MLS - August 17 - Charlotte (RBA)

[Brooklyn Blue]

Seriously, I saw you pointing at the midseason coach change in the chat. I'm so fed up with it. I have almost no vouchers left on my season plan and I'm glad. I don't want to go. I am content to watch on TV but I have no interest in avid fandom right now because the club just seems to have said ahh feck it, let's focus on 2023. They way they let another coach quit on us midseason and then did zipwah in the transfer window. I'm even annoyed I have tickets to the Stupid Champions Cup game.

All of this.

I can see how the injuries wrecked the plan to proceed with the current roster after Taty. I can see how three straight summer road games and a short week make for a tough stretch of games.

I can't see it with Cushing and it is tough to stay interested. There were frustrations with PV, Dome, and Ronny, but there were glimpes with each that you could sense a plan - even if one disagreed with the plan. What is Cushing's plan? So far all it appears to be is changing the level of defensive engagement, which has been a mess for this team and this league. If I am missing his grand scheme, I am more than happy to read about it and try to regain interest, but all I can see is a drag to the end of the season and perhaps one playoff win...and turning my attention to European leagues and football.

4-5-4 with a -2 goal differential with Cushing (and with some Taty).

8-2-2 with a +18 goal differential under Ronny.

I know it is easy to blame coaches and managers, but shouldn't an interim coach have less need to adapt to his system midseason?

Bleh.

 

[canchon]

Heber should have banged in an open look inside the box.
Talles should have passed to Heber for a wide open goal.
The defense is a tire fire, we have no midfield, and the attackers are lost in a fog.

yup, we’re done folks.

 

[Shwafta]

All of this.

I can see how the injuries wrecked the plan to proceed with the current roster after Taty. I can see how three straight summer road games and a short week make for a tough stretch of games.

I can't see it with Cushing and it is tough to stay interested. There were frustrations with PV, Dome, and Ronny, but there were glimpes with each that you could sense a plan - even if one disagreed with the plan. What is Cushing's plan? So far all it appears to be is changing the level of defensive engagement, which has been a mess for this team and this league. If I am missing his grand scheme, I am more than happy to read about it and try to regain interest, but all I can see is a drag to the end of the season and perhaps one playoff win...and turning my attention to European leagues and football.

4-5-4 with a -2 goal differential with Cushing (and with some Taty).

8-2-2 with a +18 goal differential under Ronny.

I know it is easy to blame coaches and managers, but shouldn't an interim coach have less need to adapt to his system midseason?

Bleh.

I disagree.
I think Cushing will be good if we stick with him. I'm always for sticking with the head coach.

I distinctly remember during the early ronny era people being like "ronny has no plan, i see no plan here, everything's chaos", and it sounds like that same trumpet is being sounded again.

I hold my opinion of sticking with the head coach for longer. Each head coach has their own plan. Cushing is not Deila. Yes, what Deila was doing worked with the players... but again, Cushing is not Deila. Imagine yourself - if your direct manager left right now, would you be able to 100% take over and do exactly what he was doing? Probably not.

Especially mid-season when he's like "what? I'm taking over? HUH okay...."

That's my opinion, of course.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

I disagree.
I think Cushing will be good if we stick with him. I'm always for sticking with the head coach.

I distinctly remember during the early ronny era people being like "ronny has no plan, i see no plan here, everything's chaos", and it sounds like that same trumpet is being sounded again.

I hold my opinion of sticking with the head coach for longer. Each head coach has their own plan. Cushing is not Deila. Yes, what Deila was doing worked with the players... but again, Cushing is not Deila. Imagine yourself - if your direct manager left right now, would you be able to 100% take over and do exactly what he was doing? Probably not.

Especially mid-season when he's like "what? I'm taking over? HUH okay...."

That's my opinion, of course.

Fair. And it is easy to blame coaches/managers. But, to me, the change in team play under Cushing has been regressive and not inventive.

Between injuries, transfers, and the coaching change I accept that this season is a wash but for another against the odds run in the playoffs. It may also be fair to give Cushing a chance with a healthy team that has a striker - but I wouldn't object to a manager change if one was made.

Cushing was named interim manager unlike Dome. Perhaps it is a change in policy, but perhaps it is a concern CFG had.

 

[KevinJRogers]

Imagine yourself - if your direct manager left right now, would you be able to 100% take over and do exactly what he was doing? Probably not.

Especially mid-season when he's like "what? I'm taking over? HUH okay...."

I think this is definitely in the ballpark. My personal guess is Cushing had (as most assistants do) some idea what he'd do differently if he were head coach, but once it actually happened and he was the boss he got hung up between his own ideas and the need for continuity after a midseason change.

But that's just a guess.

One thing we know: The one time he got relatively daring he got a good result. So, I think he's capable, maybe even very capable. It could just be a matter of him, and the team, being in an awkward position. (Injuries aren't helping either, especially losing Keaton.)

 

[KevinJRogers]

Perhaps it is a change in policy, but perhaps it is a concern CFG had.

It may have been much sooner than the organization was planning. Or he could have been on track for another assistant role, maybe even with the big club, or some other job.

 

[moogoo]

tough loss. once again, we showed we can't play against an aggressive press.

for all the reasons mentioned, this team has lost it's mojo. whether we find it again is a big question. but it's hard to believe right now. especially when it's so easy to make us fall apart with a high press and then we just fall apart ourselves with sloppy passing in our defensive third.

i want to believe we'll bounce back... it's difficult.

 

[KevinJRogers]

(W)e showed we can't play against an aggressive press.

This is a big problem, and I think part of it is physical. We're getting beat up. And it's making us fall a beat behind.

Argh. I'm going to go read in bed. I'm revisiting Philip Bobbitt 20 years later, cheerful stuff about, you know, the inevitability of war and all that.

He was right about so much. I'd love to know if he thinks, as I do, we should get out of the 4-2-3-1.

 

[Antidote P. Smiley]

Saw Callens in the elevator as I was leaving the game. Never seen him look so perturbed. Decided to

This is a big problem, and I think part of it is physical. We're getting beat up. And it's making us fall a beat behind.

Argh. I'm going to go read in bed. I'm revisiting Philip Bobbitt 20 years later, cheerful stuff about, you know, the inevitability of war and all that.

He was right about so much. I'd love to know if he thinks, as I do, we should get out of the 4-2-3-1.

Never heard of Phillip Bobbit before and just looked him up. You’re reading that 900 page book Shield of Achilles? Just a little Light Summer reading Mr.Rogers?

 

[Revfugee]

tough loss. once again, we showed we can't play against an aggressive press.

for all the reasons mentioned, this team has lost it's mojo. whether we find it again is a big question. but it's hard to believe right now. especially when it's so easy to make us fall apart with a high press and then we just fall apart ourselves with sloppy passing in our defensive third.

i want to believe we'll bounce back... it's difficult.

August- September 2018 everyone here: “Dome out, it’s chaos! Villa is done! Maxi is a disappointment!” August/ September 2021: “Ronny out, the players have quit on him, Taty had a bump early on but he’s trash now.” August September 2022””Cushing out, they’ve lost the plot! They didn’t replace Taty.”
Especially in MLS the better team often doesn’t get the result. It sucks that our coaches get better offers and leave because we have played consistently attractive and mostly dominant football for 7 years now. It’s all part of the process. Call Heber trash all you want, but where we are lacking is at #8 (KP), the chemistry that Callens and Thiago rode to those clean sheets, and in the kind of seasoning that Taty went through(Thiago, Talles, Santi, GP).

Nick has a lot to prove but we were in way worse shape at this point (and it got worse) in many if not most of our previous seasons than we are now.
Most concerning to me tonight is Fredo going down, which nobody seems to have mentioned. The other thing I noticed up close and personal tonight is that while Tinner’s instincts are impeccable, he has not regained his full quickness. He’s a half step behind his thought processes. Hope he can get that back with more minutes.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Heber should have banged in an open look inside the box.
Talles should have passed to Heber for a wide open goal.
The defense is a tire fire, we have no midfield, and the attackers are lost in a fog.

yup, we’re done folks.

After seeing what happened last year, we're still going with "we're done?" Come on. This is incredibly frustrating, we have no business losing to that team, we are playing terribly and making incredibly simplistic and unbelievable mistakes, but the idea that we're done is fanciful.

There were people here who thought we'd miss the playoffs last year. We won the entire thing. There are 9 games left. We are still in good position to be no worse than 2nd in the East. We are struggling now, but the idea this team - this immensely talented team -- can't turn this around? Of course they can.

Maybe they don't turn it around. Alfredo's injury looked pretty serious, and maybe all the other injuries are taking their toll. But this team is still talented enough to go on a run.

 

[CCMore]

Remember that time after the MLS cup when this forum mentioned giving a ton of leeway to the club for a couple years after winning the cup? No? Neither do I.

 

[LionNYC]

I need to figure out a new formation for the magnets

 

[SoupInNYC]

After seeing what happened last year, we're still going with "we're done?" Come on. This is incredibly frustrating, we have no business losing to that team, we are playing terribly and making incredibly simplistic and unbelievable mistakes, but the idea that we're done is fanciful.

Yes, this.

Last night was atrocious, should not have happened. Nick isn't managing the team well. The back is making egregious giveaways directly leading to goals.

But the team still has a ton of talent and can get this figured out. I'm not saying Cushing will do it or that I currently believe in him, but perhaps he can do it.

Ronny in mid-2020 was an incredibly stubborn man. For all his "I'd rather win 5-4 than 1-0" talk when he was hired, he was happy to start Alex Ring at the wing and when pressed about it during press conferences, he responded with "well that's a negative question" and pushed back. It took him time to grow into the manager role at the club and understand to own and learn from moves he made that were mistakes.

Perhaps it will be the same for Nick. I hope it is, because what he's doing right now ain't it.

Things suck right now, but this team isn't "done". At least not yet.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

After seeing what happened last year, we're still going with "we're done?" Come on. This is incredibly frustrating, we have no business losing to that team, we are playing terribly and making incredibly simplistic and unbelievable mistakes, but the idea that we're done is fanciful.

There were people here who thought we'd miss the playoffs last year. We won the entire thing. There are 9 games left. We are still in good position to be no worse than 2nd in the East. We are struggling now, but the idea this team - this immensely talented team -- can't turn this around? Of course they can.

Maybe they don't turn it around. Alfredo's injury looked pretty serious, and maybe all the other injuries are taking their toll. But this team is still talented enough to go on a run.

It is possible the team can go on a run. Last year is proof of that. However, last year was the exception and not the rule. Winning three road playoff games after multiple shootouts is not a consistent formula for success.

The frustration of many is a combination of a recognition of how unusual the 2021 run was with the suddenness of the recent swoon. Fewest shots in a game in franchise history. First time losing multiple games in a row this season. First time conceding three goals for three straight losses. It's been a cliff, not a slope.

Remember that time after the MLS cup when this forum mentioned giving a ton of leeway to the club for a couple years after winning the cup? No? Neither do I.

One can give leeway and still be frustrated. I believe the quote is "I am not mad, I am disappointed." The season started with the promise of five possible trophies. Realistically, that is down to two.

I am as guilty of anyone of overreaction in the game chat, so I'll find three positives from last night:

1) Magno showed signs of what he can be. His hold up play and passing were excellent.

2) Johnson seems to be on his game. Three goals conceded, but none were his fault, and he had some excellent stops (even if the opportunities should have been prevented earlier).

3) Tinnerholm went 90. He may still be a bit off his peak, but a full game is a start.

 

[Shwafta]

It is possible the team can go on a run. Last year is proof of that. However, last year was the exception and not the rule. Winning three road playoff games after multiple shootouts is not a consistent formula for success.

The frustration of many is a combination of a recognition of how unusual the 2021 run was with the suddenness of the recent swoon. Fewest shots in a game in franchise history. First time losing multiple games in a row this season. First time conceding three goals for three straight losses. It's been a cliff, not a slope.



One can give leeway and still be frustrated. I believe the quote is "I am not mad, I am disappointed." The season started with the promise of five possible trophies. Realistically, that is down to two.

I am as guilty of anyone of overreaction in the game chat, so I'll find three positives from last night:

1) Magno showed signs of what he can be. His hold up play and passing were excellent.

2) Johnson seems to be on his game. Three goals conceded, but none were his fault, and he had some excellent stops (even if the opportunities should have been prevented earlier).

3) Tinnerholm went 90. He may still be a big off his peak, but a full game is a start.

Another positive, to get the positivity rolling:

The ball got into the box nicely, a bunch of times, which we haven't seen much in some of the previous games.

Which is a good sign, because eventually someone will be up there and actually ready to score. Whether it's heber or thiago or talles.... someone will start converting the stuff being sent in!

 

[canchon]

After seeing what happened last year, we're still going with "we're done?" Come on. This is incredibly frustrating, we have no business losing to that team, we are playing terribly and making incredibly simplistic and unbelievable mistakes, but the idea that we're done is fanciful.

There were people here who thought we'd miss the playoffs last year. We won the entire thing. There are 9 games left. We are still in good position to be no worse than 2nd in the East. We are struggling now, but the idea this team - this immensely talented team -- can't turn this around? Of course they can.

Maybe they don't turn it around. Alfredo's injury looked pretty serious, and maybe all the other injuries are taking their toll. But this team is still talented enough to go on a run.

Alex Callens.
Alfredo Morales.
Keaton Parks.
<insert striker for Taty>.

All either gone or on long term injury. The team has no spine.

 

[SoupInNYC]

It is possible the team can go on a run. Last year is proof of that. However, last year was the exception and not the rule. Winning three road playoff games after multiple shootouts is not a consistent formula for success.

No, winning three road playoff games after multiple shootouts is not a consistent formula for success.

But what is a consistent formula for success is having the 7th highest xGD in MLS history. And that did demonstrate that last year's club was more than capable of doing exactly what they did in the playoffs last year. Especially when you add to that, how good last year's club was in both attacking and defending set pieces, as both of those items drastically impact knockout stage matches and can even things out more in the favor of less talented teams.

 

[FredMertz]

They just look so lifeless, like they are literally waiting for Taty to give them a spark.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Remember that time after the MLS cup when this forum mentioned giving a ton of leeway to the club for a couple years after winning the cup? No? Neither do I.

I was on one of those people, and I still believe that whatever happens this season is gravy. For me, the pressure doesn't rise again until next year. They get -- and deserve -- a honeymoon season after winning last year.