Jack Harrison to Manchester City - Official

[Midas Mulligan]

I keep hearing that Jack moving over to England is huge for the league, and while I get that to a certain degree, I think its quite overblown.

Because ultimately, does Jack Harrison get sold to England and receive legitimate interest from Boro, Swansea, Stoke, etc. if he isn't English? I don't think so one bit. Yes he is a very talented, young player, but I don't think he's so much so to be receiving buy offers from EPL teams other than the fact that he's English. Was there any interest from Bundesliga, Serie A, or La Liga?

Where players being sold from MLS really factors in is when guys like Almiron and academy players end up getting sold. IMO, Erik Palmer Brown getting picked up by MCFC is a much, much bigger deal than Jack.

I'm not certain why this has gotten to me, but I just don't see this as being that huge of a deal for the league as its made out to be. Maybe it provides an inkling more of interest from young, English players to give MLS a shot? But I'm not all that certain it does.

It's not that big of a deal because it's EPL to me. It's only "big" because it's a big 4 league. If he were Spanish, I think he would have had a chance to be bought by a Spanish team. It's really all about where he and his agent targeted their attempts at drumming up interest.

I'm not even sure Jack qualifies as a homegrown for UEFA/EPL purposes, since he didn't train at an academy past like 14 years old, and that factor, not nationality, is what I believe determines hg status there.

eta:
(Full disclosure: I don't think this transfer moves the needle at all. It certainly doesn't move it from the English football fan perspective relative to MLS quality. It'll either be they "saved him from a shite league" if he makes good, or he only stood out and got the opportunity b/c "MLS is shite". Either way, as you may have noticed, the key takeaway is MLS is shite.

 

[FredMertz]

It's not that big of a deal because it's EPL to me. It's only "big" because it's a big 4 league. If he were Spanish, I think he would have had a chance to be bought by a Spanish team. It's really all about where he and his agent targeted their attempts at drumming up interest.

I'm not even sure Jack qualifies as a homegrown for UEFA/EPL purposes, since he didn't train at an academy past like 14 years old, and that factor, not nationality, is what I believe determines hg status there.

eta:
(Full disclosure: I don't think this transfer moves the needle at all. It certainly doesn't move it from the English football fan perspective relative to MLS quality. It'll either be they "saved him from a shite league" if he makes good, or he only stood out and got the opportunity b/c "MLS is shite". Either way, as you may have noticed, the key takeaway is MLS is shite.

You’re looking at it from the wrong angle. Who gives a flying f*uck what English fans think? This is huge for MLS because it shows that the league can develop talent. So young talented players around the world will be more likely to come here to develop. And isn’t getting young global talent exactly what MLS version whatever is all about?

 

[canchon]

Maybe I shouldn’t post for the comedic value at our boys’s expense, but I chuckled at the video

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/959446145641664514

Pep’s initial reaction is priceless.

 

[canchon]

The “move the needle” sale (if and when it happens) is Almiron for $20-$25M to a big club (Arsenal, etc). That shows that a player can move from MLS to a starting role. Keep in mind Almiron will be 24 (?) this summer. 24 year olds are not “buy and grow for a few years.”

 

[Midas Mulligan]

You’re looking at it from the wrong angle. Who gives a flying f*uck what English fans think? This is huge for MLS because it shows that the league can develop talent. So young talented players around the world will be more likely to come here to develop. And isn’t getting young global talent exactly what MLS version whatever is all about?

Wut? I didn’t dispute, nor even address, any of that. MLS has a strong history of selling players overseas. That already existed and has existed for a decade or more. Off the top of my head, Clint Dempsey is the extent of shining successes.

And that’s the problem, even if you find others. There’s literally one off the top of the head of a guy who followed the league before NYCFC.

What moves the needle is a narrative backed by consistent success from those transferred out. That’s the main point. But I would add a slightly lesser point that selling players to other less-monied leagues is just as valuable to MLS from a global reputation standpoint. In fact, I’d argue it is more valuable as no other country seems as MLS-hostile as England.

It’s like, what the fuck? Does everyone forget the past sales to EPL clubs? Why is this one the “big” one? It’s just fucking not. That’s it. There’s not even an argument. It’s only a thing because MLS is trying their damnedest, as they should, to make it a thing.

It’s just not a thing. Or it is a thing. But it’s not a thing that matters, beyond at most being a little more piss on the house fire that is the international reputation of MLS among the potential player buyers.

 

[Ulrich]

I think everybody is looking at this from the wrong perspective. It’s big for MLS, not because they made a transfer to an English club, but because young English players can look at Jack and realize a good young English player can go the unorthodox route to MLS and still land in the Championship/EPL/YNT. If they can get past the stigma of MLS, and see it as either a spring board, or even a destination, and (many) more come over to play, then it will have a positive effect on TV viewership in England raising the broadcasting fees. More young talented player and more foreign tv fees are both good for MLS.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I think everybody is looking at this from the wrong perspective. It’s big for MLS, not because they made a transfer to an English club, but because young English players can look at Jack and realize a good young English player can go the unorthodox route to MLS and still land in the Championship/EPL/YNT. If they can get past the stigma of MLS, and see it as either a spring board, or even a destination, and (many) more come over to play, then it will have a positive effect on TV viewership in England raising the broadcasting fees. More young talented player and more foreign tv fees are both good for MLS.

Nope. This isn’t the driver. The driver was him getting a great experience and nice contract while he was here.

ETA: here’s why - if you’re entertaining options while in England, this ain’t important enough to make you forego a clear path to first team Champ/Premier footy. If you aren’t, you want to go somewhere you have options.

6 months or so ago, I posted an article about young English players saying as much.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

The “move the needle” sale (if and when it happens) is Almiron for $20-$25M to a big club (Arsenal, etc). That shows that a player can move from MLS to a starting role. Keep in mind Almiron will be 24 (?) this summer. 24 year olds are not “buy and grow for a few years.”

This guy “f*ucks”

(Eta: full credit to FredMertz for introducing me to the fastericksucks)

ETA 2: canchon fucks, though. I just wanted to use fastericksucks for Fred.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Nope. This isn’t the driver. The driver was him getting a great experience and nice contract while he was here.

ETA: here’s why - if you’re entertaining options while in England, this ain’t important enough to make you forego a clear path to first team Champ/Premier footy. If you aren’t, you want to go somewhere you have options.

6 months or so ago, I posted an article about young English players saying as much.

Jack Harrison has an interesting and unconventional story. This mechanics and motives behind this transfer and loan are intriguing.

In many of the ways you're pointing out, this is a bit of a nothing transfer, but I think the narrative resonates with people enough that this is good publicity for MLS. Anecdotally, I know England fans who don't really follow MLS who are keen on NYCFC because of Jack.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Jack Harrison has an interesting and unconventional story. This mechanics and motives behind this transfer and loan are intriguing.

In many of the ways you're pointing out, this is a bit of a nothing transfer, but I think the narrative resonates with people enough that this is good publicity for MLS. Anecdotally, I know England fans who don't really follow MLS who are keen on NYCFC because of Jack.

But it surely doesn’t resonate in a way that it stands alone as groundbreaking proof that MLS is 4realz as some seem to want to suggest.

I happen to disagree with all of it, frankly. I don’t see Jack doing much of anything because I think he just signed a certificate announcing he’s left the best team for which he’ll ever play.

Hope for him I’m wrong and he finds his way to greener pastures. I don’t see it, though. Not with the choices made.

 

[FredMertz]

But it surely doesn’t resonate in a way that it stands alone as groundbreaking proof that MLS is 4realz as some seem to want to suggest.

I happen to disagree with all of it, frankly. I don’t see Jack doing much of anything because I think he just signed a certificate announcing he’s left the best team for which he’ll ever play.

Hope for him I’m wrong and he finds his way to greener pastures. I don’t see it, though. Not with the choices made.

So here’s a painfully drawn out analogy.

I went to business school a long time ago. When I was applying, I had a conversation with an admissions officer at Stanford, a school that accepted less than 3% of applicants at the time. She told me that they instantly eliminate 75% of the applications and immediately accept 1%. Then, through hard deliberation, they eliminate another 15% of the original aapplicants. Then - her words, not mine - they almost arbitrarily fill out the class with people who are all equally qualified to attend.

That’s what the Academy systems are like in Europe. They have to narrow it down and it becomes arbitrary. And if you’re the 12th best player at an age level in Southampton’s Academy, you’re probably f*ucked (see, I’m running with the joke). Mumsi had unusual foresight to see that coming here offered Jack an education, a shot at playing 90 minutes a game and a chance to be a big fish ina smaller pond. There are lots of Jack Harrisons out there and now they have a reason to think coming here can get them where they want to go.

Now Ulrich , I said the exact same thing before, so we’re not all looking at it the wrong way.

And Midas Mulligan , do you read your posts after someone replies to them. To my reading, you clearly listed your expectation of what English fans will say about MLS in response to this transfer as one of your reasons it’s not a big deal. The “either way they’ll think MLS is shite,” part? Who cares?

You’re definitely well versed in straw man arguments, but maybe you’re overusing a bit? Seriously, who even implied that this “suggested MLS is 4realz” or that this would lead young players to, “forego a clear path to first team Champ/premier footy?” Nobody, that’s who!**

**unless it was CP Scouse, Mario or TonyBologna who I’ve mercifully ignored.

 

[Falastur]

It's not that big of a deal because it's EPL to me. It's only "big" because it's a big 4 league. If he were Spanish, I think he would have had a chance to be bought by a Spanish team. It's really all about where he and his agent targeted their attempts at drumming up interest.

I'm not even sure Jack qualifies as a homegrown for UEFA/EPL purposes, since he didn't train at an academy past like 14 years old, and that factor, not nationality, is what I believe determines hg status there.

eta:
(Full disclosure: I don't think this transfer moves the needle at all. It certainly doesn't move it from the English football fan perspective relative to MLS quality. It'll either be they "saved him from a shite league" if he makes good, or he only stood out and got the opportunity b/c "MLS is shite". Either way, as you may have noticed, the key takeaway is MLS is shite.

The rule, to the best of my knowledge, is that a player must have played 3+ years of academy football registered to an English club to count as HG. Doesn't matter if they were 10 or 18, it all counts

 

[Midas Mulligan]

The rule, to the best of my knowledge, is that a player must have played 3+ years of academy football registered to an English club to count as HG. Doesn't matter if they were 10 or 18, it all counts

Thanks. So Jack is one, then?

 

[Midas Mulligan]

So here’s a painfully drawn out analogy.

I went to business school a long time ago. When I was applying, I had a conversation with an admissions officer at Stanford, a school that accepted less than 3% of applicants at the time. She told me that they instantly eliminate 75% of the applications and immediately accept 1%. Then, through hard deliberation, they eliminate another 15% of the original aapplicants. Then - her words, not mine - they almost arbitrarily fill out the class with people who are all equally qualified to attend.

That’s what the Academy systems are like in Europe. They have to narrow it down and it becomes arbitrary. And if you’re the 12th best player at an age level in Southampton’s Academy, you’re probably f*ucked (see, I’m running with the joke). Mumsi had unusual foresight to see that coming here offered Jack an education, a shot at playing 90 minutes a game and a chance to be a big fish ina smaller pond. There are lots of Jack Harrisons out there and now they have a reason to think coming here can get them where they want to go.

Now Ulrich , I said the exact same thing before, so we’re not all looking at it the wrong way.

And Midas Mulligan , do you read your posts after someone replies to them. To my reading, you clearly listed your expectation of what English fans will say about MLS in response to this transfer as one of your reasons it’s not a big deal. The “either way they’ll think MLS is shite,” part? Who cares?

You’re definitely well versed in straw man arguments, but maybe you’re overusing a bit? Seriously, who even implied that this “suggested MLS is 4realz” or that this would lead young players to, “forego a clear path to first team Champ/premier footy?” Nobody, that’s who!**

**unless it was CP Scouse, Mario or TonyBologna who I’ve mercifully ignored.

My initial post had two distinct parts. One of which was ...
f*uck it. don't care enough to explain myself. I'm sure I'm insane and illogical and out of f*ucks.

 

[Falastur]

Thanks. So Jack is one, then?

I just double-checked the rules and I was correct. Yes, Jack is HG for Middlesboro.

 

[dummyrun]

The rule, to the best of my knowledge, is that a player must have played 3+ years of academy football registered to an English club to count as HG. Doesn't matter if they were 10 or 18, it all counts

This is right as far as English competitions go. Here's the rule for the Premier League:

A “Home Grown Player” is defined as a player who, irrespective of their nationality or age, has been registered with any association football club affiliated to the FA or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or non-continuous, of three seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which they turn 21) (A.1.81).

And here's the EFL rule for the Championship:

33.9 ‘Home Grown Player’ shall mean a Player who irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with:-

33.9.1 his current Club; and/or

33.9.2 a Club and/or any other football club affiliated to the Football Association or the Football Association of Wales, for a period, continuous or not of three Seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the Season during which he turns 21). For the purposes of this definition of Home Grown Player only, a Season will be deemed to commence on the date on which the first Transfer Window in that Season closes and expire on the date of the final League Match of the Season.

 

[dummyrun]

But he wouldn't meet UEFA's homegrown rule for Champions/Europa League rosters:

A “club-trained player” is defined as a player who, between the age of 15 and 21, irrespective of their age or nationality, has been registered with their current club for a period, continuous or non-continuous, of three seasons or of 36 months between the ages of 15 and 21.

An “association trained” player fulfils the same criteria but with another club, or clubs, in the same association.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

But he wouldn't meet UEFA's homegrown rule for Champions/Europa League rosters:

A “club-trained player” is defined as a player who, between the age of 15 and 21, irrespective of their age or nationality, has been registered with their current club for a period, continuous or non-continuous, of three seasons or of 36 months between the ages of 15 and 21.

An “association trained” player fulfils the same criteria but with another club, or clubs, in the same association.

Tag me when you link the Medium post.

In all seriousness, useful stuff.

 

[dummyrun]

Tag me when you link the Medium post.

In all seriousness, useful stuff.

You should follow me on Twitter, I've always wanted to figure out how the mute button works.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

You should follow me on Twitter, I've always wanted to figure out how the mute button works.

Probably a Medium post on it somewhere.