It’s hard not to be mad at cfg over this . There’s no way it would be an issue for us financially or scouting wise to bring in a solid established scorer from somewhere but that doesn’t fit their sell on model .
Jovan Mijatović [Forward]
- Thread starter LionNYC
- Start date
I've lost patience with both him and Bakrar, but still rooting for both.
I've completely lost patience with David Lee, not a single one of his multi-million dollar transfer signings is currently an impact player for this roster. Magno, Ojeda, Fernandez, Mijatović, Bakrar....
He gets credit for Wolf and Martinez so he's at least getting some of the supporting role-player signings right but those guys should be complementary to the big-money signings not completely outplaying all of them.
He was invisible in the two cup matches I watched. I don't know if he has gotten other minutes with them.
There's no positive argument for giving him playing time that's based on anything he's shown since arriving. There's "we paid $8M so he must be good," and there's wishcasting about his supposed attributes and/or youtube highlights.
There's a possible negative argument for giving him playing time that the other options are all worse, especially for those that don't rate Martinez's goals for whatever reason.
It takes time for players to adjust to MLS, especially young players.
Listen I completely understand the desire to be good immediately, but David Lee is building something sustainable. Ojeda has been pretty good, not sure I agree that he hasn't had an impact. I expect Mijatovic to improve with time -- he's 18 years old halfway across the world. Give him time. I really think we need to have some patience with these guys. They're too skilled not to cash in at some point. I strongly believe this is being built so that next year is our year to be a top team in the league. Whatever happens this year -- and so far so good -- is gravy.
Listen I completely understand the desire to be good immediately, but David Lee is building something sustainable. Ojeda has been pretty good, not sure I agree that he hasn't had an impact. I expect Mijatovic to improve with time -- he's 18 years old halfway across the world. Give him time. I really think we need to have some patience with these guys. They're too skilled not to cash in at some point. I strongly believe this is being built so that next year is our year to be a top team in the league. Whatever happens this year -- and so far so good -- is gravy.
Mijatovic wasn't singled out by perhaps the best scouting organization in soccer and chased by other big clubs because he has no ability. He certainly is going through a tough phase adjusting to MLS. The way to get the most out of him is to give him experience. He isn't going to blossom sitting on the bench. That doesn't mean we need to start him, but we do need to play him.
i don't think anybody is saying don't play him. but at a time when we need some results, do we want to rely a kid who needs to get used to the league? or a guy who making the most of his minutes? Bring him on as a sub for 30 mins or, as I said before, we have a II squad and they can stick Jovan there to get match fitness, sharpness, and get used to league. The II squad also plays a very similar style to us, which will allow him to acclimate in that manner too. The couple matches I watched him play with the II though, he didn't seem to play like a guy who wants to dominate. He was pretty stagnant and didn't run his ass off. Sure, that part of his game can and should improve. Our style of play has no place for a #9 who doesn't want to run and start the press.
All these arguments, on both sides, have some validity, and for good reason: we don't really know what we have yet. It's too early in the development curve for the young guys. Five months just isn't enough time to get a truly accurate read on their potential level. All we can know right now is where their level is at the moment, based on limited information.
Which brings up a point. The data are information, not The Facts. They can tell us what happened, but just as important are the when and why, not to mention the how. They can only tell us the past, something about the present and very little about the future. They must be viewed in context, with the understanding no one can predict what will happen; we can only project based on current information.
Those projections don't look great for Jovan right now. He hasn't scored. Extend the trend line and it's, well, flat.
But the only way we can truly find out if he can score consistently is to give him the chance to do it. And I can say from personal experience, being a muscular athlete myself, dudes with a package need run. They need to sweat and battle and get into the fight. Every game I ever played in every sport (and I played them all), I always started slow. By the last quarter to the third of every game, I was stronger than anyone around.
We won late a lot.
Now, I understand the impulse to send Jovan to the Deuce to get his minutes. From a certain perspective, it makes sense. But personally, I don't think he's going to grow fast enough being the big kid with the little kids. (No offense to our Deuce, and I'm making a bit of a joke, but sometimes it looks perilously close to a high school team out there, at least in terms of the age profile.) He needs to be the little kid fighting for a place with the big kids.
And we have to do something. I had us with four points in my book over the last three games -- a draw with the Crew, a loss in LA and a win in Nashville. We got none. I had us down for five or six goals. We got two, and now our GD is lagging in a conference where we are definitely going to be in a dogfight for favorable seeding, if not for a playoff spot at all.
By no means is it a disaster. Every team has ups and downs in MLS. It's a parity league. But to me, that means the margins are even finer than in other circuits.
I get the argument which holds those fine margins mean going with whomever has the hot hand on the stat sheet. I just happen to believe it's more important to win the war than any particular battle. I take the long view. July is going to be a bitch, and so is September, when things are going to get really serious. Then, if we're good enough, we're going to be in a heck of a playoff scrum. We need to push the young guys into the deep end of the pool now if we're going to be all we can be by then.
If I'm in Nick's shoes, I put my hands on Jovan's shoulders and tell him, "Okay, here's your chance. You're ready. Don't worry, don't think about anything but giving it your best and go get 'em. I believe in you. Here's your chance to be a Lion tamer." (Yuk yuk yuk.)
Speaking of Orlando, I have some thoughts about that, but I'll save them for the match thread. In the meantime, I love the conversation. Everyone loves our team, and everyone has some great points. Being a member of this Forum is one of my great pleasures, so let me just say thank you.
Which brings up a point. The data are information, not The Facts. They can tell us what happened, but just as important are the when and why, not to mention the how. They can only tell us the past, something about the present and very little about the future. They must be viewed in context, with the understanding no one can predict what will happen; we can only project based on current information.
Those projections don't look great for Jovan right now. He hasn't scored. Extend the trend line and it's, well, flat.
But the only way we can truly find out if he can score consistently is to give him the chance to do it. And I can say from personal experience, being a muscular athlete myself, dudes with a package need run. They need to sweat and battle and get into the fight. Every game I ever played in every sport (and I played them all), I always started slow. By the last quarter to the third of every game, I was stronger than anyone around.
We won late a lot.
Now, I understand the impulse to send Jovan to the Deuce to get his minutes. From a certain perspective, it makes sense. But personally, I don't think he's going to grow fast enough being the big kid with the little kids. (No offense to our Deuce, and I'm making a bit of a joke, but sometimes it looks perilously close to a high school team out there, at least in terms of the age profile.) He needs to be the little kid fighting for a place with the big kids.
And we have to do something. I had us with four points in my book over the last three games -- a draw with the Crew, a loss in LA and a win in Nashville. We got none. I had us down for five or six goals. We got two, and now our GD is lagging in a conference where we are definitely going to be in a dogfight for favorable seeding, if not for a playoff spot at all.
By no means is it a disaster. Every team has ups and downs in MLS. It's a parity league. But to me, that means the margins are even finer than in other circuits.
I get the argument which holds those fine margins mean going with whomever has the hot hand on the stat sheet. I just happen to believe it's more important to win the war than any particular battle. I take the long view. July is going to be a bitch, and so is September, when things are going to get really serious. Then, if we're good enough, we're going to be in a heck of a playoff scrum. We need to push the young guys into the deep end of the pool now if we're going to be all we can be by then.
If I'm in Nick's shoes, I put my hands on Jovan's shoulders and tell him, "Okay, here's your chance. You're ready. Don't worry, don't think about anything but giving it your best and go get 'em. I believe in you. Here's your chance to be a Lion tamer." (Yuk yuk yuk.)
Speaking of Orlando, I have some thoughts about that, but I'll save them for the match thread. In the meantime, I love the conversation. Everyone loves our team, and everyone has some great points. Being a member of this Forum is one of my great pleasures, so let me just say thank you.
All these arguments, on both sides, have some validity, and for good reason: we don't really know what we have yet. It's too early in the development curve for the young guys. Five months just isn't enough time to get a truly accurate read on their potential level. All we can know right now is where their level is at the moment, based on limited information.
Which brings up a point. The data are information, not The Facts. They can tell us what happened, but just as important are the when and why, not to mention the how. They can only tell us the past, something about the present and very little about the future. They must be viewed in context, with the understanding no one can predict what will happen; we can only project based on current information.
Those projections don't look great for Jovan right now. He hasn't scored. Extend the trend line and it's, well, flat.
But the only way we can truly find out if he can score consistently is to give him the chance to do it. And I can say from personal experience, being a muscular athlete myself, dudes with a package need run. They need to sweat and battle and get into the fight. Every game I ever played in every sport (and I played them all), I always started slow. By the last quarter to the third of every game, I was stronger than anyone around.
We won late a lot.
Now, I understand the impulse to send Jovan to the Deuce to get his minutes. From a certain perspective, it makes sense. But personally, I don't think he's going to grow fast enough being the big kid with the little kids. (No offense to our Deuce, and I'm making a bit of a joke, but sometimes it looks perilously close to a high school team out there, at least in terms of the age profile.) He needs to be the little kid fighting for a place with the big kids.
And we have to do something. I had us with four points in my book over the last three games -- a draw with the Crew, a loss in LA and a win in Nashville. We got none. I had us down for five or six goals. We got two, and now our GD is lagging in a conference where we are definitely going to be in a dogfight for favorable seeding, if not for a playoff spot at all.
By no means is it a disaster. Every team has ups and downs in MLS. It's a parity league. But to me, that means the margins are even finer than in other circuits.
I get the argument which holds those fine margins mean going with whomever has the hot hand on the stat sheet. I just happen to believe it's more important to win the war than any particular battle. I take the long view. July is going to be a bitch, and so is September, when things are going to get really serious. Then, if we're good enough, we're going to be in a heck of a playoff scrum. We need to push the young guys into the deep end of the pool now if we're going to be all we can be by then.
If I'm in Nick's shoes, I put my hands on Jovan's shoulders and tell him, "Okay, here's your chance. You're ready. Don't worry, don't think about anything but giving it your best and go get 'em. I believe in you. Here's your chance to be a Lion tamer." (Yuk yuk yuk.)
Speaking of Orlando, I have some thoughts about that, but I'll save them for the match thread. In the meantime, I love the conversation. Everyone loves our team, and everyone has some great points. Being a member of this Forum is one of my great pleasures, so let me just say thank you.
If he plays with the "little kids" and still can't dominate, what makes you think he's gonna grow faster against bigger, faster, and better players?
There is the argument of improving by playing "up" which happens often in soccer for youth programs but those are kids who have shown they have skills beyond their level. Jovan hasn't shown anything. If he's crushing with the deuce then by all means he needs more playing time.
Anyway, it's up to Nick at the end of the day. Jovan needs to show he deserves his minutes in training.. things we don't get to see.
He's played all year like he never wanted to be here. Kid needs to learn that if you want to move up, you have a prove a reason why you should.
I blame him because he seems to lack effort. I blame the club for not scouting his mindset sufficiently and not fixing him.
Given his age and attitude, it could take him a while and a few different teams to sort it out. Hopefully, he keeps posting things and pushes his way out so he can try to figure it out somewhere else.
NGL, I had a bet with my son that he wasn't going to return to the team after the international break ended.
I saw a former NYCFC STH this weekend who got me into to the team in 2018. I did not renew my STH membership this year after begrudgingly renewed last year. He asked why some fans are losing interest.
Add this Jovan moment to the list. I was critical in 2022 when Taty left, Alfredo was hurt and the team stood pat or at least that is how I remember but anyway I’ll stop going down that road…
Point is, post 2021 IMHO, I have not felt like there has been a priority to field the most competitive team possible. Spending 8.6 million transfer bucks for Jovan, on top of the Bakrar, Fernandez, Ojeda investments shows a different priority. (Quick aside, Lee is incredibly fortunate O’Toole and Jones are as good as they are)
So that said, hopefully the team shocks the league and wins the Cup this year.
Add this Jovan moment to the list. I was critical in 2022 when Taty left, Alfredo was hurt and the team stood pat or at least that is how I remember but anyway I’ll stop going down that road…
Point is, post 2021 IMHO, I have not felt like there has been a priority to field the most competitive team possible. Spending 8.6 million transfer bucks for Jovan, on top of the Bakrar, Fernandez, Ojeda investments shows a different priority. (Quick aside, Lee is incredibly fortunate O’Toole and Jones are as good as they are)
So that said, hopefully the team shocks the league and wins the Cup this year.
does he track back and pressure defenders off the ball? i feel like he is is a poacher type striker and not one to try and create chances or make a run behind defenders like martinez. I get his frustration to have bakrar being selected before him, however it seems bakrar runs a lot and tries to help pressure opponents and i guess to cushing that means something in the game plan even though he doesnt score.
Jovan needs to do more of this, but if its not his game then honestly its not his fault, its FO/cushing for picking someone that was not going to fit in the style that the team wants to play and just buying him just just for the sake of buying a prospect.
Jovan needs to do more of this, but if its not his game then honestly its not his fault, its FO/cushing for picking someone that was not going to fit in the style that the team wants to play and just buying him just just for the sake of buying a prospect.
crazy thing is it doesn't fit the style of ANY city team or any team for that matter. It worked for him at red star because they were so incredibly dominant, they essentially camped out in the opponent's box for most of the game. these days, teams either press high or they sit and counter. both require forwards who are willing to put in the effort and run their asses off.
it's crazy to me that lee/cushing would pick him or that CFG would have picked him to develop. maybe they thought they could change his work rate? I think if he were under pep at man city, he may be motivated to work harder but if i recall, there were rumors he didn't want to come to NY at all before his transfer.
I feel bad for the kid. The situation is shitty for both sides but he's wasting away here if he's not going to adapt to the playing style and do the things nick wants him to do. Sure, as a young kid, it will take time to break into the first team sometimes and it's probably a shock for him coming from a team where he played and scored a lot. but tbh, i think he's riding the bench no matter where he goes if he doesn't change the way he approaches the game and doesn't put in the effort... unless of course he's headed back to red star or some other highly dominant team like that.
Yes I think this probably right -- this is not an NYCFC problem, it's a Jovan problem. He needs to work harder on the field if he wants to get anywhere close to his aspirations. He's played here all year like he never wanted to be here. Right down to mysteriously leaving for weeks after he had just arrived.
I think he's still young and immature and he needs to learn the kind of work ethic necessary to succeed at this level. There's still time for him to learn and improve, but he needs to figure it out.
You can't do a full end-of-season press tour with the entire FO writing letters and doing interviews saying last season was unacceptable and they are going to bring in players to turn things around and then make your biggest transfer of the summer a guy you know is a project. I agree they set him up in a terrible situation. I would hope they scouted him well enough to know he needed to change his style and it would take time but if they did they shouldn't have been introducing him with stuff like this:
The whole offseason was just a complete mismanagement of balance. You spend $8M on a young project you are operating with a strong roster, not a roster that just had the second-worst season in the club's history. It was also completely wreckless that they spent all of the money on young prospects and didn't hedge at all by spending on 1-2 more proven players to cover the immediate gaps while the young guys developed.
To be fair, they did bring in veterans Andres Perea and Hannes Wolf. I understand this concern, but I think too much is being made of it. They did bring in veterans, they just didn't splash the cash on them. Hannes was a TAM player and Perea was a signing, I believe, under the salary cap.
