New York Cosmos surive & move to Coney Island

[RockShrimp]

The schadenfreude here is largely because the Cosmos of the 1970s and the current reboot are both victims of their own self-importance, ideological stubbornness, and fiscal irresponsibility. If you look at how they relaunched the team, and what they focused on, they were insanely overconfident in the ability of the brand legacy to keep them afloat.

No one wants to see American soccer leagues fail, but the NASL and *especially* the Cosmos and their fans have been very smug how the league is somehow morally superior to MLS because the single entity structure with salary caps is evil/stupid and won't lead to better US performance. That last position isn't *necessarily* wrong, but MLS emerged as it did because of a pragmatic assessment that it was the only way to build a sustainable 1st tier soccer league in the US given the current popularity of the sport. Is it the "right" way to build a soccer league according to purists? Who the fuck cares?


I am not happy to see another space for pro-soccer in the US fail, but I do feel a sense of satisfaction watching them be hoisted by their own petard.

I'll add that because I don't live in New York maybe I can't relate to NYCFC fans seemingly blindly hating every other New York team.

*I hate the Red Bulls but not the Cosmos

(edit for grammar)

 

[Keith Putnam]

The New York Cosmos are/were a historic team.

Not this iteration of it. Despite their name this team has only existed for a few years and has no history to mourn. That doesn't mean I don't feel for their fans.

I have plenty of issues with the MLS, but once it was established the resurrection of the NASL was a hubristic pipe dream.

Who knows, if the remaining NASL teams get absorbed into USL, maybe the USSF will end up giving USL 1D status simply due to size and then who'll be laughing?

 

[adam]

The schadenfreude here is largely because the Cosmos of the 1970s and the current reboot are both victims of their self-importance, ideological stubbornness, and fiscal irresponsibility. If you look at how they relaunched the team, and what they focused on, they were insanely overconfident in the ability of the brand legacy to keep them afloat.

No one wants to see American soccer leagues fail, but the NASL and *especially* the Cosmos and their fans have been insanely smug how the league is somehow morally superior was to MLS because the single entity structure with salary caps is evil/stupid and won't lead to better US performance. That last position isn't *necessarily* wrong, but MLS emerged as it did because of a pragmatic assessment that it was the only way to build a sustainable 1st tier soccer league in the US given the current popularity of the sport. Is it the "right" way to build a soccer league according to purists? Who the fuck cares?


I am not happy to see another space for pro-soccer in the US fail, but I do feel a sense of satisfaction watching them be hoisted by their own petard.

Totally agree. This is bad for free market capitalist soccer (at least in the moment), but will be a turning point for soccer in the US for the future. The single entity system is what's kept the MLS alive for the last 20 years. Now with the USL and the MLS's relationship forged and no competition, we may begin to see some exponential growth of the sport in this country with a coordinated marketing effort. The first change I want to see is the USL & the MLS forging a TV deal to give more USOC coverage. There will be a vacuum without any NASL matches to broadcast, and that could be the perfect space filler.

 

[RockShrimp]

Agreed - in the still emerging niche, cooperation between the leagues is more important than competition. We need to learn from our sports history as well as global... AFL + NFL. AL + NL. ABA + NBA. There's no TOP TIER league competition. Our sports teams are not organically grown, they're business investments. Profitability matters.

There's hurdles, especially when you look at the different objectives of an MLS2 USL team vs. an independent one (for example, there's a real concern that MLS-owned USL team may sacrifice competitiveness with older, mid-level players in order to develop younger players for their main club. If that helps keep USL solvent until there's an audience for minor league soccer, is it the worst thing ever? I don't think so). I imagine at some point down the road, USL could split into an upper / lower division that can help address this, though I don't know if there's even a good example of a pro-sports league here that isn't set up in the Majors - Minors system. It can work in smaller markets maybe, but you probably can't support both a top tier *and* a lower tier team in the same location. Even in a market that can support two teams, the league will be important. NYCFC didn't cannibalize RB, but both can claim to be in the *top tier*.

ETA: And *especially* if the 2nd tier league team is spending competitively with the top tier league teams. Poku went from ~$70,000 to ~$350,000 in the move from NYCFC to Miami... How does that make any sense given how financially insolvent the league seems to be? I don't really know how the Cyclones are faring, but maybe that's a good example. Minor league baseball has a clear understanding of where it fits and who its target audience is (people with kids & people who can't afford bringing those kids to major league baseball).

Anyway, the point is that clinging to how things "should" work is silly if we live in the real world, where spheres have mass and are affected by friction.

Totally agree. This is bad for free market capitalist soccer (at least in the moment), but will be a turning point for soccer in the US for the future. The single entity system is what's kept the MLS alive for the last 20 years. Now with the USL and the MLS's relationship forged and no competition, we may begin to see some exponential growth of the sport in this country with a coordinated marketing effort. The first change I want to see is the USL & the MLS forging a TV deal to give more USOC coverage. There will be a vacuum without any NASL matches to broadcast, and that could be the perfect space filler.

 

[Ulrich]

Not this iteration of it. Despite their name this team has only existed for a few years and has no history to mourn. That doesn't mean I don't feel for their fans.

I have plenty of issues with the MLS, but once it was established the resurrection of the NASL was a hubristic pipe dream.

Who knows, if the remaining NASL teams get absorbed into USL, maybe the USSF will end up giving USL 1D status simply due to size and then who'll be laughing?

The USL cannot obtain D1 status - impossible - with the except of a few, their stadiums do not even come close to meeting the required minimum capacity.... a non-starter in the discussions.

 

[jerseyhotspur]

They did. MLS was unsatisfied with their bid (apparently Cosmos did not want to pay the whole expansion fee and wanted control of their brand)

if that's true, then I applaud the Cosmos for trying to protect their brand.

 

[Fantazma]

The USL cannot obtain D1 status - impossible - with the except of a few, their stadiums do not even come close to meeting the required minimum capacity.... a non-starter in the discussions.

not D1 but certainly D2.....i recently heard a podcast with the president of USL ( on a NASL themed podcast lol) kind of alluding to wanting to create a USL 2 division (third tier?) . This may seem to make sense and maybe all the reserve teams go there and the independent clubs stay in USL.

this may also explain why a good of amateur NPSL teams are joining the PDL....this way USL can see which teams are capable to going at least pro in USL/USL2.

also more rumors:

https://twitter.com/x/status/804004426058989568

 

[Keith Putnam]

The USL cannot obtain D1 status - impossible - with the except of a few, their stadiums do not even come close to meeting the required minimum capacity.... a non-starter in the discussions.

It was a joke, man.

 

[jerseyhotspur]

assuming the Cosmos and MLS could make a deal . . . would 3 NY teams be good or bad for MLS (or the growth of soccer in the tri-state area)?

I want to say yes.

 

[Fantazma]

assuming the Cosmos and MLS could make a deal . . . would 3 NY teams be good or bad for MLS (or the growth of soccer in the tri-state area)?

I want to say yes.

stadiums are the issue...the support potential is there.

 

[Gotham Gator]

It looks like USL will become a much larger entity between the fold-in of NASL teams and the market for professional soccer in second/third tier cities. It will be interesting to see how they set that up. I wonder if they will go with pro/rel between the 2nd and 3rd tiers. It's also possible that they do something that's more regionally focused to save on transportation costs.

One party that should be growing is NCAA men's soccer, but they won't change the rules that keep it from being more popular (e.g. spring only season, unlimited subs) and Title IX basically kills any chance that programs without a men's team will start one.

 

[adam]

It looks like USL will become a much larger entity between the fold-in of NASL teams and the market for professional soccer in second/third tier cities. It will be interesting to see how they set that up. I wonder if they will go with pro/rel between the 2nd and 3rd tiers. It's also possible that they do something that's more regionally focused to save on transportation costs.

One party that should be growing is NCAA men's soccer, but they won't change the rules that keep it from being more popular (e.g. spring only season, unlimited subs) and Title IX basically kills any chance that programs without a men's team will start one.

USL teams should just offer local housing, food, scholarships & a stipend for 18-23 year old players to their local universities. Let them work their school schedule around practice times (even if it takes an extra year with a light course load). And with weekend matches, those should never interfere anyway. Kids get to go to school, live with 2-3 other players the same age, and play pro level soccer for 4-5 years. It's a win-win for everyone and a workaround the NCAA's antiquated system. Even good PR making sure athletes graduate, since most won't make the MLS.

 

[RockShrimp]

if that's true, then I applaud the Cosmos for trying to protect their brand.

Protecting it right into the grave?

 

[BxLio91]

 

[Falastur]

If all of the NASL teams moved to USL right now, in one form or another, how many teams would that put USL at? Don't they already have about 22? They've got to be reaching critical mass soon, no? A second division is virtually inevitable.

Nope Let them die

The only problem with doing that is that nothing stops anyone else from just magically resurrecting the name and pretending that they then have the right to claim their eight (*scoff*) previous titles as heritage.

 

[BxLio91]

If all of the NASL teams moved to USL right now, in one form or another, how many teams would that put USL at? Don't they already have about 22? They've got to be reaching critical mass soon, no? A second division is virtually inevitable.



The only problem with doing that is that nothing stops anyone else from just magically resurrecting the name and pretending that they then have the right to claim their eight (*scoff*) previous titles as heritage.

Fine. Buy them and bury the file in the file room.

 

[jerseyhotspur]

One party that should be growing is NCAA men's soccer, but they won't change the rules that keep it from being more popular (e.g. spring only season, unlimited subs) . . .

Soccer is one of the few sports in this world that the NCAA will have a difficult time corrupting. I hope NCAA soccer becomes irrelevant with the growth of USL and MLS academies.

[RANT]The major pipeline into the NFL or NBA is the NCAA (baseball and hockey have a robust minor league system to funnel talent to the MLB and NHL), but if you want to make soccer your career in this country, all roads don't go through the NCAA, thankfully. I think it's appalling the amount of money is generated by college football and basketball while the student / athletes are paid nothing (college athletes should paid as employees and participate in revenue sharing with the option of actually going to school). The highest paid employees of colleges and universities should NOT be head coaches or athletic directors nor should the largest stadiums in the country be COLLEGE stadiums.[/RANT]

 

[Fantazma]

Soccer is one of the few sports in this world that the NCAA will have a difficult time corrupting. I hope NCAA soccer becomes irrelevant with the growth of USL and MLS academies.

[RANT]The major pipeline into the NFL or NBA is the NCAA (baseball and hockey have a robust minor league system to funnel talent to the MLB and NHL), but if you want to make soccer your career in this country, all roads don't go through the NCAA, thankfully. I think it's appalling the amount of money is generated by college football and basketball while the student / athletes are paid nothing (college athletes should paid as employees and participate in revenue sharing with the option of actually going to school). The highest paid employees of colleges and universities should NOT be head coaches or athletic directors nor should the largest stadiums in the country be COLLEGE stadiums.[/RANT]

i do think that its gonna have to be one or the other...not both but with the not so great salaries many will still probably go to college.

 

[BxLio91]

Should be a familiar name to many here

https://twitter.com/x/status/804074463218298880

 

[Fantazma]

Should be a familiar name to many here

https://twitter.com/x/status/804074463218298880

people on reddit are ripping this...some think its "official"