Officiating in City vs. Chicago

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Would appreciate getting people's thoughts on some of the more controversial calls yesterday. I don't think the referee had a good day at all, but mostly the calls seemed to even out. I mention five that I'd love to get people's thoughts on, but would enjoy hearing about others.

I don't intend for this to be a bitch fest, but a balanced discussion of the rules and how to apply them.

1. Offsides on First Chicago Goal. Cocis (the goalscorer) certainly wasn't offside. Gilberto certainly was. Gilberto didn't cut off his run and continued into the box, which caused both Saunders and Brillant to avoid directly challenging Cocis. I don't think that's enough under the rule to constitute "interfering with play" - but perhaps it should be.

2. First Potential Penalty. This is the one where the NYCFC player (Brillant?) pulls the jersey of the Chicago player in the box(Accam). I thought this was a clear penalty as it kept Accam from keeping up with the ball, which rolled up to Saunders - might even have been a red card. We dodged a bullet.

3. Second Potential Penalty. This is the one where an NYCFC defender made contact with a Chicago player on the breakaway, with the Chicago player going down in the box. I thought this was a foul, but not a penalty, as the contact began outside the box.

4. Taylor Goal. I thought this should have been a penalty on Chicago. The ball hit off two Chicago players' hands, neither of which was anywhere near their bodies. Fortunately, Taylor's quick thinking rendered the question moot.

5. Shelton Penalty. This should not have been a penalty, although it's hard to argue after we got the benefit of the call mentioned in #2 above. Shelton had his arm near his body and was bringing it behind his back when struck by the ball. The ball actually seems to glance first off his side. No intent, and he wasn't making himself big. No penalty.
 
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He was pretty bad both ways, but as you said it pretty well balanced out.

There was also one particular play where Villa got chopped down from behind that led to a decent scoring chance in the second half for the Fire. Damn, not only was I expecting a whistle, I waiting waiting for a Yellow to be flashed. Now that I think about it, it may have happened a second time too.
 
mostly the calls seemed to even out
I disagree because ...

The Hernandez shirt tug/pull down in the box should have been a penalty and red card. At an early stage of the game (I think before our first goal) we would have gone down a man and likely a goal down. That puts us at 90% likely that we give up all 3 points. A makeup call on Shelton later to get a 2 goal deficit down to 1 doesn't even things out. Were it the other way around we would be howling.

I agree because ...

Last year we felt the balance of calls went against us. At one game into the season we can feel fortunate. This too will probably balance out, but I will gladly consider it karma against the calls that went against us last year.

EDIT: Thought it was Hernandez, not Brillant. Other comments seem to suggest that was the case.
 
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1. Not so clear to me that Gilberto was offsides, but if he was I think he was close enough to the affect play that it should have been called.
2.My memory of this is the same as yours.
3. Same again. A foul, and clearly outside the box.
4.I saw this differently. Maybe I need my eyes checked, I thought it hit off the head of one Chicago player, then hit a Chicago arm, then Taylor's arm. Was surprised nobody on Chicago made it an issue, which makes me doubt my view of it. But I've looked again and again and see the same thing.
5.Agree. No penalty.
 
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I don't remember as clearly (thank you, beer haze) but I do recall being mad about some pretty poor refereeing in the game. The penalty was definitely soft and some of the free kicks Chicago got for challenges that were barely a 50/50 were maddening. Seemed he wanted to give them a kick any time our players touched them, but if they knocked us down in a 50/50 it was play on.

I'm normally in the "every call against us is a bad call and all our fouls should go unpunished" camp, but even people around me yesterday were agreeing there seemed like some pretty biased officiating.
 
The referee was terrible, absolutely terrible. He had a really bad day. Bad. Poor. He really should stop refereeing because he's so bad. I don't think I've ever seen a worse referee in a soccer match. Players were on the ground and he kept the game going. What's wrong with this guy? He's terrible. Terrible. Bad job. Bad.
 
1) I thought it was okay because it was clear that Cocis was the player really making the run, although If it was called offside I think it would also be justified.
2)I think it was Hernandez who made the tackle, was a clear penalty from what I saw.
3) Didn't really see this one all that well so I can't really decide, but again if it was called as a foul I am sure there wouldn't have been much opposition to the call.
4) I never even thought of it being a penalty since Taylor was able to score, but if he didn't get the ball at his feet after the pinball off the 2 players there probably would have been a bigger shout for Pen.
5) No shot that was a pen
 
Would appreciate getting people's thoughts on some of the more controversial calls yesterday. I don't think the referee had a good day at all, but mostly the calls seemed to even out. I mention five that I'd love to get people's thoughts on, but would enjoy hearing about others.

I don't intend for this to be a bitch fest, but a balanced discussion of the rules and how to apply them.

1. Offsides on First Chicago Goal. Cocis (the goalscorer) certainly wasn't offside. Gilberto certainly was. Gilberto didn't cut off his run and continued into the box, which caused both Saunders and Brillant to avoid directly challenging Cocis. I don't think that's enough under the rule to constitute "interfering with play" - but perhaps it should be.

2. First Potential Penalty. This is the one where the NYCFC player (Brillant?) pulls the jersey of the Chicago player in the box(Accam). I thought this was a clear penalty as it kept Accam from keeping up with the ball, which rolled up to Saunders - might even have been a red card. We dodged a bullet.

3. Second Potential Penalty. This is the one where an NYCFC defender made contact with a Chicago player on the breakaway, with the Chicago player going down in the box. I thought this was a foul, but not a penalty, as the contact began outside the box.

4. Taylor Goal. I thought this should have been a penalty on Chicago. The ball hit off two Chicago players' hands, neither of which was anywhere near their bodies. Fortunately, Taylor's quick thinking rendered the question moot.

5. Shelton Penalty. This should not have been a penalty, although it's hard to argue after we got the benefit of the call mentioned in #2 above. Shelton had his arm near his body and was bringing it behind his back when struck by the ball. The ball actually seems to glance first off his side. No intent, and he wasn't making himself big. No penalty.
1. No fair play

2. hernandez and should have been straight red & PK. Worst bit of defending you'll ever see. I thought the game was spoiled at that point. Shocked to not see it given.

3. looked a foul, don't know where it was in relation to the box, if inside, PK

4. no PK, on the guy whos eye was cut, he was falling backwards trying to clear (no worse then sheltons touch, easily could be waved off). Didn't see the other handball on chicago; thought there was one on taylor to be honest also unintentional completely, goal stands.

5. make up call for blowing the game for not giving the straight red, although Shelton's hand does move oddly that could give the illusion that he reached for it
 
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100% not offsides. Gilberto clearly wasn't pursuing the ball until Cocis entered the play. By that time our team had already quit on the play. Bottom line, play the damn whistle. If you're too tired to chase the ball, call for a sub.

Look again via the replay. Gilberto keeps his run going. This keeps Saunders rooted to his spot rather than rushing out to charge Cocis. Brillant also recovers on defense, but instead of attacking the guy with the ball, he plays a potential pass to Gilberto. Still not sure it is offsides, but a case can be made.
 
4. no PK, on the guy whos eye was cut, he was falling backwards trying to clear (no worse then sheltons touch, easily could be waved off). Didn't see the other handball on chicago; thought there was one on taylor to be honest also unintentional completely, goal stands.

The ball glanced off the head of one Chicago player, off the outstretched arm of a 2nd, and then back off the outstretched arm of the first guy again.

Then down to Taylor's feet, and then into the goal with Taylor still looking a little shocked by his good fortune.

Note also the nice chip by Mix to get it all started. Pretty sweet.
 
Look again via the replay. Gilberto keeps his run going. This keeps Saunders rooted to his spot rather than rushing out to charge Cocis. Brillant also recovers on defense, but instead of attacking the guy with the ball, he plays a potential pass to Gilberto. Still not sure it is offsides, but a case can be made.
This is one of those where i'd rather let the play stand then hammer down those calls. Cocis made a stellar run, and just cause gilberto moves it kills the play. I think he scores that with or without gilberto running with him. Hell if anything he sucked brillant away from running though saunders. could have saved saunders season.

If he passes it to gilberto then its over. Not enough interference for me to want the call. I'd want that played the same every time for us or against us.
 
The ball glanced off the head of one Chicago player, off the outstretched arm of a 2nd, and then back off the outstretched arm of the first guy again.

Then down to Taylor's feet, and then into the goal with Taylor still looking a little shocked by his good fortune.

Note also the nice chip by Mix to get it all started. Pretty sweet.
ok that clears up the series of events for me, still no PK. the guy falling (not the cut eye as i said earlier) clears it, but handballs it by mistake keeping it in the box. Unintentional event, but also beneficial to us. Then the ball hits the cut eye guy, he knew nothing about it at all. no PK for that either. And I guess taylor never does touch it, coincidental movement of the ball as its handled the second time overlapped with tylors hand movement.
 
Would appreciate getting people's thoughts on some of the more controversial calls yesterday. I don't think the referee had a good day at all, but mostly the calls seemed to even out. I mention five that I'd love to get people's thoughts on, but would enjoy hearing about others.

I don't intend for this to be a bitch fest, but a balanced discussion of the rules and how to apply them.

1. Offsides on First Chicago Goal. Cocis (the goalscorer) certainly wasn't offside. Gilberto certainly was. Gilberto didn't cut off his run and continued into the box, which caused both Saunders and Brillant to avoid directly challenging Cocis. I don't think that's enough under the rule to constitute "interfering with play" - but perhaps it should be.
The ref was playing passive-offsides here, BUT he incorrectly interpreted the application of it. Cocis makes an absolutely beautiful run that isn't offside right next to Gilberto who is offsides. Gilberto starts his run at the 6 second mark and is clearly offsides - that should have been when the whistle blew. Gilberto actually starts making a run to receive the pass and then stops when he realizes he's already offside; he was in perfect position to play the ball, which is what the defender thought was happening, until he held back at the end.
 
I thought the ref had a pretty bad day. The interesting part on this is my brother is a Fire fan and was sitting in Section 8, and we were texting throughout the game. I will say that my brother is a very reasonable person, and really knows his soccer. This I guess is a bit of a reminder when we are at our home games and see things from an officiating standpoint, that the monitors quite often show a different story.

Definitely should have been a penalty on Hernandez.

On the Taylor goal, should have been a hand ball called. I know TT ended up scoring, but it didn't look like the ref was going to award a call there. My brother had texted me on that one saying that most of Section 8 had thought they saw TT play it with his hand, whereas he thought it was a Fire defender that played it with the hand.

There was a play in the second half where Accam (I believe) had a run into the box and ended up tripping over the ball. My brother subsequently texted me "good thing you guys are paying off the ref". I told him he would want to see the replay on that as Accam had tripped on the ball.

There was another play later in the game where Igboananike (I believe) was taken down as he was going into the box and no call was made. I thought that that should have been a foul, but just outside the box as that is where the contact was initiated.

I also thought that the Fire got away with quite a few very physical plays that I thought were fouls. None of them were in particularly dangerous areas or retracted from specific opportunities, but it was frustrating.
 
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