I don't have a choice but to be uncompromisingly against white supremacy Neo nazis and their apologists. I don't have the skin color that allows me to turn a blind eye to shit like that. It's much easier to look the other way and let it fester when you won't be affected regardless.
White Supremacists In Supporter Section
- Thread starter NYCFC_Dan
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IMO this is a really important discussion. Having these kinds of discussions is difficult at the best of times, and caricaturing Kangaroo Jack 's position doesn't help at all. There are plenty of reasons why people venerate freedom of expression, and lots of examples of what can happen when freedom of expression is not protected.
I'm somebody who's deeply concerned with the growth of ethno-nationalist sentiment in this country (actually, globally) But I'm also not the kind of person who advocates throwing away centuries of liberal progress by setting dangerous precedents in order to solve immediate problems, no matter how troubling and immediate they may be.
I think we need a more sophisticated mindset to deal with these kinds of problems, and I'm hopeful that good faith, respectful discussion can help us (the broader us, not the forums lol) figure out how to solve them. Maybe someone's already figured it out and I'm just ignorant of it, but circumstances suggest that that's not the case.
You clearly dont have the reading comprehension skills to take part in a serious discussion. You also dont have the skin color that gets you labeled as racist by people like you for everything, simply because they are not intelligent enough to think beyond a to b.
Aligning with racists and copping pleas for them gets you labeled a racist. The false claim that every white person is labeled a racist by people of your ilk is the kind rhetoric you use to pit whites against non whites. They are plenty of white people who don't get called racists because guess what they're not aligning with racists. So miss me with your "so much for the tolerant left" horse shit. Racists are in the same bin as rapists and pedophiles. I will not associate myself with them and they wouldn't want me anyway. I'm not shocked at your position. It makes sense actually.
Sorry. While I understand
BxLio91 concern, it's also tiring to get labeled all the time, always for bs reasons. I've been labeled racist multiple times for serving in the military, for being friends with a police officer (who is black lol), for being a right-leaning voter, for living in the "uppity" suburb (despite living most of my life in the city) and even for supporting tax cuts, which somehow are racist? It's annoying for a person who has lived a life I am proud of and treat all people equally. Being called a racist is a serious thing and people need to chill with the rush to label people.
Not sure why you quoted me yoSorry. While I understand
Nobody disagrees that racists are shit, which is why you need to chill with throwing that label around to everyone without using some type of thought to determine if the person is actually racist.
Because I came in with a rather blunt and unsophisticated response when you, rightly so, suggested otherwise.
As someone who’s a target of both white supremecists and people of color, I’ll say that I too have an issue with straight up banning people entry to a public place based on their beliefs. It’s a slippery slope. That these particular individuals have a history of violence changes the narrative. We all need to be safe. So if that’s the case, it’s different. Do I want to sit next to Farrakhan at a match? Hells fucking no! But he has a right to come, and I might move to a different part of the stadium if he sat next to me. But that’s my right too. And that’s his. I’m sick of scenes of people being chased out of restaurants because of their views. That’s not America as it’s intended. Ok I’m done, carry on.
Okay everyone, let's keep this thread a peaceful place and on topic of the matter at hand and not personal attacks.
Otherwise, LionMod is coming out and deleting, locking, and temporary banning (have to figure out how to do that last one).
Otherwise, LionMod is coming out and deleting, locking, and temporary banning (have to figure out how to do that last one).
Agreed, but there is a difference once you bring in club sanctioned supporters groups and being affiliated with them.
And as previously noted, these particular people have a history of violence in and around NYCFC games.
I'm not saying ban anyone because of their particular beliefs, but the supporters groups need to do a good job of making them feel inclusive to all, and it appears that doesn't seem to be the case right now.
When you let shit like that fester, it grows. The Red Bulls win their 3rd shield since we came around and this crap is the biggest thing currently about our club. If not tolerating people who discriminate against race, religion and sexual preference makes me a bad person then so be it. You won't "both sides" me for not giving Neo nazis and their sympathizers passes. Again these people are aligned with groups involved in violent acts. What do you need before you want the club to make it clear that they will not be tolerated in our fandom? What do you need to see before you say those guys are bad news and I don't want to be even remotely lumped in with them? Do they have to bring flags with swastikas or klan robes? Physically attack people at NYCFC games? Or are they cool as long as they do it outside?
These guys are members of SPLC classified hate groups. Get them and your moral relativism the fuck out of here.
So I think we both agree. We should both also clarify there are 2 types of supporters groups. Ones that are recognized by the club (and there are benchmarks to get there; # of members, non-profit, etc...) and ones who are not. I think any groups that are recognized by the club should have a pledge of inclusiveness and anti-discrimination by its members as an additional benchmark. Because they in essence represent the club as a whole.
And any non-recognized group can do as they please, come to matches, and hate who they want. But the first instance of violence in the name of that group, should lead to all of them being banned.
PS. The forums with our scarves, swag, and random meetups is a non-recognized group. Just as an FYI. And we’re a pretty good example of how to self-police a supporters group.
I’ll add that there’s something in the legal realm about “it’s what you know and when you know it,” that determines exposure for people and groups. It’s one thing not to know what’s going on or who’s doing stuff or has done stuff, but once you find out, if you don’t take action to distance yourself or your group, things get very murky and intertwined. It’s why companies fire employees or employees leave their jobs the moment they find out the other has strayed across the ethical line.
These sanctioned clubs may not have known who/what they had in their ranks, but now they do - inaction is condoning the previous violence. Same with NYCFC.
The SPLC is a fucking disgrace. Not saying they are wrong here, but their list of hate groups is, in itself, hateful and deeply discriminatory
These things I think I agree with. The parts I cut out I still feel dubious about.
I think the problem is that this isn't Minority Report and we don't have 4 oracles chilling in a tub to tell us what people are gonna do. Anyway, the point of that film is that you have ethical dilemmas even if you do.
The problem with rules is that any rule can be gamed. And we don't have instantaneous, telepathic, hive-mind-like direct democracy (speaking of which, I do miss Hivemind). So I'm honestly at a bit of a loss.
Oh I don’t know, seems like they have a inclusive & centered moral compass & use pretty factual information and standards for their list
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