New England Post Match

[roxfontaine]

I'm so angry. I don't know what to believe in with this team anymore.

Without Ring and Herrera at MINIMUM we are a mediocre team at best. The frustrating thing for me is that I know these players are capable of more but this system Vieira has in place stifles them and doesn't help them "express their talents" as he likes to say. This was another clear trap game and, of course, he walked us right into it. Just awful.

Strap in people. This ride could get really bumpy. Chicago is improving, Orlando is improving, Atlanta is improving... Playoff line gets more and more threatening when you are dropping points like this.

 

[mgarbowski]

Every team above the line in the East, plus New England, has a better home record than us.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

Overreaction time, were not making the playoffs.

Rational reaction time, Ben Sweat needs to stop starting and oh my god we need to be rid of Lopez and McNamara ASAP.

 

[Schwallacus]

Never thought I'd miss having Mata in our starting lineup so much...

Also, please never leave us Ring.

 

[Lasker]

Y'all should relax a bit imo.

Yes, that game sucked, and it was especially painful in that it c showed that many weakness we've known about for awhile are . . . very much still there.

But a little perspective: I think of "par" for an MLS team to be 1 PPG away and 2 PPG at home. That would leave you with 51 points and a playoff spot at the end of the year.

We played 6 games in May - 4 away, 2 at home - and got 8 points - exactly on "par". And this despite two double game weeks in the same month (Which should never be allowed to happen) and having several of our most important players out. If this is what a slump looks like for us, we're in good shape.

 

[Ulrich]

Overreaction time, were not making the playoffs.

Rational reaction time, Ben Sweat needs to stop starting and oh my god we need to be rid of Lopez and McNamara ASAP.

I'm responding to your post, but it's more to address the general attitude towards Ben Sweat. Not being a fan boy at all, because he's had some real issues defending, but let's look at the bigger picture, and it's that Sweat is simply one of our Developmental Squad guys that's been starting for nearly half the season. He literally makes the minimum salary in MLS and has been tasked with holding the fort in a system that requires massive amounts of offensive contribution from its outside backs while also playing sound defense. Mata has never been great at playing solid D because his tendency is to always bomb forward... and he's our starting LB making starters money. In fact, he's our *ONLY* outside back on the team that can be considered a starter per salary. At best, RJ's salary makes him a squad player and he's been benched by White who, like Sweat, is at the bottom of the salary structure, another Developmental Player ($4 less than Sweat). So while the club has gotten extremely lucky with the production of White, I'd say they have gotten a level of production from Sweat that is on par with what his salary should provide. Sweat should be the fill-in at LB when Mata is on international duty or needs a rest, but expecting lock-down results every game, when the MF is a total shambles, is unfairly critiquing the guy; it's the same as judging a kid 2 years out of law school that had to present to the Supreme Court because his boss is in the hospital with emergency surgery.

Really, the responsibility for our shitshow performances this year fall on the FO and PV for failing to stick the roster with quality backups, failure of giving new contracts/raises to guys not able to contribute, failure to manage in-game personnel decisions, and a failure to coach the team up on set pieces. For years the USMNT didn't have the talent to play offense, but they won games by playing solid defense and scoring on Set Pieces - it's not rocket science... games are totally won on dead-ball plays that are 50/50 which is a better percentage than attacking during the run of play.

Last thought..... next game I want Lopez to wear an orange jersey because he has the offensive responsibilities of a traffic cone. Everybody avoids him and detours around his spot on the field. When your CBs are more adept at bringing the ball forward, you've got serious problems to address.

 

[LionNYC]

We have 11 games left at home. We need to win at least 8 of them.

 

[Gotham Gator]

A few random observations.

• I said this 4 seconds before the last goal: "we are all out of shape" - the ball had pinged around back and forth and so many guys had run to close down one player after another that huge gaps opened up. New England put the ball in where we weren't. The chaos of that sequence did more damage than anything else.
• Bunkering at the point we did - or shortly after - was the right move. It is not a 100% move, but we have defended well late all season employing basically the same strategy.
• If there is a big issue this time, it isn't going 5 in the back with Fred, it is doing so with Mikey and TMac in midfield, who aren't as quick closing down defenders or as good at regaining possession.
• Gripe all you want about the defending, but we missed 2-3 sitters last night that would have put the game out of reach. Those hurt us more than anything else.
• Before the season, we all identified this stretch as being brutal. It should shock nobody that we are down a few points. Let's see how things play out the next few weeks as we get a lot of games at home.
• ETA: The above is especially true with all the guys that are missing. We went into a brutal stretch that would test our depth right at the time we lost our starting LB and 3 of our top 4 midfielders.
• Penso did a poor job. The penalty non-call was right in front of me; the defender stuck out his leg and Villa went down. I do think Villa went down a little easily, but to me that is still a penalty. Would like to see a replay to be sure. I also question the Yellow on Lopez at the end.

 

[100G and above]

For the first 30 min Maxi was basically playing center forward and Tommy was trying to run the central midfield. But Tommy sucks. Things got a lot better when Maxi dropped back a bit and started handling the ball and bossing the midfield. But we missed all our chances. I thought Mikey played pretty well. Chanot was a beast. Callens was decent. Ethan White is not an outside back. For me it was a fun match to watch. The result was disappointing but not surprising. We need an MVP chant for Villa. The supporter section was amazing. The rest of the crowd (not the right word) more or less sucks.

 

[Ulrich]

A few random observations.

• If there is a big issue this time, it isn't going 5 in the back with Fred, it is doing so with Mikey and TMac in midfield, who aren't as quick closing down defenders or as good at regaining possession.

TMac wasn't on the field when we bunkered. He came out for Camargo (with Jack moving centrally to a hybrid M/F). Brillant came in and took Jack out, so we were playing with only Maxi & Lopex in the MF. It could be argued that Wallace dropped to more of a RM at that point, but we were still only playing with two midfielders. The only way to go with 5 in the back under normal situations (not involving NYCFC) is to play minimum 3 MF in front and more likely 4 MF. Only one forward is needed because the key is holding the ball in the MF, but last night we were literally playing a 5-2-3 and giving up a ton of space every time we countered.

 

[Sabo]

I'm responding to your post, but it's more to address the general attitude towards Ben Sweat. Not being a fan boy at all, because he's had some real issues defending, but let's look at the bigger picture, and it's that Sweat is simply one of our Developmental Squad guys that's been starting for nearly half the season. He literally makes the minimum salary in MLS and has been tasked with holding the fort in a system that requires massive amounts of offensive contribution from its outside backs while also playing sound defense. Mata has never been great at playing solid D because his tendency is to always bomb forward... and he's our starting LB making starters money. In fact, he's our *ONLY* outside back on the team that can be considered a starter per salary. At best, RJ's salary makes him a squad player and he's been benched by White who, like Sweat, is at the bottom of the salary structure, another Developmental Player ($4 less than Sweat). So while the club has gotten extremely lucky with the production of White, I'd say they have gotten a level of production from Sweat that is on par with what his salary should provide. Sweat should be the fill-in at LB when Mata is on international duty or needs a rest, but expecting lock-down results every game, when the MF is a total shambles, is unfairly critiquing the guy; it's the same as judging a kid 2 years out of law school that had to present to the Supreme Court because his boss is in the hospital with emergency surgery.

Really, the responsibility for our shitshow performances this year fall on the FO and PV for failing to stick the roster with quality backups, failure of giving new contracts/raises to guys not able to contribute, failure to manage in-game personnel decisions, and a failure to coach the team up on set pieces. For years the USMNT didn't have the talent to play offense, but they won games by playing solid defense and scoring on Set Pieces - it's not rocket science... games are totally won on dead-ball plays that are 50/50 which is a better percentage than attacking during the run of play.

Last thought..... next game I want Lopez to wear an orange jersey because he has the offensive responsibilities of a traffic cone. Everybody avoids him and detours around his spot on the field. When your CBs are more adept at bringing the ball forward, you've got serious problems to address.

Because of where I was sitting and because LB was my position back in the 20th century I spent a lot of time watching Sweat closely. His 1 v 1 defending is very good but I think he has a fundamental problem -- he doesn't swivel his head to see where attackers are and adjust his position accordingly nearly enough. He probably should be seeing where attackers are twice as much as he does. Thankfully Agudelo is obviously not 100% and we didn't pay for it. He also seems to be trying to be an attacking hero and cheat up when he shouldn't. There was one point when we switched to 5 in back that he pushed up for no reason and let 2 Revs get in 15-20 yards behind him (he didn't know they were there because he doesn't look enough) and we were totally out of shape in back. As someone else has already pointed out, he also has a bad habit of not coming back into a defensive position quick enough after he attacks -- get back on D and then rest.

I have been talking all year about NYCFC as an elite team, but we may not have the depth to actually be an elite team this year.

Again, because of where I was sitting I could see how much space Jack had the first half, but he didn't get the service we needed. Rowe (who is only about 5'5) was cheating to the center of the field and allowing the Revs to have a more compact and effective defense. We really could have used Pirlo getting hitting Jack in that space to spread out the Revs defense and give us more gaps to work with.

 

[Ulrich]

Because of where I was sitting and because LB was my position back in the 20th century I spent a lot of time watching Sweat closely. His 1 v 1 defending is very good but I think he has a fundamental problem -- he doesn't swivel his head to see where attackers are and adjust his position accordingly nearly enough. He probably should be seeing where attackers are twice as much as he does. Thankfully Agudelo is obviously not 100% and we didn't pay for it. He also seems to be trying to be an attacking hero and cheat up when he shouldn't. There was one point when we switched to 5 in back that he pushed up for no reason and let 2 Revs get in 15-20 yards behind him (he didn't know they were there because he doesn't look enough) and we were totally out of shape in back. As someone else has already pointed out, he also has a bad habit of not coming back into a defensive position quick enough after he attacks -- get back on D and then rest.

I have been talking all year about NYCFC as an elite team, but we may not have the depth to actually be an elite team this year.

Again, because of where I was sitting I could see how much space Jack had the first half, but he didn't get the service we needed. Rowe (who is only about 5'5) was cheating to the center of the field and allowing the Revs to have a more compact and effective defense. We really could have used Pirlo getting hitting Jack in that space to spread out the Revs defense and give us more gaps to work with.

Sweat sees the players around him $65k of the time. There's a reason he's a developmental squad player and that's to develop and get better at being tactically aware, not to be expected to take on First 11 minutes and responsibility.

I saw the times you're talking about with him pushing up.... I do wonder how much of that is PV wanting him to push up (like Mata) to spread the defenders out? When there was space, it did give Callens ample opportunity to dribble forward.

 

[canchon]

Speaking of sitters, how about "Messi" Ben Sweat trying to chip the keeper?

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

How the hell is Mikey Lopez the only CDM back up on the roster for both Ring and Pirlo? We knew Herrera would be gone for long stretches of the season, and we knew Pirlo was 38. How is it possible this guy who is 24 and still goes by "Mikey" and wears pants 3 sizes too big was our only backup plan for 18 months now at CDM? The team does no even pass him the ball! Maxi was literally giving him positional instructions halfway through the game.

Tolleson and Joy were going on and on about how the tempo shifted once the ball got over midfield. Yeah, no shit, the defenders had to skip completely over midfield to get it to the front four, who are some of the best players in the league and should have absolutely demolished that shitty shitty franchise last night. Why couldn't they? We couldn't hold the ball because our midfielders fucking sucked. Whoever said McNamara's drop off is because of the league improving is wrong, he has regressed to just above Lopez level. His first touch is five yards away from himself, his passing was never that bad, and he can hit the ball cleanly on a shot. I don't know what happened to him , but he was not that bad last year.

Tactically, Vieira shit the bed again with his subs. I have no problem with Brillant and think he is good for a 3rd CB, the problem I have is the formation change. The first two subs moved us from a 433 to a 523. A 523, with a clearly out of his depth Lopez as one of the midfielders and 5'1" Maxi moralez as the other. You wonder why NE could move the ball around and pick their best crosser to plop in a great cross? Thats why. Why do you need 3 forwards at that point? Awuah, at the very least, should have come on for Wallace to keep it a 532, and he actually runs and plays defense.

Lopez literally is playing the wrong sport. When the ball comes near him he stands 10 feet off his man in some kind of bent forward basketball stance, like he is guarding against the guy going one on one. He does nothing NOTHING to stop a passing lane or pressure the ball. He sucks on offense. He sucks on defense. His fouls are not "bite" or "toughness" they are a clumsy guy falling into an athlete, and potentially hurting people. He is not fast, he should not be ahead of anyone on the depth chart. He should not be on the depth chart. When YOUR OWN TEAM will not give you the ball, you are beyond useless on the pitch and should not be there.

This draw pisses me off so much. thank god for this forum where I can vent. The construction of this team is insane. A great starting XI with almost NOTHING beyond that.

 

[SoupInNYC]

A few random observations.

• I said this 4 seconds before the last goal: "we are all out of shape" - the ball had pinged around back and forth and so many guys had run to close down one player after another that huge gaps opened up. New England put the ball in where we weren't. The chaos of that sequence did more damage than anything else.
• Bunkering at the point we did - or shortly after - was the right move. It is not a 100% move, but we have defended well late all season employing basically the same strategy.
• If there is a big issue this time, it isn't going 5 in the back with Fred, it is doing so with Mikey and TMac in midfield, who aren't as quick closing down defenders or as good at regaining possession.
• Gripe all you want about the defending, but we missed 2-3 sitters last night that would have put the game out of reach. Those hurt us more than anything else.
• Before the season, we all identified this stretch as being brutal. It should shock nobody that we are down a few points. Let's see how things play out the next few weeks as we get a lot of games at home.
• ETA: The above is especially true with all the guys that are missing. We went into a brutal stretch that would test our depth right at the time we lost our starting LB and 3 of our top 4 midfielders.
• Penso did a poor job. The penalty non-call was right in front of me; the defender stuck out his leg and Villa went down. I do think Villa went down a little easily, but to me that is still a penalty. Would like to see a replay to be sure. I also question the Yellow on Lopez at the end.

I get the bunkering down and bringing on Brillant....if its in the 88'......

I don't understand why that sub happened so damn early.

 

[LIexpat]

I'm watching the postgame coverage on YES and Ian Joy won't stop talking about the shit defending and he's absolutely right...

Ethan White's YES Interview: "We went to five in the back. We know they were going to pummel us in the box and Fred's good in the air. We just wanted to be safe."

Fred is good in the air? HOLY FUCK NO.

Which was dumb as hell , this game was setup for ' attack is the best form of defence' revs couldnt handle us going forward, so making the sub just made it really easy for them

 

[LIexpat]

Also not sure if it was jut me not paying attention but was the stadium clock off or did the ref blow up for half time about 15 seconds too early

 

[Ulrich]

Also not sure if it was jut me not paying attention but was the stadium clock off or did the ref blow up for half time about 15 seconds too early

The ref was a dipshit and blew the whistle early by 3-5 secs first half and 15secs of extra time at the end.

 

[The Toe]

I get the bunkering down and bringing on Brillant....if its in the 88'......

I don't understand why that sub happened so damn early.

I do think that Vieira is trying to save Jack's legs for 90 on Saturday. He does a lot of running in his role, so I understand it.

 

[Sabo]

This game convinced me we should sign Sands as a backup DM. I know it was just preseason, but that Emelec team was not preseason and was playing with meaning. Sands fits our style of play better than Lopez and his ball control and linkup play would have been an improvement over what we saw last night. Some teams have Mids who might be crushing Sands physically, but NE isn't one of them. Sands can help us win games in 2017.