"nycfc Is Not The Way Forward For Mls And Us Soccer"

MagnusPax

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I posted this article link in another thread but I thought it deserved its own. Did anyone else read this piece? There are so many holes I can't even begin. Saunders is a International? Kreis not caring about developing American players? Also takes pot shots at MC by saying they have no good English players in their academy so therefore NYC won't create new American players. Why is this even a consideration? Do you think DCU academy is considered a failure because they groomed Andy Najar for Honduras (while also finding Bill Hamid...).

Anyways, just wanted you guys to read it and comment too.

http://www.thehardtackle.com/2014/nycfc-not-the-way-forward-for-mls-and-us-soccer/

If anyone cares, you can find the author on Twitter: Brad Burns (@bradjamesburns)
 

einwindir

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I had to stop midway through the article. These arguments are based on assumptions and assumptions make for very poor journalism.
 

Midas Mulligan

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I couldn't help it. I posted and told the author he's an idiot.

In the future, let's just post all the text of shit like this so they don't get clicks.
 
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MagnusPax

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I read it this morning, and it bothered me all day. I don't want to encourage crap like this, but I was so outraged I wanted to know I wasn't the only one that found it to be complete crap.

Thanks!
 
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OSNY87

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Same sort of crap you'd hear from all these people crying about how NYCFC isn't "organic" enough for the league and that NYCFC is going to bring on the end of the MLS and blah blah blah.
 

Davo15

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Yeah read this independently myself and would have possibly posted the link if no one else had. Like everyone else I call bull shit. I in fact think NYCFC and the potential academy they should be opening with money and expertise should be one of the best things to happen to MLS and even more so the US national team in a long time.
 

MikeDatTiger

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I'm going to start naming the problems:

*The "new club smell" has worn off 7 months before they kick a ball? Dang that's tough.
*I'm not quite sure MLS's eagerness to overpay for older USMNT stars is a huge positive for the league. I'm glad it attracts fans, and for that it's good but for the quality it's not so great.
*I think it's odd to fault MCFC for its Academy failures domestically since MCFC has only recently began investing there. MCFC's strategy was investing first in getting the first team squad to UCL and EPL title contenders then the academy. Most of the upgrades to the academy have only just completed. Returns on development investment aren't immediate.
*It's worth noting that those 4 youth players this guy is complaining about made SKC look like Chivas this summer.
*I think an American-born Puerto Rican doesn't use an international spot
*Of these washed up stars, Robbie Keane and Thiery Henry are putting up great numbers in MLS even now. Does MLS not want good players?
*"able to take on" doesn't mean that City will have all four on. It will probably depend on a number of factors.
*Not spend on the academy? so City spent 80M on a team and however much they spend on a stadium plus the cash they're spending on Villa & lampard & future DPs just to give their youth players some MLS minutes? Seriously? The academy is going to be the one of the big perks for City. Remember, those foreign talents MCFC love would include Americans. NYCFC allows City to establish an academy and have potential americans train under the city system without having to move to England. That's a big deal; just ask Barcelona. Even if all of those don't get first team minutes at NYCFC, the pool created will help development and the quality in the league as a whole
*It's probably worth noting that at the point that the academy is built and has had time to produce MLS level talent, the DP situation and the 4 youth player situation may be different. There's no reason to think MCFC won't allow talented kids from the NYCFC an opportunity to play.
*Yes, MLS teams compete in the world market for players, because all players including Americans can choose to play for other clubs. See how many players leave even the academy system to go play for Euro youth teams. Having more money to compete in the world market includes not only attracting foreign stars but keeping Americans here.
*Yep. Jason Kreis totally doesn't care about developing American talent. There were no Americans from his old team, RSL in the USMNT this World Cup like Rimando or Beckerman. RSL never picked up talented youngsters like Louis Gil.
 

CP_Scouse

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damn, what a dick
tumblr_m41pbdFvKk1qisfp3o1_500.gif
 

D_RoyJenkins

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I had a log conversation with the person who wrote it on twitter. He basically admitted he's making a lot of assumptions. A lot of people have a bone to pick with NYCFC so they'll be more articles like this coming out as we get closer to launch
 

AlexB

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I posted this article link in another thread but I thought it deserved its own. Did anyone else read this piece? There are so many holes I can't even begin. Saunders is a International? Kreis not caring about developing American players? Also takes pot shots at MC by saying they have no good English players in their academy so therefore NYC won't create new American players. Why is this even a consideration? Do you think DCU academy is considered a failure because they groomed Andy Najar for Honduras (while also finding Bill Hamid...).

Anyways, just wanted you guys to read it and comment too.

http://www.thehardtackle.com/2014/nycfc-not-the-way-forward-for-mls-and-us-soccer/

If anyone cares, you can find the author on Twitter: Brad Burns (@bradjamesburns)

Thanks Magnus for bringing this type of "article", to my attention. No matter how misguided, no matter how disdainful, every individual is still entitled to their opinion. My two cents to this puerile piece, however, will have to wait until tomorrow.
 

MagnusPax

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On topic - not going to bother reading. Rather not feed trolls and haters
While I agree we don't want to feed haters and I respect your choice, I still like to see what others have to say. Its always good to see what could be done better, see things from a non-biased opinion or at least a non-NYCFC one, some times.

Its refreshing to me to read how badly this type of article is researched. Its obviously agenda-driven. It just proves to me that what NYCFC is doing is fun and interesting and not a drain on MLS. Everything these type of articles say just reinforce that opinion.
 

MikeDatTiger

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So I probably spent way too much time on this, but I wanted to evaluate whether if NYCFC uses 6-8 Internationals as this author alleges how uncommon that would be in MLS. My conclusion is that not only is not uncommon, it is the norm in MLS to have that amount of Internationals.

I made the following chart for your reference

upload_2014-8-22_10-55-5.png

Contained in that chart are the last lineups trotted out by each MLS team. I used their last lineup and included substitutes, since the author was concerned about minutes. I also did not count Canadian DPs against Canadian clubs but did against US clubs (as the author was upset about the notion of Americans not getting playing time). Every International is italicized; DPs are bolded. If you can't read it, here are the team by numbers of internationals used:

Galaxy: 7
Rapids: 4
Sounders: 6
Quakes: 5
DC: 2
RSL: 4
Montreal: 7
Fire: 6
Crew: 5
Revs: 3
Timbers: 12 (!)
SKC: 7
Toronto: 5
FC Dallas: 9
Chivas: 7
Vancouver: 10
Houston: 6
Union: 7
Red Bulls: 8

That averages out to 5.89 but I think the outliers may skew the picture.

Teams that played less than 5: 4
Teams that played 5: 3
Teams that played 6: 3
Teams that played 7: 5
That's that played 8: 1
That's that players More than 8: 3

So 7 teams played less than the 6 Internationals NYCFC are looking at at minimum. 9 teams (almost half the league) are in the 6-8 range.

Most importantly at least 12 teams are already playing more than 6 DPs. That's over half the league.

It's worth noting that one of those low numbers RSL, has two international DPs out which would have put them at 6 more likely. It's also worth commenting that Sporting KC, which the author celebrates as an example of virtuous American players, has 7, which is probably where NYCFC is going to fall in.

So bottom line is this: chill out and enjoy the show. MLS teams haven't gotten their academies up yet to the point where they don't need internationals, so there are plenty in the game today. NYCFC can't be blamed for bringing in players from overseas when their Academy hasn't even been built. NYCFC isn't going to represent a new wave of crowding out American players.
 

MagnusPax

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Great research. Every MLS Club starts with 8. according to the rules:
In 2014, a total of 152 international slots are divided among the 19 clubs. Each club began with eight international slots, which are tradable. There is no limit on the number of international slots on each club’s roster.

My guess is in 2015, with 21 teams, MLS will reset this to something like 168, to allow all existing 152 to be accounted for and give NYC and ORL their 8 apiece. Of course thats barring any changes to the CBA and roster rules.

EDIT:

Sorry just actually looked at your screenshot. Your numbers a little off, many of the players you say are Internationals are not in fact that. You forget that if a player has a green card for permanent residency then they do not count as Internationals in MLS roster rules. All this does is probably show less foreign players then there really are.
 

MikeDatTiger

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Great research. Every MLS Club starts with 8. according to the rules:
In 2014, a total of 152 international slots are divided among the 19 clubs. Each club began with eight international slots, which are tradable. There is no limit on the number of international slots on each club’s roster.

My guess is in 2015, with 21 teams, MLS will reset this to something like 168, to allow all existing 152 to be accounted for and give NYC and ORL their 8 apiece. Of course thats barring any changes to the CBA and roster rules.

EDIT:

Sorry just actually looked at your screenshot. Your numbers a little off, many of the players you say are Internationals are not in fact that. You forget that if a player has a green card for permanent residency then they do not count as Internationals in MLS roster rules. All this does is probably show less foreign players then there really are.

I wasn't looking at Internationals for MLS roster rules but rather country of origin. I think this makes more sense since so much of the author's critique was that American players will be crowded out of minutes at NYCFC unlike in other MLS clubs.
 
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AlexB

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My two cents:

The author of this piece initially implies the negative consequence of competition, delineating how NYCFC will do harm to the MLS. The author goes on to list a myriad of purported meaningful measurements to compare MLS to the rest of the world’s more established football leagues. While the author’s dilettante remarks are undoubtedly the result of impassioned emotion, they are misguided at best. What the author fails to understand, (or chooses to ignore), is all growth, even the prospect of growth begins with the ability to develop. Would the author chastise a child for not being as accomplished or able as an adult? Growing pains are a natural accompaniment and a part of the process. European, British and South American football leagues are well developed and established football leagues. These leagues have decades more involvement in professional football. The comparison itself is not the most wanton disparaging remark of the piece, but, it does warrant a bombastic tirade. NYCFC’s “new club smell” as the author puts it, is far from fading into obscurity. Quite the contrary NYCFC has just begun establishing its primary foundation. The very strength of NYCFC springs from its newness. It is not hindered by tradition nor burdened by the past. The established leagues by their very nature are less capable of change. But what necessitates America to follow or emulate these leagues? If one thing is certain it is America chooses its own path and its own destiny. It need not concern itself with how other countries think we should act. America is home to the millions of people from all over the world who choose their own path. New York City itself is a direct representation of this amalgamation. It is this spirit of New York City, which is embodied in NYCFC fans everywhere. People from all walks of life and nationalities find a home here. Simply put, New York City encapsulates the very essence of America.

If the MNT continues to endure its transformation under JK and plays with a unified purpose; winning the World Cup will capture the hearts of America unlike any sporting event in history. Forget about wanting to merely outclass our international rivals, it will be another “Landing on the Moon” moment. One necessary component prior to this magnificently glorious moment is the development of future talent. It must be cultivated under an organized and pivotal structure and NYCFC has indeed demonstrated its resolute determination and commitment to this formidable endeavor. It is this dynamic structure which can foster and shape a players vision as to what is possible, and allow the journey to begin. However, being able to have the opportunity to witness the formation of such a team and to see all the moving parts come together as one cohesive unit is just incredible. What an amazing time to be an MLS fan!
 
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