Being a "Supporter" Means ...

[FootyLovin]

"Supporter" (or "fan") means different things to different people. No one right answer. I get that.

But I wasn't embarrassed by my team during RBNJ nearly as much as I was embarrassed by our fans. You may not like the quality or the tactics, but I saw a tired team working and simply getting beat.

We were all so gaga over the Portland supporters and their atmosphere. And while they've never been beaten 7-0 at home by a rival, I can't imagine they'd react the way we did. And how did we react?

• Coming off a 5-game unbeaten streak our SS chanted, "We're fucking shit."
• Bottle(s) thrown onto the field.
• Repeated booing.
• And when our players, our team, who we supposedly "support", came to the north side of the field after the game to throw balls into the crowd, they were greeted with the chant, "Throw it back," which at least one "supporter" did.

From reading the RBNJ postgame thread, most of you seem to agree with this behavior. But to me, this isn't "support". This is the definition of being a fair weather fan. I'd even go so far as to say, this is the behavior of "plastic supporters" who aren't really about lifting their team, but rather, simply want a wealthy parent to splash cash to buy them wins.

It's easy to cheer your team when they are winning. The challenge of being a supporter is lifting your team up when they are down.

I expect to get eviscerated for this. (In my house there is a running joke of saying, "Kick him because he's different.") But I also wanted to have my say on an alternate way of being a supporter. Have at it my friends ...

 

[mgarbowski]

I'll meet you part way. I'm not sure if it's halfway. I fully oppose the fan actions in your first 2 bullet points. I think home booing should be rarely invoked but yesterday was as justified as it can be. Booing a player who proved he doesn't care if he's here or not 18 months ago is a matter of self-respect by the fans.

The ball throwbacks is a shame, but not IMO because the fans were clearly wrong. It was a shame because we can't directly boo the combined front office, including everyone from the sporting director to PR to marketing to what have you. Yesterday they inconvenienced us by delaying the game. They showed an absolutely tone deaf attitude by giving the PA guy a script to call Lampard Super Frank, which was questionable under ideal circumstances but at 5-0 somebody should have had the damn sense to send him a note saying just call him by his name. Then, after that calamity someone should have said "guys, just clap at the fans and walk off the field." It wasn't the right day for that kind of gesture. Despite that, Inever really abide responding to a kindness with rudeness. So it's a shame.

Finally, I pay money to them. They pay nothing to me. That doesn't give me a license to be rude, and my general standards of behavior always apply. But all of the non-monetary obligations flow from them to me. I owe them nothing else. Nobody judges me for how well I support Target, or Disney World, or the Gap. I reject any effort to judge me for how well I support the opposing side of a commercial transaction beyond basic commercial and human ethics: don't cheat, don't lie, use basic decency and civility. Frankly, they've done worse to us than we have to them on that standard.

 

[Seven]

I was not at the game, so I can't really speak to the atmosphere inside the stadium, however, I think it's pretty low to throw back balls that the players are told to hand out after games. I was so embarrassed by the game, so I can't even imagine what some of the players are thinking. They are well aware they did awful. Don't need to add insult to injury by throwing things at them.

That being said...it was very frustrating to watch that game. I don't think this team is as bad as that score line. But how do professional soccer players get so mentally beaten in a rivalry game on a national stage!?

As a supporter, I will still be wearing my jersey proudly come next Sunday, and rooting on the team to crush Orlando. As I would be if we lost every other game this season (which they better not). Still, this loss hurt.

 

[Ulrich]

"Supporter" (or "fan") means different things to different people. No one right answer. I get that.

But I wasn't embarrassed by my team during RBNJ nearly as much as I was embarrassed by our fans. You may not like the quality or the tactics, but I saw a tired team working and simply getting beat.

We were all so gaga over the Portland supporters and their atmosphere. And while they've never been beaten 7-0 at home by a rival, I can't imagine they'd react the way we did. And how did we react?

• Coming off a 5-game unbeaten streak our SS chanted, "We're fucking shit."
• Bottle(s) thrown onto the field.
• Repeated booing.
• And when our players, our team, who we supposedly "support", came to the north side of the field after the game to throw balls into the crowd, they were greeted with the chant, "Throw it back," which at least one "supporter" did.

From reading the RBNJ postgame thread, most of you seem to agree with this behavior. But to me, this isn't "support". This is the definition of being a fair weather fan. I'd even go so far as to say, this is the behavior of "plastic supporters" who aren't really about lifting their team, but rather, simply want a wealthy parent to splash cash to buy them wins.

It's easy to cheer your team when they are winning. The challenge of being a supporter is lifting your team up when they are down.

I expect to get eviscerated for this. (In my house there is a running joke of saying, "Kick him because he's different.") But I also wanted to have my say on an alternate way of being a supporter. Have at it my friends ...

I think it's hard to call anybody a plastic / fair weather fan when they've continued to support them game in and game out from day one. The fans have suffered a lot by watching the team come out flat for four derbies - that's habitual.

Showing anguish and disappointment is not wrong, especially for professional athletes. If it was, every parent would be living in kumbaya land and just hoping their kids learn from mistakes while telling them it's ok and they're doing it right. some of the antics from the fans were in poor taste but most were fine and deserved - booing Frank was deserved. Throwing post-game stuff back was deserved. The We're fcking shit chant was the only one that went over the line, but in truth, their play yesterday was summarized correctly (the chant wasn't We're fcking shit all season long).

Honestly, nobody probably wants rich owners to come in and just buy wins, but when rich owners take fans for suckers by putting out false pressers (Frank), fleecing them at the cash register on game day, and then putting out a lifeless team against their main rival, it's understandable how tempers could flare and anger be vented. I don't mind paying what they charge because I'm expecting to be entertained win or lose, but yesterday wasn't entertainment, it was a horrible attempt to replicate the Red Wedding, and we were the suckers.

Edit- the bottle throwing was bad. Didn't see it during the game and didn't think about it in my response.

 

[twsj91]

It's a message to the front office, not necessarily the players. The fans need to voice their opinion to force change in the way this club has been run over the past two years. Throwing things on the field is an embarrassment. Makes me sick. Just makes the fan base look bad as a whole. Booing doesn't make you "plastic" it's an expression of frustration over something you care (in my case probably way to much) about. As a fan base i hope we can be classier in expressing our emotions. To be honest yesterday I let out way to many curses and yelled way to many inappropriate comments. It was a wake up call to me, to grow up as a 25 year old, but that doesn't mean I won't continue to express my frustration with the management of this club. There's a classier way to express emotions then just pure vulgar. I love the players and the effort they put in for us, but sometimes a good kick in the rear doesn't hurt as well. CTID.

 

[PaddingtonB.]

Taking the good times with the bad times.

 

[Nelson Jay]

It's a message to the front office, not necessarily the players. The fans need to voice their opinion to force change in the way this club has been run over the past two years. Throwing things on the field is an embarrassment. Makes me sick. Just makes the fan base look bad as a whole. Booing doesn't make you "plastic" it's an expression of frustration over something you care (in my case probably way to much) about. As a fan base i hope we can be classier in expressing our emotions. To be honest yesterday I let out way to many curses and yelled way to many inappropriate comments. It was a wake up call to me, to grow up as a 25 year old, but that doesn't mean I won't continue to express my frustration with the management of this club. There's a classier way to express emotions then just pure vulgar. I love the players and the effort they put in for us, but sometimes a good kick in the rear doesn't hurt as well. CTID.

long time nycfcforum lurker, first post I guess. I completely agree with your post, as a 25 Yr old myself. I had security look at me and told me to "cut it" as I yelled F*** you Red bulls into their chant. after that I was quiet the rest of the game. Thinking of what I have done and childish I must have looked. I looked around and saw how empty the stadium was and wondered if THIS is what is needed for this club to work harder for the fans,. The ones that stood until the whistle.

 

[Angela Miller]

THANKS Mr Footy Loving for this thread ! Your Awesome Sweetie!! Being A Supporter In This Game is First Foremost and Forever The Right To Be BAT SHIT CRAZY About a team or a player!!! This is Football Love Loyalty Pain and Joy is what we sign up for People! Sticking with a Team or a player No Matter What is what this Game is! No Other Sport has song after song sung to them or has The Crazy fan base that Football Has! AND TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS FORUM, The Right to Express ourselves without fear of being labeled an Asshole or Deranged Stalker!! Fuck You to all of who think that!! You think you know me You don't know Shit!! It's about the long hull not some instant gratification people! So Ask Yourselves this people if you have the ball's pardon the pun What do you want masturbation or making love?? This is On you to show who you are on the inside and what your made of ! I'm for Love and only Love True Love for a player or team! But i'll be the one who receives The Hate ! Yes i called it Football not Soccer! God Bless All Us True Bat Shit Crazy Football People!! I'll end this like i started by Thanking Mr Footy Loving you came to my rescue and defense once I'll never forget that! We and the people of this forum need you ! Your NY at its best!! No this is Not Stalking Haters ! So i'm proud in all my bat shit crazy to be your supporter!! But The Haters are Gonna Hate ! Amen!!

 

[ZYanksRule]

I'll meet you part way. I'm not sure if it's halfway. I fully oppose the fan actions in your first 2 bullet points. I think home booing should be rarely invoked but yesterday was as justified as it can be. Booing a player who proved he doesn't care if he's here or not 18 months ago is a matter of self-respect by the fans.

The ball throwbacks is a shame, but not IMO because the fans were clearly wrong. It was a shame because we can't directly boo the combined front office, including everyone from the sporting director to PR to marketing to what have you. Yesterday they inconvenienced us by delaying the game. They showed an absolutely tone deaf attitude by giving the PA guy a script to call Lampard Super Frank, which was questionable under ideal circumstances but at 5-0 somebody should have had the damn sense to send him a note saying just call him by his name. Then, after that calamity someone should have said "guys, just clap at the fans and walk off the field." It wasn't the right day for that kind of gesture. Despite that, Inever really abide responding to a kindness with rudeness. So it's a shame.

Finally, I pay money to them. They pay nothing to me. That doesn't give me a license to be rude, and my general standards of behavior always apply. But all of the non-monetary obligations flow from them to me. I owe them nothing else. Nobody judges me for how well I support Target, or Disney World, or the Gap. I reject any effort to judge me for how well I support the opposing side of a commercial transaction beyond basic commercial and human ethics: don't cheat, don't lie, use basic decency and civility. Frankly, they've done worse to us than we have to them on that standard.

NYCFC had absolutely nothing -- 0% -- to do with delaying the game. That was a FOX Sports decision. Your anger for that should go to MLS, not to NYCFC. The only strange thing NYCFC did, there was no in-stadium announcement saying the game would kick 20 minutes later than expected. Obviously when warmups were delayed we all realized what was happening, but there should have been an announcement or a message on the board saying the game would be delayed due to FOX Sports.

 

[ZYanksRule]

"Supporter" (or "fan") means different things to different people. No one right answer. I get that.

But I wasn't embarrassed by my team during RBNJ nearly as much as I was embarrassed by our fans. You may not like the quality or the tactics, but I saw a tired team working and simply getting beat.

We were all so gaga over the Portland supporters and their atmosphere. And while they've never been beaten 7-0 at home by a rival, I can't imagine they'd react the way we did. And how did we react?

• Coming off a 5-game unbeaten streak our SS chanted, "We're fucking shit."
• Bottle(s) thrown onto the field.
• Repeated booing.
• And when our players, our team, who we supposedly "support", came to the north side of the field after the game to throw balls into the crowd, they were greeted with the chant, "Throw it back," which at least one "supporter" did.

From reading the RBNJ postgame thread, most of you seem to agree with this behavior. But to me, this isn't "support". This is the definition of being a fair weather fan. I'd even go so far as to say, this is the behavior of "plastic supporters" who aren't really about lifting their team, but rather, simply want a wealthy parent to splash cash to buy them wins.

It's easy to cheer your team when they are winning. The challenge of being a supporter is lifting your team up when they are down.

I expect to get eviscerated for this. (In my house there is a running joke of saying, "Kick him because he's different.") But I also wanted to have my say on an alternate way of being a supporter. Have at it my friends ...

In my mind, being a true supporter is an honest relationship with a team. If they would have lost 3-2 or so, I would have been fine with that. To get run off the field by your biggest rival is unacceptable, and even though the players, coach, and front office know that, it is perfectly acceptable IMO to let them know we don't appreciate the way they played that game. To me, booing them after that performance is supporting them. It's pushing them to be better than that.

One of the reasons I became an NYCFC fan is when I went to my first game last June, it felt like a family atmosphere in the stadium. It felt like the club actually appreciated their fans who were attending. That's something you don't normally see at Yankee Stadium, and something you don't see in this market in any other major-league sport. But I do think the team is starting to take their fans for granted. "Super Frank," throwing balls out after a 7-0 loss -- they need to reevaluate how they operate from the top down.

So that's why I was booing. I felt like the entire operation, from game ops to the on-field product, was taking their fans for granted. The moment you do that, I boo. Again, it's an honest relationship I have with my teams. I rarely boo -- these athletes know when it's not good enough, and they care -- even when it looks like they don't. Booing a game like that is, to me, acceptable considering the circumstances. I still love them, I'll still go to another game in a couple weeks, but they need to know how I feel about their performance. From the players to the front office.

 

[Seth]

NYCFC had absolutely nothing -- 0% -- to do with delaying the game. That was a FOX Sports decision. Your anger for that should go to MLS, not to NYCFC. The only strange thing NYCFC did, there was no in-stadium announcement saying the game would kick 20 minutes later than expected. Obviously when warmups were delayed we all realized what was happening, but there should have been an announcement or a message on the board saying the game would be delayed due to FOX Sports.

I did see one notice on the scoreboard about this but that was it. They said it would be delayed because the FA Cup match was in extra time, or something like that. No mention of TV coverage though, and no PA announcement as far as I know.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I did see one notice on the scoreboard about this but that was it. They said it would be delayed because the FA Cup match was in extra time, or something like that. No mention of TV coverage though, and no PA announcement as far as I know.

Oh, OK. I must have missed that on the board. There was no PA announcement, which I found strange.

 

[Jock]

Well, I was right in the heart of the things you have taken issue with, so I guess i'll address them.

Booing Frank Lampard, as people have suggested, is entirely justified: far too much money for far too little effort.

Booing other players at full time or half time, I also believe to be truly justified, because they were complete shit and looked like they didn't want to put any effort in. It should also be noted that I left the game hoarse from shouting encouragement all the way through as I do every game.

I was also shouting at City Beats at half time for looking too cheery when we were 3-0 down!

Throwing the balls back is almost to be expected. Few of the players even came near our section at the end of the game, because they knew they were going to receive dog's abuse and rightly so.

As for the chants of "we're fucking shit", I'm going to suggest that that is a characteristic of having so many British fans. Us Brits are self-effacing, like to joke about negatives and would rather find humour and excitement in a situation than get depressed by it. We also chanted "let's pretend we scored a goal" and then cheered, which I thought was great!

Some people left early - that seems less committed than someone who stayed for the entire 90, even if they did have a dig at the players and throw the token balls back.

TL;DR People who go along to every game and support the team can be expected to be a little riled after the worst result in our history, but it doesn't make them bad fans, just enjoying themselves in different ways.

PS also - left out of this, but things that I FOUND to be bad behaviour by fans - fights outside the stadium (before and after the game) yelling directly at individual Red Bull fans who were in our section. Swearing at and flipping off little kids who were celebrating RB goals. Don't worry about the guys who turn up and have a maudlin joke at the players who just got done in on the field, worry about the assholes.

 

[twsj91]

Well, I was right in the heart of the things you have taken issue with, so I guess i'll address them.

Booing Frank Lampard, as people have suggested, is entirely justified: far too much money for far too little effort.

Booing other players at full time or half time, I also believe to be truly justified, because they were complete shit and looked like they didn't want to put any effort in. It should also be noted that I left the game hoarse from shouting encouragement all the way through as I do every game.

I was also shouting at City Beats at half time for looking too cheery when we were 3-0 down!

Throwing the balls back is almost to be expected. Few of the players even came near our section at the end of the game, because they knew they were going to receive dog's abuse and rightly so.

As for the chants of "we're fucking shit", I'm going to suggest that that is a characteristic of having so many British fans. Us Brits are self-effacing, like to joke about negatives and would rather find humour and excitement in a situation than get depressed by it. We also chanted "let's pretend we scored a goal" and then cheered, which I thought was great!

Some people left early - that seems less committed than someone who stayed for the entire 90, even if they did have a dig at the players and throw the token balls back.

TL;DR People who go along to every game and support the team can be expected to be a little riled after the worst result in our history, but it doesn't make them bad fans, just enjoying themselves in different ways.

PS also - left out of this, but things that I FOUND to be bad behaviour by fans - fights outside the stadium (before and after the game) yelling directly at individual Red Bull fans who were in our section. Swearing at and flipping off little kids who were celebrating RB goals. Don't worry about the guys who turn up and have a maudlin joke at the players who just got done in on the field, worry about the assholes.

This.

 

[mgarbowski]

NYCFC had absolutely nothing -- 0% -- to do with delaying the game. That was a FOX Sports decision. Your anger for that should go to MLS, not to NYCFC. The only strange thing NYCFC did, there was no in-stadium announcement saying the game would kick 20 minutes later than expected. Obviously when warmups were delayed we all realized what was happening, but there should have been an announcement or a message on the board saying the game would be delayed due to FOX Sports.

I'm fully aware of that, but pretending that NYCFC is not part of MLS and somehow not responsible for those decisions is ridiculous. This would be true in any sports league, btw, and not dependent on single-entity status. But, single-entity makes the distinction even less justifiable.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I'm fully aware of that, but pretending that NYCFC is not part of MLS and somehow not responsible for those decisions is ridiculous. This would be true in any sports league, btw, and not dependent on single-entity status. But, single-entity makes the distinction even less justifiable.

OK, so who in NYCFC's front office do you blame for a decision that rests in the MLS offices? You're misplacing your anger for this -- it should be with Don Garber, not with NYCFC. Ferran Soriano and CLaudio Reyna did not have the game time moved by 30 minutes.

Saying NYCFC is responsible for that decision because MLS is a single-entity, I just feel like you're angry at the team for the game yesterday and taking it out on them for reasons both legitimate and illegitimate.

 

[mgarbowski]

I answered FootyLovin's question in its particulars, but ignored the big picture. You might be able to glean my approach from my response but I can be more direct.
I simply and fundamentally reject the club/supporter paradigm, except to the extent it is a pleasing fiction that brings me enjoyment. It is a paradigm that has a historical basis, but limited true applicability today. Most of the UK and other soccer/football clubs in other countries formed on that basis. Some of the older US sports teams have arguably similar roots, but few were true community clubs, and were commercial enterprises from the start. But the leagues were generally local and regional, and local clubs were at least founded usually by local business people and relied solely upon local support. I suppose the Green Bay Packers are the closest thing I can think of to something on the true club/supporter paradigm in the US, but again, the US version of how older clubs/teams were founded is close enough. But some time in the second half of the 20th Century the club/team side of the paradigm changed fundamentally, both overseas and here in the US. It varies league to league and club to club. But over the course of decades the teams and the leagues changed and so did the relationship.
There was a time when owning and running a sports team even in the US was not so focused on revenue maximization. It was a gentleman's hobby. Which is not to say they were benevolent. They cheated. They paid the players as little as possible. They had many other flaws. But if you look at prices, and how fans were treated in terms of impositions on our time, wallets etc., things were different. As late as the 1970s few teams made a meaningful profit compared to investments the owners could have made elsewhere. Make all the inflation adjustments you want: more was given away for free and things that always cost money cost less. Again, I'm not saying it was a golden age: flaws, cheating, segregation, etc. It's just one difference, but it's important: nobody had a laser focus on getting as much money as possible out of every fan possible.
There has been a similar and parallel development in college sports. Once upon a time college sports was based on the idea that you make up a team of the students who happen to come to our school and put them up against the students of other similar schools in our region and see who's best. That hasn't been true for decades either.
But the loyalty engendered by the club/supporter paradigm and alumni/local resident devotion linger and have been turned into giant revenue maximizing enterprises. I have no problem with that. Capitalism and free enterprise is good (although whether you can call the state run giant mega-college teams a part of free enterprise system is doubtful itself). But I won't pretend that the relationship of NYCFC to me is anything but an attempt to get me to voluntarily hand over as much money as possible. I didn't mention Disney World in my prior answer by accident. That place is the "Happiest Place On Earth" and is Where Dreams Come True. The employees are called cast members and tell you to "have a magical day" at the end of many interactions. It's a show, and it's a something of a sham but it's not a fraud. Everyone except for the truly little ones understand what is going on. I embrace it because my family and I enjoy it. But I'm not fooled by it. I just willingly suspend the disbelief enough to get my enjoyment from it while paying for the privilege. Similarly, the club/supporter paradigm is something we as fans want to embrace and act as if it is true and real. There is no harm in that, but I never forget that it is a show. Just like Disney World. The ownership, league, and players are united and aligned 100% in trying to maximize revenue from me, and the paradigm is one of their biggest tools in their kit. This is now true in every major sports league.
I pay my money. I pretend my passion makes me part of a collective enterprise. But this is not my family, my church, my city or my country. It's a business, and I'm a paying customer.

 

[mgarbowski]

OK, so who in NYCFC's front office do you blame for a decision that rests in the MLS offices? You're misplacing your anger for this -- it should be with Don Garber, not with NYCFC. Ferran Soriano and CLaudio Reyna did not have the game time moved by 30 minutes.

Saying NYCFC is responsible for that decision because MLS is a single-entity, I just feel like you're angry at the team for the game yesterday and taking it out on them for reasons both legitimate and illegitimate.

Did NYCFC vote against the Fox deal and try to get the league to take a deal that retained team control of start times in return for less money? I am aware of no evidence for that. My belief is NYCFC is on board with that deal. So I blame them for that.

 

[SFphoto]

The on field display yesterday was a disgrace and an embarrassment. I personally believe that they got what they deserved. Whoever thought that having them go and kick mini balls into the stands is crazy. Just another completely out of touch decision by the team.

Sure. Back them when they lose, buy put in a food effort and played with some heart. But yesterday was lacking both of those.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Did NYCFC vote against the Fox deal and try to get the league to take a deal that retained team control of start times in return for less money? I am aware of no evidence for that. My belief is NYCFC is on board with that deal. So I blame them for that.

TV runs the ship in every single sport in America. This is not an MLS-only issue. How about during the playoffs in MLB, NHL, and NBA, where the league/teams don't even announce start times until a day before the game. Delaying a start by 25 minutes is peanuts compared to that.