Anti-ref Chants

[Vires]

Do you really want to tell the club? I think keeping the club out of things is always better, you cant run to thing and complain about these things, the result will be the club imposing all kinds of things and exerting control over the supporters , we do not want that, Dont run to the club , settle it amongst ourselves.

Well from an outsiders prospective as im not a member of the third rail it appears that TR has zero control over its supporters. No capos, no leadership, no... nothing.

It is funny that their mission statement reads:

"The Third Rail accepts all people regardless of race, age, gender, creed or sexual orientation."

Kind of not whats being reported as being heard coming out of their membership only section.

 

[Trone]

i agree with what you are saying there certainly were no capos and no leadership or fan organization at the game. With that being said we cant run to the club and complain about the supporters groups after the first game. This is a supporter issue not a club issue, believe me, we do not want the club micro managing the supporters. Best to try to handle amongst ourselves first.

 

[wolnutz]

Thanks for all your responses, all. I'm glad I'm not alone in wanting to deal with this stuff.

I know there's been a discussion about Capos for the three supporters sections, and I think that might help. I might send this thread to the Third Rail (I've messaged them through their Facebook page to some success.)

Maybe there's something the lines of a print-outs fans could hand out to their section. I went to BU for college, and the fan section for hockey games was basically an MLS supporters section. It'd be a flyer handed out to everybody, with basic information on players to look out for on the opposing teams, a suggestion of chants, both general and game specific, and a reminder not to use offensive language. For example, they'd mention that Scott Darling was terrible, and a suggestion of "Oh my darling, oh my darling, oh my darling, you're a sieve." It was great, and Scott Darling flipped us off.

There was a huge problem with a "[Goalie], you're gay!" which eventually got an addendum of a Seinfeld-esque "not that there's anything wrong with that," but the section really put it's foot down, and the chant finally disappeared.

BU's version was called "The Dirty Laundry List," but we could all figure out a good name for NYCFC.

 

[Vires]

i agree with what you are saying there certainly were no capos and no leadership or fan organization at the game. With that being said we cant run to the club and complain about the supporters groups after the first game. This is a supporter issue not a club issue, believe me, we do not want the club micro managing the supporters. Best to try to handle amongst ourselves first.

I agree TR should handle it themselves, not the club. Im just not sure there are any structures in place to effectively handle this issue.

 

[P Polef]

Super, super happy this issue was raised. Props to wolnutz. I agree that TR and other supporters clubs are a good first look, because they're the ones who are actively trying to start the chants and will be able to put the social pressure on that's necessary to stop it. Plus, it's usually one part of the stadium where these chants start anyway, by many accounts, so that's the place to target. While I doubt the club is willing or able to do anything about it unless it got so bad as to garner media attention—which I'm sure it never would—bringing it to their attention is vital if only to show them what kind of environment we as fans want. But people who feel this way should also make sure they're heard as long as it's safe to do so. A simple "Come on, pal" would hopefully be enough to make people think twice.

 

[JayH]

Thanks for raising this. There is no place for chants like this that are offensive, discriminatory or inappropriate (this includes even simply too much of the profanity). I would hate to give folks an opportunity to believe what happens to also be unfair stereotypes and generalizations about New Yorkers as being obnoxious, ignorant and crass. Nor are chants like these even witty, creative or funny, but instead are embarassing and unimpressive. Hopefully the supporter groups will police this some, as it could become a problem. We also don't want the networks to cut the mics on the supporter sections on the televised broadcasts as we should show the world watching how great our support is (and listening on television also happens to be a good way for folks not in attendance to pick up some of the lyrics as well).

 

[wolnutz]

Can we crowdsource contacts for the various Supporters Groups? I agree that this should start with them, not Yankee Stadium or NYCFC.

Does anybody know members for Bronx, Brown Bag, HoO, TR, etc., either on the forum, or social media, or emails, to show the concerns about offensive chants?

 

[Kubah]

NYCFC and its supporters are going to have a target on their back from Day 1. Why make it easy for them? You know that they will love to write articles like the recent American Outlaw one. Even though that article admits to be talking about a few bad apples, all of AO looks bad because leadership has not responded appropriately to offensive chants/behavior.

Besides the bad publicity, you should want the great atmosphere from Sunday to be enjoyed by ALL the fans. So let's nip it at the bud. I agree that this is another good reason for capos. Without organization, people will chant what they want and it will representative of all NYCFC supporters.

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

Well from an outsiders prospective as im not a member of the third rail it appears that TR has zero control over its supporters. No capos, no leadership, no... nothing.

It is funny that their mission statement reads:

"The Third Rail accepts all people regardless of race, age, gender, creed or sexual orientation."

Kind of not whats being reported as being heard coming out of their membership only section.

I don't know all of their leaders --

Thanks for all your responses, all. I'm glad I'm not alone in wanting to deal with this stuff.

I know there's been a discussion about Capos for the three supporters sections, and I think that might help. I might send this thread to the Third Rail (I've messaged them through their Facebook page to some success.)

Maybe there's something the lines of a print-outs fans could hand out to their section. I went to BU for college, and the fan section for hockey games was basically an MLS supporters section. It'd be a flyer handed out to everybody, with basic information on players to look out for on the opposing teams, a suggestion of chants, both general and game specific, and a reminder not to use offensive language. For example, they'd mention that Scott Darling was terrible, and a suggestion of "Oh my darling, oh my darling, oh my darling, you're a sieve." It was great, and Scott Darling flipped us off.

There was a huge problem with a "[Goalie], you're gay!" which eventually got an addendum of a Seinfeld-esque "not that there's anything wrong with that," but the section really put it's foot down, and the chant finally disappeared.

BU's version was called "The Dirty Laundry List," but we could all figure out a good name for NYCFC.

That flyer -- with the chants, etc. -- would be good not only for those in the supporters section but to everyone. Perhaps they could post the flyer in the NYCFC supporters forum?

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

Can we crowdsource contacts for the various Supporters Groups? I agree that this should start with them, not Yankee Stadium or NYCFC.

Does anybody know members for Bronx, Brown Bag, HoO, TR, etc., either on the forum, or social media, or emails, to show the concerns about offensive chants?

I have tried to list the main points of contact for each supporters group in a thread entitled Nycfc Supporters Group / Social Club Role Call

 

[wolnutz]

That flyer -- with the chants, etc. -- would be good not only for those in the supporters section but to everyone. Perhaps they could post the flyer in the NYCFC supporters forum?

I assume handing out flyers in Yankee Stadium/away games as random attendees is going to be frowned upon, so it seems like something the supporters groups, who have some contact with NYCFC staffers, could coordinate. I'm happy to work on something on a Flyer/Chant thing (I am a stand-up comedian and work in comedy writing) with jokes and chant ideas for each game.

I don't know if it's going to work for all the Supporters Groups, especially if they want different chants. (Which seems counter-intuitive, and makes the SGs impossible to here, but that seems to be a much bigger issue than simply stamping out indecent language and insults)

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

I assume handing out flyers in Yankee Stadium/away games as random attendees is going to be frowned upon. I'm happy to work on something on a Flyer/Chant thing (I am a stand-up comedian and work in comedy writing) with jokes and chant ideas for each game.

I don't know if it's going to work for all the Supporters Groups, especially if they want different chants. (Which seems counter-intuitive, and makes the SGs impossible to here, but that seems to be a much bigger issue than simply stamping out indecent language and insults)

That's why I wanted it posted on the board; so the lyrics of the selected songs could be seen by fans in neighboring sections.

 

[wolnutz]

That's why I wanted it posted on the board; so the lyrics of the selected songs could be seen by fans in neighboring sections.

Oh, totally. It could be posted anywhere. But it'd have to just be chants and ideas that all SGs could, in theory, agree on.

 

[JayH]

I think most importantly the main contact folks for the supporter groups should be proactive on this. Be as vociferous, wild, and loud as you want to be. Be fun, clever and creative (even obnoxious) with your chants. But leave out the profanity and anything unnecessarily offensive.

 

[Goodfella]

Can we crowdsource contacts for the various Supporters Groups? I agree that this should start with them, not Yankee Stadium or NYCFC.

Does anybody know members for Bronx, Brown Bag, HoO, TR, etc., either on the forum, or social media, or emails, to show the concerns about offensive chants?

Bronx Football Social Club sits in 234 and we don't tolerate sexist, racist or homophobic chants, nor were there any in our area. We did chant a few things to the play on the pitch i.e. to Juan Agudelo "You had to come home, You had come home, You can't play in Europe, You had to come home" & "Red-Bull Re-Ject" & "New York City" repeated. We did do "I need a rope, a tree, to hang the referee" but that was the harshest. We're not into doing songs the whole game. That's why we're a Social Club not a supporters club.

 

[Goodfella]

and to be fair, we use some profanity. It happens when guys/gals have a few, but its not onerous and we would adapt if surrounded by little ones, which we're not. There is a family section available, after all

 

[Kubah]

and to be fair, we use some profanity. It happens when guys/gals have a few, but its not onerous and we would adapt if surrounded by little ones, which we're not. There is a family section available, after all

I think cursing is different. I admit to liking the "N-Y-C ain't nothing to fuck with" WuTang remix, but I wouldn't want to hear it all game. Actually that's a good example of a chant with cursing that doesn't demean anyone.

By chanting "the ref has two dads", you are saying that being gay is wrong. Offensive, even though it has no cursing.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

Let's trust that the guys who can't send out membership cards can stop drunk bros from shouting hate speech. This is definitely a club matter.

 

[wolnutz]

We did do "I need a rope, a tree, to hang the referee" but that was the harshest.

I'd think that a rant like that is actually racist, and I don't think invoking lynching is the best way to go, but I'm a white dude, so I can't speak for the semiotics for a chant like that. I just can't imagine that you'd use that chant if there was a black referee, and if that gives you pause, it's probably best not to use it at all.

I hope it didn't seem like I was accusing you or the BFSC for indecent chants, and if it did, I apologize. I just think there are a number of fans (hopefully small) who don't know where to draw the line when it comes to offensive language. I think cursing (let's just use the Seven Dirty Words as a baseline, even thought the c-word is problematic,) completely has its place in chants and songs, especially as in a Supporters Sections, and not, as you said, family seating.

I think the worry is about chants that would make new fans uncomfortable and not want to support NYCFC. Supporters Groups and Social clubs are about exactly that, about building an inclusive community for new and established fans for the soccer team we all love. If anything yelled or done makes a potential new fan not want to attend games or support the club, due to a perceived bias that "these fans hate me for my race/sexuality/etc," then I think that defeats the point of even having these type of groups.

Even if it's not a problem for the BFSC yet, I think we're all asking is that groups be pro-active about reminding their members that this type of language is unacceptable, before it becomes intrenched as a tradition that we're all embarrassed by.

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

I think when the broader stadium engages in some chants and songs, as can happen in the Pacific Northwest or Toronto, it can be great, even opponent intimidating, environment. I hope that's the ultimate goal because I want to help make Yankee Stadium a place where opponents struggle to play well.