Toronto (Home) - Postmatch

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The Toe

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I give Sweat a pass in this one. He's simply not a CB and was forced into it. Not giving up a goal in the run of play... feels like we'd take that with the available defenders.
 
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canchon

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Toronto played their 3 DP’s for 90 minutes (thanks Berhalter) - with a rested Jozy as well - against NYCFC’s fourth CB and a converted LB playing CB and scored zero goals from the run of play. TFC needed a patented soft “Jozy special” penalty and a deflected ball hitting the arm for another penalty for their main chances. (They also had one or two other big ones but hey NYCFC hit the post as well).

Take the point and come back to get 3 against SJ and keep the train rolling.

Oh, and fuck Penso. That is all.

 

moogoo

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Ben Sweat isn’t good enough for this team. Reffing was bad but Ben Sweat was FUCKING TERRIBLE tonight. Fucking terrible. Drop his piece of shit ass and play Miller. I’ll drice him back to fucking Tampa. He’s fucking terrible. Enough of this shit with him seeing the field.
i'm not so sure miller would be that much better. they seem like very similar players to me. but at least sweat is better at going forward and more comfortable in our style of play.


just watched Dome's post match presser...

he's not happy with the refs and MLS playing through fifa break and the congested game schedule on top of that. i feel bad for him. he's come from the best leagues in the world and MLS is just so behind when it comes to scheduling and especially refereeing. I hope he doesn't leave us next season cause he's so unhappy with the league.
 
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ManhattanValley

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No-one's even mentioned the ref's most egregious play, when he managed to put in a potentially goal-saving tackle on Alex Ring who was bursting through midfield. I could make a long list of NYCFC central midfielders who never made a tackle that good!

Pretty happy with a point against a surging Toronto when we were without our three best CBs, our best striker and our best DP. We've come a long way from the last time we played Toronto.
 

Midas Mulligan

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It wasn’t stamina until the end - before that and for most of the match, he was completely out of position right to the middle near Sweat, or much farther up the field.
You didnt notice all the help Sweat needs? Damn glad someone with at least a little bit of ability decided to try to stop them coming right now Sweat’s stupid, no talent gullet.

Just a complete gap of a player.
 

moogoo

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No-one's even mentioned the ref's most egregious play, when he managed to put in a potentially goal-saving tackle on Alex Ring who was bursting through midfield. I could make a long list of NYCFC central midfielders who never made a tackle that good!

Pretty happy with a point against a surging Toronto when we were without our three best CBs, our best striker and our best DP. We've come a long way from the last time we played Toronto.
Agree. Definitely shows how much depth we have and how well Dome has gotten ALL the players to buy into the system. To be able to slot in backup players in positions and for the most part, look like a decent squad is very impressive. Especially with Dome changing formation a couple times.

Hopefully we can have everyone back on saturday, but I fear either chanot or callens, maybe both? will sit out due to fatigue from playing and travel. Not sure how much Callens played but Chanot had a full 90 and isn't even back in the country yet.
 
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ZYanksRule

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Honestly surprised at how well we played defensively. Part of that is because Toronto was completely incompetent in the box -- seriously, they could have had 4 or 5 goals tonight -- but I thought we did a nice job keeping them from being really dangerous until we ran out of gas with 30 minutes left.

Mitrita's free kick was incredible. He's really coming into his own now, might get double digits in goals.

With that defense, against that offense, a tie is a really impressive result. Could have been a lot worse, because Toronto is really dangerous. They're going to be a tough out in the playoffs. Better than their record.

Castellanos is a real flopper -- I wish he didn't go to ground so often. Cynical and frustrating as a fan. The play in injury time, he did grab hold of the defender and it was a foul. So I don't think that was a bad call by Penso. The ref was atrocious tonight, but he got that play right. I also didn't really love the Sweat handball. Seemed like ball to hand to me. Ball don't lie -- great save by Johnson.

We now have the same amount of games as Philly and are three points up. Atlanta has a game in hand, but it's a 6-point gap. Basically no matter how you look at it, NYCFC is the clear frontrunner now for the 1-seed. A win on Saturday puts us in really, really good position.
 

Shwafta

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What. The. Fuck. Was. That. Refereeing.

I hate how MLS turns a blind eye to it and fines everyone for talking about it. Your refs are shit. They make games not fun. This game was not fun, mostly because of the referee. And it wasn't only the shitty calls, it was also all the random stopages he kept doing throughout play that just slowed the pace down for no reason.
Penso? Petrescu? Kelly? Who is worse, I have no clue.

...Also, Mitrita was invisible after his goal.
...Medina I thought had a good game, though he didn't do much. But he was still on the ball, making tackles, he really was one of the better offensive players tonight.
 
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LionNYC

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Ben Sweat isn’t good enough for this team. Reffing was bad but Ben Sweat was FUCKING TERRIBLE tonight. Fucking terrible. Drop his piece of shit ass and play Miller. I’ll drice him back to fucking Tampa. He’s fucking terrible. Enough of this shit with him seeing the field.
Ben Sweat made a pass inside and Dome was yelling at him senseless. He made the same pass 2 minutes later. Dome was yelling at him again.
 

moogoo

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Ben Sweat made a pass inside and Dome was yelling at him senseless. He made the same pass 2 minutes later. Dome was yelling at him again.
not sure which plays these were, i'll have to watch the game again... but both he and mata would do blind clearances into the middle of the field to nobody. and it was always a TFC player who picked it up ready to quickly counter us. don't know who taught these guys how to be defenders, but blind passes to the middle of your third is the best way to get punished. how these guys made it to the professional level with their level of defensive know how is beyond me.
 

SoupInNYC

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No-one's even mentioned the ref's most egregious play, when he managed to put in a potentially goal-saving tackle on Alex Ring who was bursting through midfield. I could make a long list of NYCFC central midfielders who never made a tackle that good!

Pretty happy with a point against a surging Toronto when we were without our three best CBs, our best striker and our best DP. We've come a long way from the last time we played Toronto.
Rivals Adam Nemec's tackling skills
 

SoupInNYC

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I had a flight last night, so was only able to watch until about the 50', and then turned back on to see Taty's bloody nose. Considering all the players we were missing, especially our CB pairing, I'm happy with a point.

On the first PK call, definitely agree with the decision by the ref, I just don't know what Ibeagha was doing. Jozy was leaning back into him hard, there was no reason for Ibby to grab him like he did. I really feel that if Ibby had kept his hands to himself, we would have won the ball away with no foul in the box.

Regarding the refereeing, I don't feel like I can comment too hard on it considering how much of the match I missed, but:
  • The hands to the head or neck area just doesn't seem to get red cards this year. What Rooney did to deserve his was pretty egregious, but I've seen probably at least 3-4 instances against NYCFC where there were legit shouts for red, and in other games too. Not to mention Zlatan fucking breaking someone's face and nothing coming from it. I'm sure Alex Callens is frustrated.
  • I'm also curious to the lack of calls around playing back to the keeper with the feet and the keeper handling it. I saw it again last night, and I've seen it in one of our games earlier this season and these weren't deflections, they were clear plays back. Maybe refs are just too passive to make those calls?
 

Gotham Gator

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I agree the first penalty call was correct. It was just trash from Ibby. If you want to grab someone's jersey, fine. But, you can't continue to hold onto it - and hold onto it - and pull back harder - and hold onto it. That's too obvious, and it's going to get called. And it actually makes a difference as he pulled Jozy away from the ball so that Jozy couldn't play it. After that, Jozy goes down because what other choice did he have?

The second penalty call, I hate. The ball came off Sweat's torso and barely grazed his arm. Yes, his arm was high over his body, but so what? Sweat had no time to react, and the touch didn't change the trajectory of the ball at all. Terrible penalty.

I didn't realize during the broadcast that Mavinga did get a Yellow Card for throwing his arm back against Taty. I don't think they ever actually mentioned it. I think it's a Red Card, but it's close. Mavinga was not looking at Taty, so he didn't know where his arm would hit. I agree it will be interesting to see what the DISCO does.

There were some poor calls last night, but I don't think Penso was nearly as bad as Petrescu in our prior game against New England. Petrescu totally lost the game, had no consistency in his calls, and made major errors. It was awful.
 

adam

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Ben Sweat isn’t good enough for this team. Reffing was bad but Ben Sweat was FUCKING TERRIBLE tonight. Fucking terrible. Drop his piece of shit ass and play Miller. I’ll drice him back to fucking Tampa. He’s fucking terrible. Enough of this shit with him seeing the field.
I’ve missed you Midas Mulligan Midas Mulligan

ETA: wrote that before I saw the real Midas Mulligan Midas Mulligan actually posted. Guess it just takes some Sweat hate to bring him back.
 
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Brooklyn Blue

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I agree the first penalty call was correct. It was just trash from Ibby. If you want to grab someone's jersey, fine. But, you can't continue to hold onto it - and hold onto it - and pull back harder - and hold onto it. That's too obvious, and it's going to get called. And it actually makes a difference as he pulled Jozy away from the ball so that Jozy couldn't play it. After that, Jozy goes down because what other choice did he have?

The second penalty call, I hate. The ball came off Sweat's torso and barely grazed his arm. Yes, his arm was high over his body, but so what? Sweat had no time to react, and the touch didn't change the trajectory of the ball at all. Terrible penalty.

I didn't realize during the broadcast that Mavinga did get a Yellow Card for throwing his arm back against Taty. I don't think they ever actually mentioned it. I think it's a Red Card, but it's close. Mavinga was not looking at Taty, so he didn't know where his arm would hit. I agree it will be interesting to see what the DISCO does.

There were some poor calls last night, but I don't think Penso was nearly as bad as Petrescu in our prior game against New England. Petrescu totally lost the game, had no consistency in his calls, and made major errors. It was awful.
Interesting, and a measure of how subjective certain calls can be. For me the first penalty was soft. Ibby pulled jersey, but only after Jozy pulled jersey, and they were body to body for an extended period until Jozy flopped. If that earned a penalty, then Taty should beg for Penso to be referee every game (bloody nose aside).

On the other hand, the second penalty was fair to me. If you go to ground and chicken wing your arm, you get what you deserve. Sweat goes to ground enough - unfortunately - that he should know to keep his arms to his body. It was dumb, compounded by dumb.

The play at the end was handled properly, even if it was frustrating. The play had stopped for the foul. The hand to nose should have been a card, but not a penalty.

The biggest issues with Penso last night were the remedial errors moreso than the subjective penalty calls. That play in the first half was a back pass and should have been an indirect kick in the box. Also, after his extended "defense" on Ring, he should have stopped play and gone to a drop ball. Deflection off of a referee is not the same as the referee virtually dribbling the ball.
 

Gotham Gator

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On the other hand, the second penalty was fair to me. If you go to ground and chicken wing your arm, you get what you deserve. Sweat goes to ground enough - unfortunately - that he should know to keep his arms to his body. It was dumb, compounded by dumb.
I hear you, and that's what Tolleson and Joy were saying, but I don't get it. If the cross had come through and hit his arm first, even after a bounce or from a short distance, the extended arm implies intent, and you get a penalty. But, when it deflects off the chest, I don't think it is.
 
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Gotham Gator

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I caught this gem from the MLS site. It's from Penso's response when asked about the Castellanos - Mavinga incident.

"The action by Mavinga was reckless and disregarded the danger to or consequences for, the opponent. Mavinga did not use excessive force or brutality when swinging his arm," the officials explained as to why Mavinga did not merit a red card and was instead shown a yellow card.​

Umm... didn't use excessive force or brutality? Did you not see Taty's face? What does it take to be excessive? Does his eyeball have to be hanging out?
 

Keith Putnam

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the extended arm implies intent
In the recent Laws updates, IFAB has implicitly been attempting to remove all subjective interpretations of "intent" regarding handballs in the box. I get the technocratic impulse here, but it's resulted in a lot of shitty "handball" penalties.

I personally prefer dealing with the vagaries of "intent" rather than a reductio ad absurdum of "if the ball hits a defender's arm in the box it's a penalty", which is where we seem to be.
 

canchon

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I caught this gem from the MLS site. It's from Penso's response when asked about the Castellanos - Mavinga incident.

"The action by Mavinga was reckless and disregarded the danger to or consequences for, the opponent. Mavinga did not use excessive force or brutality when swinging his arm," the officials explained as to why Mavinga did not merit a red card and was instead shown a yellow card.​

Umm... didn't use excessive force or brutality? Did you not see Taty's face? What does it take to be excessive? Does his eyeball have to be hanging out?
He only bloodied his nose, for excessive force he would have had to break it, duh.
Ridiculous.