Was it a deflection? If so then it doesn't nullify. Has to be a deliberate defensive play. On a phone so it's hard to find the appropriate text rn.
DC - Postmatch
- Thread starter LionNYC
- Start date
Doing this from memory, but the ball was hit towards the net, deflected/saved out in the direction of the top of the box but before it could go more than a few feet, it ricocheted off Callens and back to the DC player. Then he put it in the net. The camera angle was from midfield with dC player on left side and Callens on right side - ball went from Johnson(?) towards Callens and then towards DC player in a bam-bam sequence.
I should really get to a place where I can watch this before going much further but I think that from what you're saying, it's a very fortunate but correct offside call if the DC player is offside when the other DC plays it. Neither deflections nor saves count.
Either way your broader point stands IMO - we were lucky not to be 3-0.
I have to dispute you on the specifics, but I agree with your larger point. Asad was in an offside position when his teammate struck the ball (which I think you agree with so far) but then made it a violation when he immediately played it after it "rebounded or [had] been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar, match official or an opponent."
http://nycfcforums.com/index.php?threads/mls-week-29-2017.5839/page-2#post-218218
The ping, deflection, rebound -- whatever you call it - doesn't negate offsides.
But, I wholly stand with you in thinking we were steamrolled early and then DC eased off.
Here are all of DC's defensive actions in the first 25 minutes when they scored the first 2 goals.
And here are the final 65 minutes:
I count 15 defensive actions in the NYC half of the field in the first 25 minutes, and only 10 in the final 65 minutes (giving both periods credit for one borderline event). They pressured us early. We caved. We let them score twice in 25 minutes, then they relaxed and absorbed pressure and let us have possession. DC only won 7 of 18 5-minute possession intervals, but they won the first 4. And though I agree the handball PK was a bad call, it happened and DC relaxed even more. I cannot assume we score even that one goal if DC is protecting at 2-0 instead of 3-0. This is a carbon copy of multiple games during this bad run.
And I don't credit DC's form for this either. They don't score early and often. Even when they beat Montreal 5-0 they scored only once in the first half. I went back 2 months and this is the only time they scored twice in the first 30 minutes.
Yangel looked good. I don't see anything else to take solace in from this game.
Nah, Asad was clearly offsides when the FK was taken, and was the first to play the ball after Johnson's save
My understanding is that a deflection, the crossbar or a post, and even a keeper parry does not put an offside player in an onside position. It needs to be something considered possession for that to happen.
I can’t find the replay so I trust what all three of you are saying.
Also, since we're talking about xG and what-ifs, considering that red-hot league darling DCU went to YS a month ago and did absolutely nothing to earn the tie they got. I mean, the free kick that lead to the SJ blooper that ended in a goal had maybe a xG of 0.1? And the only other shot they had was an acrobatic Rooney bicycle kick. We had a gazillion less than mediocre chances that still would add up to about 2.0 xG. So if we're doing xG and hypotheticals I would say that playing horribly and etc. We've probably still won this home and away against DCU on the xG field winning 2-0 at YS and losing 2-1 at Audi Field in the eternal sunshine of our fan minds.
All that to say that it's frustrating to be playing this bad, that only lowers us to the level of maybe 8 other playoff teams. But we used to be much better, and then Dome happened.
Frankly, I don't think we have enough time to figure it out. It's No Shit Sherlock obvious that the best course would have been caretaking not overhauling. With Dome, we certainly didn't get someone with fresh eyes to make some minor tweaks and button up set pieces, etc. We got chaos and confusion. And a frustrated team with no confidence. Maybe Dome is a tactical genius with insufficient time. Or maybe he's a better fit as an assistant with assigned tasks. Who knows, it doesn't matter as far as this season is concerned. He has failed at interim. Actually, we have failed at interim, as the blame needs to be spread to many.
We still have a shot to make a run. But it will be a matter of taking advantage of what should be a tremendous homefield advantage, Villa willing a last legs last hurrah, and guys like Maxi and Ring playing like superstars on the big stage. It will be winning in spite of rather than because of our tactics. It's possible in our optimistic dreams, but even the optimist in me recognizes that it's going to take an alignment of special factors to undo this form.
We still have a shot to make a run. But it will be a matter of taking advantage of what should be a tremendous homefield advantage, Villa willing a last legs last hurrah, and guys like Maxi and Ring playing like superstars on the big stage. It will be winning in spite of rather than because of our tactics. It's possible in our optimistic dreams, but even the optimist in me recognizes that it's going to take an alignment of special factors to undo this form.
0:32 This is the second time that the BTS video turned into NYCFC: The Sippy Cup Diaries
1:01 - What are the supporters chanting? It sounds like BEN-ay, BEN-ay. Can anyone make it out?
Patty ball is our best shot but my worry is the PV one touch passing approach seems very dependent rhythm and everyone being in sync with each other. It took a long time for that approach to start appearing natural to the players and for the turnovers to go down. Dome shut it down a long time ago and doesn't seem like the type of thing that turns back on that easily.
The one touch quick passing is completely gone, we take forever to move the ball now. I can't figure out if it's gone based on a deliberate change in instructions by Dome or just because PV isn't there constantly drilling it in practice and standing on the sideline yelling faster, play faster, over and over. Maybe someone with better tactical insight than me knows why it's gone but it's a shame as it was fun to watch.
A couple of latergram observations:
A few weeks ago folks around here were complaining that we couldn’t finish and all that possession was going for naught. At the time I was on the “If we keep playing like this, we’ll start to score” team. Unfortunately we didn’t and we didn’t.
Maxi is our MVP and he was out. He is the single thread running through anything good that has happened this year.
Neither Taty nor Medina has earned the right to start over Isi.
I was one of those who expressed disappointment in Yangel earlier this year. With the team clicking at such a high level, we had the luxury of doing so, and the team weathered his and Villa’s absences pretty well until and even through the Amagat Red Card Wedding. Today we saw what we have been missing, and my take is that he was never really that bad earlier in the year, but context is everything. His ball in to Villa for the goal was magic and he made Ring better.
On Amagat. In the game he is more the symbol than the agent of our decline. Aside from the red card, he hasn’t been all that bad on the field (I’d say he and Ofori are about a wash — meaning not helpful but usually not the biggest problem). But if his presence in the 11 causes morale problems, that’s a huge problem. And symbols matter.
And lest I let either of those two off the hook, neither of them tracked back on the second goal yesterday. Tinner was in no position to jump in on Acosta. That was a CMF responsibility and they both failed.
Acosta’s weave through four people including Tinner and Ring looked as bad or worse than anything Sweat and/or Mata have allowed this year.
I agreed with Ian that Ring was playing way too deep. Why can’t Dome just let him play #6, where he did so well all last year. For a while he was in attack, now he’s practically sweeping.
I have very low expectations for the rest of the season (which I estimate at 2 more matches). At the same time I will be very unhappy if we have to endure a major rebuild to suit Dome’s “style.” This is a squad that not so long ago had a 9-point week with significant absences, and won consistently without Villa. They are clearly not playing to potential and that has to be on the manager.
A few weeks ago folks around here were complaining that we couldn’t finish and all that possession was going for naught. At the time I was on the “If we keep playing like this, we’ll start to score” team. Unfortunately we didn’t and we didn’t.
Maxi is our MVP and he was out. He is the single thread running through anything good that has happened this year.
Neither Taty nor Medina has earned the right to start over Isi.
I was one of those who expressed disappointment in Yangel earlier this year. With the team clicking at such a high level, we had the luxury of doing so, and the team weathered his and Villa’s absences pretty well until and even through the Amagat Red Card Wedding. Today we saw what we have been missing, and my take is that he was never really that bad earlier in the year, but context is everything. His ball in to Villa for the goal was magic and he made Ring better.
On Amagat. In the game he is more the symbol than the agent of our decline. Aside from the red card, he hasn’t been all that bad on the field (I’d say he and Ofori are about a wash — meaning not helpful but usually not the biggest problem). But if his presence in the 11 causes morale problems, that’s a huge problem. And symbols matter.
And lest I let either of those two off the hook, neither of them tracked back on the second goal yesterday. Tinner was in no position to jump in on Acosta. That was a CMF responsibility and they both failed.
Acosta’s weave through four people including Tinner and Ring looked as bad or worse than anything Sweat and/or Mata have allowed this year.
I agreed with Ian that Ring was playing way too deep. Why can’t Dome just let him play #6, where he did so well all last year. For a while he was in attack, now he’s practically sweeping.
I have very low expectations for the rest of the season (which I estimate at 2 more matches). At the same time I will be very unhappy if we have to endure a major rebuild to suit Dome’s “style.” This is a squad that not so long ago had a 9-point week with significant absences, and won consistently without Villa. They are clearly not playing to potential and that has to be on the manager.
P.S. I’m clearly meme-challenged. Can someone interpret Awuah’s tweet for me?
You could have made this 9 posts and gotten 8 Likes from me.
Well, it's not like we're identical. Gotta show some separation.mgarbowski Only 8?
Dome seems to be relearning a lot of what PV figured out in his first season which is disappointing. There was a short stint of time where PV had Iraola sit super deep in the spot Ring now appears to be parked in with our FBs bombing forward at will. The problem is that we have never in the history of this club produced goals with overlapping FBs and balls in from the wings. Our fullbacks have never had the passing accuracy to pull it off and none of our forwards excel at scoring from balls in the air. PV quickly pivoted to the play through the middle approach and things improved. Its frustrating that instead of building on the lessens learned by PV the learning cycle is happening all over again like we are starting from scratch what happened to CFG continuity? As long as we have Villa in the middle and play on a narrow field at YS blasting balls in from the flanks is never going to work and I'm not sure why each new coach seems to be tempted to toy with it.
So this is something that that I did see yesterday, which is another reason I thought we had played a little bit better. They didn’t do it enough, and it never led to a goal, but I definitely saw multiple sequences of one touch passing, including some in and around the box. Because I remember thinking, oh, so we do still know how to do that.
Yangel definitely wasn't playing well earlier this year, but even a halfway good Herrera is a bonus to have because we didn't have anyone else fill in to do the grunt work like he does. Herrera is the only box to box midfielder we have that is willing to stick a leg into a challenge and send a pass in the forward direction. While Ofori, Amagat, and anyone else was decentish through the year, we lacked strength and box to box chaos that Herrera brings.
Ofori/Amagat/TMac/Awuah are all players who (in my opinion) didn't add anything to the team. They almost always seemed to take the safest pass option and just go sideways or back when in possession. Ofori doesn't really go into challenges, and Amagat just gets sent off or out run.
I have a feeling Herrera brings an edge and a chip on our shoulder, something not exactly defined by a stat line (xCoS for expected chips on Shoulder(s)), but a little more emotional and needed with our formation. Someone to dig deep and allow for the creators to create, knowing they have a bulldog backing them up. Ring knows he can go into challenges and plunder souls knowing he has backup in Herrera. Ring's looked half-assed and worried when making challenges, almost knowing Ofori or Amagat won't be there to back him up.
My only problem is I don't think Herrera will be back to full chaos in time for a postseason run. *sigh*
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