We're soft because of suburbs...

[NYCFC_Dan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/745745068745601025

I want to punch this guy. Wow.
I disagree because growing up in a lower income area everyone had a choice come middle school. Our schools all had Soccer, football and basketball along with track. So as a kid I'd play football/soccer on the street and basketball on the driveway then in middle school decided to take up basketball for the school. Every other lower income kid had the same choice. This progressed into high school with addition of baseball and other sports. On the subject of summer leagues, yes, those are paid for. But, I went from driveway to school gym while other kids went from AAU to gym. Would of been the same if I went from street to football field. Kids played pee-wee and so on then for their school with much more experience. It's the same in every single sport. Soccer isn't an exception. In fact it's probably the CHEAPEST sport in this regard as equipment and expenses are way less.

The best basketball/football/etc players all played some kind of competitive paid for leagues aside from their Highschool. I can just about guarantee that. Even the lower income ones. To say that soccer is a middle class sport and that's why we suck because we're 'soft' is ridiculous. And to think we'd be better because tough kids from projects start playing it is a stretch as well. a larger talent pool would certainly benefit us. Would benefit any sport.

 

[Rimil]

I want to punch this guy. Wow.

that's why he says stuff like that. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him, just react and bring in more eyeballs so he hits his metrics and the advertisers are happy.

 

[Goodfella]

there is an economic factor at play though. Youth soccer and access to good development costs money. Probably more that other sports. Travel hockey is up there as well.

 

[mgarbowski]

I'm also not a fan of his theory that players who grew up poor have a drive that middle class and upper class kids lack. Spend any time with the most successful people in any field and it's clear that (with very very few exceptions) these people are driven. I'm talking all fields: government, business, finance, tech, engineering, education, sales, whatever. I'm not talking about reasonably successful, nice career, solid bank account people. I mean the top of the top, best of the best. It is possible to work your ass off and not be successful at that level, but it almost impossible to become that successful without a singular focus and effort directed towards that success. And lots and lots of them grew up middle class or better. Even people who run fraud schemes like Madoff worked real damn hard at it.
To the extent he has a point there I think he is misreading the situation. The reason there appear to be a disproportionate number of successful athletes who grew up poor is that many poor kids don't have or don't see the opportunity to pursue success outside of sports and entertainment, so that's where they focus their drive. It doesn't mean they have some special inspiration that others lack because they did not grow up in hardship.
A lot of our best USMNT players right now are service brats. Not even close to upper class, but not from the underclass either. But I bet they sure as hell learned discipline and drive from the example of their parents.

That said, expanding the talent pool for soccer in the US will obviously help, and part of that can mean youth programs targeted to people who cannot afford the costs of serious competitive play. It seems like serious youth sports today require ridiculous amounts of time and cash to participate at the level that can make you the best and ensure that your talent is found. I'm all for subsidizing that to attract and identify new great talent, and allow the not-quite-great to participate at appropriate levels.

 

[Ulrich]

I think the funniest comments are that our best athletes don't play soccer but rather play basketball and football. Sure some of those players are just freakish, but a lot of that is hand/eye, not foot/eye. Labron James could probably be an amazing keeper (if he can dive down), but that doesn't mean he can dribble worth a shit or trap a chest high ball with his foot. And to think Messi is 5'-6" and maybe 120lbs wet and he's the best player in the world.... You'd never find him on a basketball court or a football field, and yet nobody can compare save for the male model Ronaldo... And he wouldn't be found at those locations either.

 

[twsj91]

Can't stand when people who don't watch the game make comments about its future in America. Theyre basing their knowledge on literally nothing.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Can't stand when people who don't watch the game make comments about its future in America. Theyre basing their knowledge on literally nothing.

His comment about Dempsey being from a poor family and that's why he's our best player is ridiculous. The guy is clueless.

 

[Gene]

American soccer players are sawft?

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

Just the question is ridiculous on the screen: Why can't US Soccer beat the best teams in the world consistently?

 

[Fantazma]

https://twitter.com/x/status/745745068745601025

I want to punch this guy. Wow.
I disagree because growing up in a lower income area everyone had a choice come middle school.
The best basketball/football/etc players all played some kind of competitive paid for leagues aside from their Highschool. I can just about guarantee that. Even the lower income ones. To say that soccer is a middle class sport and that's why we suck because we're 'soft' is ridiculous. And to think we'd be better because tough kids from projects start playing it is a stretch as well. a larger talent pool would certainly benefit us. Would benefit any sport.

speak for yourself then...there was no soccer in my school growing up....my family had to pay thoudands if i wanted to play. and this was in inner city schools in new york....all there was is basketball, baseball. and while there were soccer teams in other JHS and HS its not so easy going to just transfer to another school just to play. plus some of those schools were not the greatest academic schools in the city, so the risk was not worth it.

i do want nycfc to look inside the inner city schools and local mom and pop small leagues that play in flushing for example and maybe pick up a couple of kids for a trial. and who knows maybe they can become fantastic nycfc players and end up in national team.

while it is the "cheapest" it certainly not the best funded by schools etc and that is why its expensive to play it because you have to go out of your way and pay like 15K per year for a kid to play and travel to tournaments etc. Plus all the scouts go to those "prestegious" tournaments that is mostly pay to play teams. A good bunch of players are being left out. if feels like its a system in place where college coaches only go get the players of those they are buddies with in a youth system

and their last point of the media not getting on their case? i agree 10000% granted, you have useless commentators like lalas and wahl, wynalda. but main stream media can get on their case etc and start criticizing then yes it can cause people at USSF and MLS to improve.

to me though youth development is still the greatest challenge and the country is not there yet.

at the end of the day i find it interesting that i somewhat agree with asshats like cowherd and whitlock

EDIT: speaking of "soft" i put Shelton in this category, i feel im right week in and week out sadly.

 

[Fantazma]

His comment about Dempsey being from a poor family and that's why he's our best player is ridiculous. The guy is clueless.

and here i thought he was a true G

 

[Keith Putnam]

Reading the following article would be a great jumping-off point for this discussion:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

 

[Goodfella]

Reading the following article would be a great jumping-off point for this discussion:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

great piece, read it a while back.

 

[SoupInNYC]

while it is the "cheapest" it certainly not the best funded by schools etc and that is why its expensive to play it because you have to go out of your way and pay like 15K per year for a kid to play and travel to tournaments etc. Plus all the scouts go to those "prestegious" tournaments that is mostly pay to play teams. A good bunch of players are being left out. if feels like its a system in place where college coaches only go get the players of those they are buddies with in a youth system

This sounds word for work like you're talking about college basketball. Guys who want to go to big programs have to play AAU ball in order to showcase their skills against more talented players. The AAU circuit is as fishy as it gets in terms of money changing hands, free equipment, etc. AAU coaches get plugged in with college ball programs.

Additionally, I don't know a whole ton about the cost of travel soccer, but I just googled "Cost of AAU basketball". The top result was : "AAU basketball does not come cheap. Depending on the team, families can expect to pay $400 to $4,000per summer to play, including uniforms. That does not include transportation to and from practice or games, hotel rooms, food, gas or admission for those not playing."

I then googled "Cost of Travel Soccer", the top result was: " A typical team has a yearly (November thru July) total per player cost of about $500-700."

Now obviously the "analysis" I did above is far from an in-depth look and actual analysis between the costs of the two, but my main point is that guys that want to get into basketball and go to a good program and get to the NBA have to shell out the money as well.

 

[northernburbs]

This sounds word for work like you're talking about college basketball. Guys who want to go to big programs have to play AAU ball in order to showcase their skills against more talented players. The AAU circuit is as fishy as it gets in terms of money changing hands, free equipment, etc. AAU coaches get plugged in with college ball programs.

Additionally, I don't know a whole ton about the cost of travel soccer, but I just googled "Cost of AAU basketball". The top result was : "AAU basketball does not come cheap. Depending on the team, families can expect to pay $400 to $4,000per summer to play, including uniforms. That does not include transportation to and from practice or games, hotel rooms, food, gas or admission for those not playing."

I then googled "Cost of Travel Soccer", the top result was: " A typical team has a yearly (November thru July) total per player cost of about $500-700."

Now obviously the "analysis" I did above is far from an in-depth look and actual analysis between the costs of the two, but my main point is that guys that want to get into basketball and go to a good program and get to the NBA have to shell out the money as well.

I print clothing for a living and deal with a bunch of people involved in youth sports.
All the teams prey on rich people who think their kid has a shot at the pro's.
The best players on the team are usually on a scholarship if they can't afford it.
It would be rare that a kid with real talent could not get onto a top level travel team.

 

[QuigrNYCFC]

Invest in youth. Teach them primarily technical skills at a young age, and put less of a focus on running, weight lifting etc.

Pay the best US coaches handsomely to teach the youngest players instead of the oldest, invest in accrediting and certifying more coaches in the US and in 20 years we will win a world cup.

The major obstacle is the old guard of US soccer infrastructure. They need to tear it down and build it up again.

 

[BxLio91]

I played on my local club's youth team in my home country. When I moved to NYC at 12 with my mother, there's no way she could afford to pay for me to be on a team so I would only play in the summer at the park. At year and a half later I tried out for my HS team and got on.

The team was pretty bad due to us being a small school but our best players were players whose parents could afford to pay for a team and it showed because they were able to get more training, coaching and game time throughout the year as opposed to the 2 month fall season where a 3rd of the games would be cancelled for all sorts of reasons. During the very important development years I only played a game per week plus 2 practices for 2 months out of the entire year. The 1-2 players on teams improved while the rest of us stagnated.

One of my former teammates got a scholarship to play for BC. I turned to cigarettes and alcohol. Not to say I was going to play for a club in a top 5 league, but I never got the opportunity to reach whatever potential I had. And that's my related novel. I'm sure there's thousands of stories similar to mine with kids a lot more talented than me never getting a shot.

 

[FredMertz]

I went through the academy club process with Fred Jr. this year and I don't believe the problem is poor kids can't afford these teams, it's that they don't even know that these teams exist.

We live in a town with a significant Hispanic population and I've coached boys who are good enough to play for free for any of the local academies -- but their parents barely speak English and have no idea that places like FC Westchester or NY Soccer Club exist, and if they do know they exist, they have no idea that they have scholarships.

 

[northernburbs]

I went through the academy club process with Fred Jr. this year and I don't believe the problem is poor kids can't afford these teams, it's that they don't even know that these teams exist.

We live in a town with a significant Hispanic population and I've coached boys who are good enough to play for free for any of the local academies -- but their parents barely speak English and have no idea that places like FC Westchester or NY Soccer Club exist, and if they do know they exist, they have no idea that they have scholarships.

I work in Port Chester and have been doing work for the youth soccer programs for years. The town has a significant Latin American population and the parents who are immigrants have been running it for the last 20 years.
The main "problem" if it is one, is that the US has so many opportunities and options for kids to do stuff.
The best basketball players don't come from the rich suburbs, but from the cities where the kids fight for the ball.
win and you stay on - lose and wait 3 games.
Real talent tends to show itself as kids reach middle school.
When my kids were in 1st grade some parents asked if I was sending my kids to the local summer camp the HS coach ran. They said the coach liked to see the kids involved when they were young. I told them that at the varsity level he would play a kid who could win over a kid who attended his camp for 6 years. Winning keeps a coach his job.

 

[ldent42]

my elementary school had soccer during recess. we used a spray painted box on a wall on one side and a pair of garbage cans on the other for the goal. Soccer and basketball are pretty much mainstays of "disadvantaged urban youth" sport. It's right alongside Handball in my memory. American football, hockey, and baseball were the 'upper class' sports. This dude is just dumb.