White Supremacists In Supporter Section

SoupInNYC

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Iunno, I get that people are offended by it and I wish people wouldn't say it but AFAICT it means something very different and not offensive to a lot of people and they don't necessarily mean offense when they say it.

Again, I wish that people wouldn't say it but I also wish that people wouldn't necessarily misjudge people's intentions when they do say it because I think it tends to make people dig their heels in and lead to entrenched disagreement.

Yes this is maybe a strange perspective. It's not black or white. I'm probably gonna get hacked now, like the last time I dared to express nuance.

P.S. I wish that people wouldn't say it.

I really wish people wouldn't say it and actually think there'd be a better chance of getting people to stop saying it if progressive interpretations of the word weren't forced down the throat of people who use it not intending to cause offense
Oy.

Agree Christopher Jee Christopher Jee. Though it is a bit like using colored. At some point regardless of intent, the use is just out of touch with the zeitgeist.
Agreed, I think there are a ton of parallels to other symbols out there that have completely different meanings to different people and many of those that use the symbol, don't intend it in the disparaging fashion, but of course there are others that do.

I'll leave it at that, am being intentionally vague as I'm trying to not get the thread down another tangent.
 

Christopher Jee

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Oy.

Agree Christopher Jee Christopher Jee. Though it is a bit like using colored. At some point regardless of intent, the use is just out of touch with the zeitgeist.
Agreed. The question is how to persuade people to join the zeitgeist. Or create a new zeitgeist that we can all coexist harmoniously in. Otherwise... I think history tells us that we create factions that become increasingly tense and sometimes, and recently, violent.
 

hapooneta

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Agreed. The question is how to persuade people to join the zeitgeist. Or create a new zeitgeist that we can all coexist harmoniously in. Otherwise... I think history tells us that we create factions that become increasingly tense and sometimes, and recently, violent.
I mean Spanish people have been using Puto as a homophobic and non homophobic slur it really just depends on the context
 

FootyLovin

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Agreed. The question is how to persuade people to join the zeitgeist. Or create a new zeitgeist that we can all coexist harmoniously in. Otherwise... I think history tells us that we create factions that become increasingly tense and sometimes, and recently, violent.
If you figure that out, you've got my vote for whatever office you want to run for.

Of course, I'd already probably vote for you.
 

Christopher Jee

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If you figure that out, you've got my vote for whatever office you want to run for.

Of course, I'd already probably vote for you.
Andrew Yang is building a pretty broad and diverse support base from across the political spectrum.

Sat down and talked to the comedian who called him a "Jew chink". Has won the allegiance of rehabilitated white supremacists.

Seems to go beyond simply condemning people and recognizes that the beholders of even abhorrent ideas are mostly path dependent and that people's paths can (and for the safety of society, must) be changed.

 

LionNYC

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Andrew Yang is building a pretty broad and diverse support base from across the political spectrum.

Sat down and talked to the comedian who called him a "Jew chink". Has won the allegiance of rehabilitated white supremacists.

Seems to go beyond simply condemning people and recognizes that the beholders of even abhorrent ideas are mostly path dependent and that people's paths can (and for the safety of society, must) be changed.

Yang Gang!
 

BxLio91

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Andrew Yang is building a pretty broad and diverse support base from across the political spectrum.

Sat down and talked to the comedian who called him a "Jew chink". Has won the allegiance of rehabilitated white supremacists.

Seems to go beyond simply condemning people and recognizes that the beholders of even abhorrent ideas are mostly path dependent and that people's paths can (and for the safety of society, must) be changed.

How long do I have to blow a racist until he changes his mind and learns he isn't automatically better than me because he was born white?
 
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BxLio91

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Who says you have to blow a racist?
"Seems to go beyond simply condemning people and recognizes that the beholders of even abhorrent ideas are mostly path dependent and that people's paths can (and for the safety of society, must) be changed."
The solution to end racism is to protect the racist's feelings and hope he sees the light?
 

Christopher Jee

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"Seems to go beyond simply condemning people and recognizes that the beholders of even abhorrent ideas are mostly path dependent and that people's paths can (and for the safety of society, must) be changed."
The solution to end racism is to protect the racist's feelings and hope he sees the light?
No, I think that is a mischaracterization of what I'm saying. As is "blow a racist".

I think it's very hard to solve a problem without understanding it. And it's hard to understand a problem if the only solution in your toolbox is to ban and condemn. That approach puts problematic ideas and people with problematic ideas in the margins where they build resentment and often cohorts of fellow-believers in isolation, without interference from the people who put them there. They're also unlikely to be exposed to the kind of people they need to be exposed to in order to find out that their ideas are wrong. Most importantly, when we try to put these ideas in our blind spots it is very hard for us understand how these ideas propagate. This is partially how the resurgence of far right activity has caught people by surprise.

While it may feel good to punish people who have done bad things or even just have ideas that offend us,
the problem isn't solved until people give up these ideas. I'm inspired by the work of people like Darryl Davis and Deeyah Khan, who prove that while it's more difficult to talk to people one disagrees with, it's also more effective. It's not about protecting their feelings, or punishment, or what's fair and what's unfair, but about moving forward and improving the situation.

Some stuff on Deeyah Khan: https://www.vox.com/world/2019/1/14/18151799/extremism-white-supremacy-jihadism-deeyah-khan

On Daryl Davis: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes
 

Kenny

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No, I think that is a mischaracterization of what I'm saying. As is "blow a racist".

I think it's very hard to solve a problem without understanding it. And it's hard to understand a problem if the only solution in your toolbox is to ban and condemn. That approach puts problematic ideas and people with problematic ideas in the margins where they build resentment and often cohorts of fellow-believers in isolation, without interference from the people who put them there. They're also unlikely to be exposed to the kind of people they need to be exposed to in order to find out that their ideas are wrong. Most importantly, when we try to put these ideas in our blind spots it is very hard for us understand how these ideas propagate. This is partially how the resurgence of far right activity has caught people by surprise.

While it may feel good to punish people who have done bad things or even just have ideas that offend us,
the problem isn't solved until people give up these ideas. I'm inspired by the work of people like Darryl Davis and Deeyah Khan, who prove that while it's more difficult to talk to people one disagrees with, it's also more effective. It's not about protecting their feelings, or punishment, or what's fair and what's unfair, but about moving forward and improving the situation.

Some stuff on Deeyah Khan: https://www.vox.com/world/2019/1/14/18151799/extremism-white-supremacy-jihadism-deeyah-khan

On Daryl Davis: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes
Fascinating stuff, thanks for posting. Very apropos given today's holiday!
 

BxLio91

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No, I think that is a mischaracterization of what I'm saying. As is "blow a racist".

I think it's very hard to solve a problem without understanding it. And it's hard to understand a problem if the only solution in your toolbox is to ban and condemn. That approach puts problematic ideas and people with problematic ideas in the margins where they build resentment and often cohorts of fellow-believers in isolation, without interference from the people who put them there. They're also unlikely to be exposed to the kind of people they need to be exposed to in order to find out that their ideas are wrong. Most importantly, when we try to put these ideas in our blind spots it is very hard for us understand how these ideas propagate. This is partially how the resurgence of far right activity has caught people by surprise.

While it may feel good to punish people who have done bad things or even just have ideas that offend us,
the problem isn't solved until people give up these ideas. I'm inspired by the work of people like Darryl Davis and Deeyah Khan, who prove that while it's more difficult to talk to people one disagrees with, it's also more effective. It's not about protecting their feelings, or punishment, or what's fair and what's unfair, but about moving forward and improving the situation.

Some stuff on Deeyah Khan: https://www.vox.com/world/2019/1/14/18151799/extremism-white-supremacy-jihadism-deeyah-khan

On Daryl Davis: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes
Will check those out when I can.
I just can't reach across the aisle to people who view me as subhuman and hate me because of my race.
The only people who are shocked that there's so much white supremacists around are clearly not black because we know the history of this country. We gotta deal with BS all the time while people tell us we're overreacting and making everything about race. Now some of those people can't fathom why it's as widespread as it is. They chose to ignore it, normalize it, excuse it with terms like "economic anxiety" and they let WS get away with dog whistles.
 
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Christopher Jee

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Will check those out when I can.
I just can't reach across the aisle to people who view me as subhuman and hate me because of my race.
The only people who are shocked that there's so much white supremacists around are clearly not black because we know the history of this country. We gotta deal with BS all the time while people tell us we're overreacting and making everything about race. Now some of those people can't fathom why it's as widespread as it is.
Yeah I feel you. I've dealt with racism all my life, although it's different for every body (I grew up Chinese Malaysian in Australia and then on top of that each specific circumstance is different). Even in a city like New York, while much more accommodating, still has its aggressions! And it's not just white people lol.

What has helped for me is separating the aggressions (which are definitely there) from my actions. I don't find that reacting or making things about race, however justified or satisfying in the short term, tends to improve things either in terms of my own mental health or out there in the real world. Like you say, people tend to treat it as overreaction or making everything about race. Which makes sense when you consider that a lot of people don't know what it feels like and don't have the experience to relate. I honestly don't blame people because I don't think they're trying _not_ to get it. They just don't.

Honestly I think the path forward is through empathy and understanding and persuasion. A lot of people become hateful because they themselves are in different kinds of shitty situations. I think the goal is to give people better expectations and a mindset of abundance. When people have a mindset of scarcity it's much easier to scapegoat people with conspicuous differences (race, color, gender, etc.).
 

BxLio91

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Yeah I feel you. I've dealt with racism all my life, although it's different for every body (I grew up Chinese Malaysian in Australia and then on top of that each specific circumstance is different). Even in a city like New York, while much more accommodating, still has its aggressions! And it's not just white people lol.

What has helped for me is separating the aggressions (which are definitely there) from my actions. I don't find that reacting or making things about race, however justified or satisfying in the short term, tends to improve things either in terms of my own mental health or out there in the real world. Like you say, people tend to treat it as overreaction or making everything about race. Which makes sense when you consider that a lot of people don't know what it feels like and don't have the experience to relate. I honestly don't blame people because I don't think they're trying _not_ to get it. They just don't.

Honestly I think the path forward is through empathy and understanding and persuasion. A lot of people become hateful because they themselves are in different kinds of shitty situations. I think the goal is to give people better expectations and a mindset of abundance. When people have a mindset of scarcity it's much easier to scapegoat people with conspicuous differences (race, color, gender, etc.).
I don't buy the "economic anxiety" excuse for any sort of extremism. I know plenty of white people who aren't rich yet managed to not blame different races for their situation because of some belief that being white should automatically qualify them to live better than others. The compassion and understanding shown to WS whose cause for racism is economic anxiety is never shown to poor minorities who turn to crime for survival or young people who turn to Muslim extremism. I'm sure we know why.
The reach across the aisle has been tried for a long time. We're always the ones who have to forgive and accommodate. Dylan Roof was welcomed in that church like any human being. MLK who people love to parade as the docile negro tried to do the whole kumbaya and we know what he got for his troubles.
I'm not afforded the ability to model minority my way into the hearts of racists. I'm not interested in begging people to see me as a human being.
There's plenty of people who do and they deserve my love and time.
More power to you.
And I hope you don't take it as personal attacks. It's more about me venting about some of the discourse I see especially on days like today.
 

Christopher Jee

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I don't buy the "economic anxiety" excuse for any sort of extremism. I know plenty of white people who aren't rich yet managed to not blame different races for their situation because of some belief that being white should automatically qualify them to live better than others. The compassion and understanding shown to WS whose cause for racism is economic anxiety is never shown to poor minorities who turn to crime for survival or young people who turn to Muslim extremism. I'm sure we know why.
The reach across the aisle has been tried for a long time. We're always the ones who have to forgive and accommodate. Dylan Roof was welcomed in that church like any human being. MLK who people love to parade as the docile negro tried to do the whole kumbaya and we know what he got for his troubles.
I'm not afforded the ability to model minority my way into the hearts of racists. I'm not interested in begging people to see me as a human being.
There's plenty of people who do and they deserve my love and time.
More power to you.
And I hope you don't take it as personal attacks. It's more about me venting about some of the discourse I see especially on days like today.
For sure. The model minority thing is a gift and a curse. The model definitely has a ceiling but it's also a form of privilege.

I don't think it's just economic anxiety (a lack of material wealth) either. Working theory is that it's a lack of anything to identify with. Asking people not to identify with anything is a big ask. But giving people something to identify with so they don't identify with hateful ideologies might be a thing. Football, for instance. And maybe another thing or two.

Again, nobody is asking anyone to beg to be seen as human. On the contrary, I think it's about seeing even those who don't see us as human as human and therefore fallible and prone to bad ideas but also as having the potential to shed bad ideas and embrace good ideas. The possibility for things being even worse is too bad not to try. I'm fortunate enough to not have experienced it first hand but my grandfather fled genocide in Indonesia.

Open to new ideas too if you have them.
 

BxLio91

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For sure. The model minority thing is a gift and a curse. The model definitely has a ceiling but it's also a form of privilege.

I don't think it's just economic anxiety (a lack of material wealth) either. Working theory is that it's a lack of anything to identify with. Asking people not to identify with anything is a big ask. But giving people something to identify with so they don't identify with hateful ideologies might be a thing. Football, for instance. And maybe another thing or two.

Again, nobody is asking anyone to beg to be seen as human. On the contrary, I think it's about seeing even those who don't see us as human as human and therefore fallible and prone to bad ideas but also as having the potential to shed bad ideas and embrace good ideas. The possibility for things being even worse is too bad not to try. I'm fortunate enough to not have experienced it first hand but my grandfather fled genocide in Indonesia.

Open to new ideas too if you have them.
Maybe Space Force will unite us all once we discover aliens intent on exterminating humans.
 

LionNYC

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I searched NYCSC and this was the forum that came up the most. In either related or unrelated news to the main purpose of this thread, NYCSC has lost official recognition as a supporter group from the NYCFC front office. Only the Third Rail is listed now.

 
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Shwafta

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I searched NYCSC and this was the forum that came up the most. In either related or unrelated news to the main purpose of this thread, NYCSC has lost official recognition as a supporter group from the NYCFC front office. Only the Third Rail is listed now.

So the other supporter groups are not 'official'?