Johnstone this morning just cause. Ended 4-3 to Hearts felt like I was watching us at home :D
 
My dad lived in Scotland for awhile which is how he originally fell in love with the sport. He got to experience SPL back when Kenny Dalglish was still king. Too bad it's in such awful shape today.

UP THE WELL!
 
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Warburton era in the league starts with 3-1 Rangers win over St. Mirren. Room for improvement with finishing but they dominated possession and had a ton of shots against what's likely to be (along with Hibs) one of their biggest challengers for this years title and automatic promotion.
 
Warburton era in the league starts with 3-1 Rangers win over St. Mirren. Room for improvement with finishing but they dominated possession and had a ton of shots against what's likely to be (along with Hibs) one of their biggest challengers for this years title and automatic promotion.

Hopefully we will steamroll the league this season. The fans deserve it at least.
 
i can't really figure out why the Scottish league is filled with such political, religious, and philosophical hatred. It's a shame that this is what we talk about when we discuss Scottish football.

I'll give a bit of a history lesson, as a Rangers supporter, i'll try and be as impartial as possible.

In 1872, Rangers were founded by four men. These guys just wanted to play football with a team competitively. Back then, Scotland was arguably THE place to play football. The national side were pretty dominant and the still existing and currently amateur side Queen's Park FC were one of the best at the time. They were also a big club from the city of Glasgow. Scotland is a majority Protestant country, which is what made up the majority of the Rangers support. Many of these people had Unionist, working class leanings and many were Northern Irish immigrants with the same culture. For the first few years, Queens Park and Rangers formed the Glasgow derby and often fought it out for dominance, then, in 1888, Celtic FC were founded by an Irish Catholic priest in Glasgow who felt their wasn't enough help for the Irish Catholic minority at the time. Rangers and Celtic then became the premier clubs in Scotland and perhaps even world football at the time, attracting crowds well into the hundreds of thousands for Old firm games. Over time this divide was clear to see. British Protestant v Irish Catholic. We get to the 1970's, and the troubles in Northern Ireland begin to explode. This resulted in even further division (with Rangers fans taking the side of the UVF/British Army and Celtic taking the side of the IRA), and where most of today's songs and actions which would be regarded as sectarian have arisen from. Naturally Rangers and Celtic have a long founded hatred for one another due to being constantly fighting over Scottish dominance and sometimes even European dominance. Recently though, you will find that many of the people in West Central Scotland who follow the clubs are indistinguishable, with sectarianism and divisions tending to wait until the weekend when the bile tends to spill over on matchdays, with sometimes violent displays happening. '90 minute bigot' is the term used. The rivalry is as fierce as ever, but the reality of division is nothing like the media would make out. It's far more watered down than what i imagine outsiders would see. Of course, their has only been one Old Firm game since 2012 when Rangers went into administration and were demoted to the Fourth tier of Scottish football, and we have been fighting our way back since (We're now in the second tier and look set to be promoted this season judging by early signs), which in itself is a story for another day, such as the nature and drama of it all.

Side note: Till this day you will find a huge culture of flute bands in Scotland called the Orange Order which celebrate the victory won by King Billy at the Battle of the Boyne 300 years ago over the Irish as well as the Northern Irish troubles. The counterpart is IRA parades with Irish roots celebrating the work of the IRA.

However, i will till the end of my days maintain it is the greatest footballing rivalry in the entire world. Rangers have 54 top league titles, 33 scottish cups, 27 league cups and various other cups and competitions including the European Cup Winners Cup. Celtic have won 46 top league titles, 36 scottish cups, and 15 league cups.

Best Home fans in the world
and best away fans

One day i hope to see NYCFC have the same fierce rivalry with the Red Bulls.
 
Dramatic Dundee derby tonight. Sold out crowd. Finished 2-2.

Dundee were the better of the sides but the strikers were not clinical enough and were punished when Blair Spittal of Dundee United scored two goals in two minutes, on the 65th and 67th. Dundee stared heaping on the pressure to United, and eventually pulled one back through Greg Stewart in the 81st minute. The game became dramatic at the end, Scott Bain making a world class save to prevent United putting the game to bed, just for Dundee to run up the pitch and score via James McPake with the last kick of the ball for an equaliser. Fantastic viewing.

In other news, over 40,000 tickets have been sold already at Ibrox for the Rangers v Hibernian game on the 23rd (Me and my mates are going). Fantastic from the Rangers fans. Only 12,000 left to sell in 12 days. No problem. Rangers could be six points ahead of Hibs if they win that game only three games into the league season.
 
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That's not a good comparison at all. The USA and Mexico are 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND FULLY INDEPENDENT COUNTRIES. Why would you even consider merging their league systems?

Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are commonwealths of the United Kingdom. They mostly share a common culture, language, and racial identity. And all of their domestic leagues are struggling to bring in the money required to properly run a football team today. Why wouldn't they join a much more lucrative and successful football league system? It couldn't hurt any of the teams involved.

I don't pretend to know all of the politics involving the commonwealth nations and their apparent hatred of England. Is that why many are opposed to this sort of idea?

It isn't as simple as you say. Yes. The UK is one nation state. They do not share a common language. Wales spoke Welsh, Scotland spoke Scots Gaelic, Ireland spoke Irish Gaelic. There are places and people in Wales who will not speak English when an Englishman is around.

The original inhabitants of these nations were "white." Yet, genetically you can tell the difference between these peoplee (ones from there from forever ago not people who immigrated to these countries.)

Scotland and Wales have some amoubt of home rule. There are a good amount of people in those places that want to separate from England completely. And I am sure you are aware of what has transpired in Northern Ireland.

To some degree I would think maintaining their own F.A.'s is maintaining some amount of national identity.
 
So Hearts are top of the league for the moment with that other lot dropping points for the first time yesterday. Now we know there's no way the put in a legit title challenge but I think if they can straight away finish 2 or 3 it's an encouraging sign that with a little investment next season Rangers can challenge at the right end of the table straight away.
 
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Set to be another underwhelming season probably for TWFDUFC after Celtic snapped up our best player AGAIN. Kind of galling that they are signing Scott Allan too (another ex-United boy) presumably just to stick it to The Rangers.