MLS Week 23

[Taurus]

Ok, I'll buy that if he kicked the ball from the field of vision, BUT........ Technically, the player came from and offside position to get a foot on the ball AND his body is in an offside position. Thus he is unequivocally at fault and the ref's whistle should have stopped the game immediately for a free kick. I do not this this fact is even debatable and is so simplistic that the Linesmen and Ref should be iced from future assignments for not understanding a basic rule.

He's only offside if it was passed by a teamate.

 

[Ulrich]

A player in an offside position is only penalized under certain conditions which always minimally require the ball being played by a team member.
I do think it should have been a foul for different reasons.

And then there's this: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/5. law 11_554.pdf

 

[mgarbowski]

And then there's this: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/5. law 11_554.pdf

View attachment 5587
View attachment 5588

Fine . Ignore the big box titled "When?" Double down on wrong.

 

[Ulrich]

Fine . Ignore the big box titled "When?" Double down on wrong.

I Doubled down (as you phrased it) and looky-looky, I just won the hand:

So by definition, the player was in an offside position, and per this slide he committed an infraction that is never allowed while in an offside position regardless of whether a teammate plays the ball (the WHEN you say I ignored).

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf

 

[Gotham Gator]

It was not offside. There was no pass.

 

[Ulrich]

It was not offside. There was no pass.

Look at the slide above. He was in an Offside Position and interfered with the goalkeeper. That is a foul by definition as it clearly indicated he cannot do. Had two opponents been between him and the goal, what he did would have been perfectly legal, but there weren't, so he was.

 

[mgarbowski]

I Doubled down (as you phrased it) and looky-looky, I just won the hand:

So by definition, the player was in an offside position, and per this slide he committed an infraction that is never allowed while in an offside position regardless of whether a teammate plays the ball (the WHEN you say I ignored).

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf

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You're treating a slideshow as the actual rules. The slideshow largely ignores the When factor because it's the simplest most basic part nobody ever gets wrong until now.

The Actual Laws of the Game state:
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:
• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball or
• gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
• been deliberately saved by any opponent

Everyone one of these is dependent on the player being offside when the ball is played or touched by a teammate.


http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/Foo.../92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf

 

[mgarbowski]

Same document:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/Foo.../92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf


Look at the offside scenario diagrams on pp 193-199. Every single one starts with the ball being played by a teammate to establish the offside position.
Every.
One.
Including page 197 bottom which states:
"An attacker in an offside position (B) is penalised for playing or touching the ball that rebounds, is deflected or is played from a deliberate save by the goalkeeper having been in an offside position when the ball was last touched or is played by a team-mate.

 

[SoupInNYC]

You're trating a slideshow as the actual rules. The slideshow largely ignolres the When factor because it's the simplest most basic part nobody ever gets wrong until now.

The Actual Laws of the Game state:
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:
• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball or
• gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
• been deliberately saved by any opponent

Everyone one of these is dependent on the player being offside when the ball is played or touched by a teammate.


http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/Foo.../92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf

Agreed. Otherwise, say the opposing CB passes back to the GK and Villa presses, causing the GK to turn the ball over. Villa would be "interfering with an opponent" while in an offside position, but that wouldn't be considered offsides.

 

[Ulrich]

You're trating a slideshow as the actual rules. The slideshow largely ignolres the When factor because it's the simplest most basic part nobody ever gets wrong until now.

The Actual Laws of the Game state:
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:
• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball or
• gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
• been deliberately saved by any opponent

Everyone one of these is dependent on the player being offside when the ball is played or touched by a teammate.


http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/Foo.../92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf

No, I'm treating a FIFA powerpoint that is used to explain the implementation of the rules to Referees as what it is.

There are two definitions at play:
1. Offside Position
2. Offsides

One can be in an offside position and not be flagged for offsides by either not being part of the play or a teammate not playing the ball. But if while in an offside position (not offsides), the player commits ANY of the (3) items listed, it is deemed an infraction because of his positioning and the act of making himself part of the play. That is why the slide says that the (3) items cannot take place when in an offside position.

Perhaps we are now splitting hairs, of whether he was offsides, when in actuality the act of being in the offside position is what activates the interference with a play/opponent. This also doubles up with FIFA Rule 12 (subrule): Preventing the goalkeeper from releasing the ball with his hands.

 

[mgarbowski]

No, I'm treating a FIFA powerpoint that is used to explain the implementation of the rules to Referees as what it is.

There are two definitions at play:
1. Offside Position
2. Offsides

One can be in an offside position and not be flagged for offsides by either not being part of the play or a teammate not playing the ball. But if while in an offside position (not offsides), the player commits ANY of the (3) items listed, it is deemed an infraction because of his positioning and the act of making himself part of the play. That is why the slide says that the (3) items cannot take place when in an offside position.

Perhaps we are now splitting hairs, of whether he was offsides, when in actuality the act of being in the offside position is what activates the interference with a play/opponent. This also doubles up with FIFA Rule 12 (subrule): Preventing the goalkeeper from releasing the ball with his hands.

Yes. Slideshow overrides The Rules Of The Game.

ETA
Plus you are misreading it. The slideshow is all about the interference and actively involved part of the rule which nobody understands. Again. Nobody ever misinterpreted the When part until you today.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Apparently, the Professional Referee Organization has blessed Movsisyan's steal and the subsequent goal as okay, saying he didn't touch the ball until it was out of the goalie's hands.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...al-win-vancouver-should-not-have-been-allowed

 

[FootyLovin]

You know that moment when you realize that something you've believed to be true for years, maybe even your whole life, is suddenly discovered to be glaringly obviously not true?

Seems about to happen. No?

 

[JayH]

You know that moment when you realize that something you've believed to be true for years, maybe even your whole life, is suddenly discovered to be glaringly obviously not true?

Seems about to happen. No?

Not even a teaser hashtag?