Fair. Trying to reconcile his ability with PVs philosophy can go in circles. Mac can ball. He should be better included. Even still, he keeps performing.
Orlando Postmatch
- Thread starter NYCFC_Dan
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Fair. Trying to reconcile his ability with PVs philosophy can go in circles. Mac can ball. He should be better included. Even still, he keeps performing.
Let's get the Pirlo stuff out of the way first.
I wouldn't put it quite as pessimistically as
NickA did, but I think overall I agree that Yani and Andrea had similar overall contributions. I'd rate them both a 7. They just do it in very different ways. Pirlo is all reading the game and positioning. He didn't find a lot of open guys today. But also Barnes stood on him almost every moment. Felt to me like he took him out of the game, which is some form of offensive contribution. Yani, on the other hand, is far more athletic but his reading of the game and positional discipline aren't quite there yet. He makes silly fouls too often. Also, nobody is man-marking him, so that gives his team mates less space. But he's gonna be a great player for sure. I could see him at a Porto-type team. He made marginally more penetrating passes than Pirlo, but the game had opened up a bit by then.
In all honesty I'm with Vieira on this one. We should just be happy that we have two great defensive midfield options. If we play the 3-2-2-3 again, I might say play both of them (to meld thought and action, as
Angela Miller alluded to) and have Maxi and Ring play in front of them. The amount of interchanging, understanding and grit in there would drive the opposition crazy. That's an unfuckwithable central midfield to me.
I came out of the game feeling disappointed but not frustrated. After reflecting on this a bit, it's because none of the major factors are super troubling IMO.
Firstly, Wallace and McNamara was a first time experiment that was a complete disaster, and Vieira is aware of it. The defensive understanding between Tommy and Rodney just wasn't there on the first goal, and Rodney's inexperience defending high balls was shown up on the second. It's new. We'll adjust. Actually, we kind of already did. When we swapped Tommy and Jack, we got much stronger defensively on the left hand side. Hats off to Vieira for finding a quick fix. Unfortunately, I think the cross from the second came down Tommy's side, so I think he's just a bit of a defensive liability for us now.
Secondly, Joe Bendik has had two freak performances against us now and that's not gonna be a persistent problem over the course of the season. That's what makes them freak performances.
Thirdly, the officiating was horrible and prevented us from building any fluency, which plays right into Orlando's hands. I've never seen the bar for a foul move that much in a game before. Also he was crooked as fuck.
I think there were a decent number of positives to take out of the game.
I think Moralez may have had his best game for us yet. The timing of his runs and his interpretation of space are unreal. Where Pirlo picks out passes you only see after he's made them, Maxi finds space that doesn't seem to exist until he's already in it. Possibly because he doesn't take up an awful amount of space
His assist for Villa was a work of art.
Also, it's such a privilege to watch Villa score goals like that. Other players will score goals that beautiful once or twice in their career. He'll do it 5 or 6 times a season. Aside from that, he was the only person alive for us in the first half, I felt. Everybody else was kinda going through the motions. Dude is smoldering right now, I look forward to seeing him fully catch fire.
Stertzer and Camargo were solid subs. Stertzer is kinda clunky on the ball but he gets in the way and makes runs that unsettle defenders. I thought it was a decent idea to put him on. We just need to see way more of Camargo. I would have had him in there for Tommy earlier. Concur with
Midas Mulligan - don't see how riding pine can be helping him settle.
All in all, that loss hurt, but after thinking on it a while, I'm not super concerned. Football is a funny old game, where results aren't always highly correlated with overall performances, thereby driving us insane and infatuating us over and over again. Every hook has a variable reward.
The only thing I'm left wondering is whether we'll continue trying to invest in the 3-2-2-3 / 3-4-2-1. I was skeptical before watching Chelsea and Spurs play it, and before seeing how ill-suited Wallace is to LB duties. Throw Brillant in the center and play Chanot on the right. Get Maxi, Ring, Yani and Pirlo in the middle. Hold the ball in midfield and get those lines really tight and it just might work.
I wouldn't put it quite as pessimistically as
NickA did, but I think overall I agree that Yani and Andrea had similar overall contributions. I'd rate them both a 7. They just do it in very different ways. Pirlo is all reading the game and positioning. He didn't find a lot of open guys today. But also Barnes stood on him almost every moment. Felt to me like he took him out of the game, which is some form of offensive contribution. Yani, on the other hand, is far more athletic but his reading of the game and positional discipline aren't quite there yet. He makes silly fouls too often. Also, nobody is man-marking him, so that gives his team mates less space. But he's gonna be a great player for sure. I could see him at a Porto-type team. He made marginally more penetrating passes than Pirlo, but the game had opened up a bit by then.In all honesty I'm with Vieira on this one. We should just be happy that we have two great defensive midfield options. If we play the 3-2-2-3 again, I might say play both of them (to meld thought and action, as
Angela Miller alluded to) and have Maxi and Ring play in front of them. The amount of interchanging, understanding and grit in there would drive the opposition crazy. That's an unfuckwithable central midfield to me.I came out of the game feeling disappointed but not frustrated. After reflecting on this a bit, it's because none of the major factors are super troubling IMO.
Firstly, Wallace and McNamara was a first time experiment that was a complete disaster, and Vieira is aware of it. The defensive understanding between Tommy and Rodney just wasn't there on the first goal, and Rodney's inexperience defending high balls was shown up on the second. It's new. We'll adjust. Actually, we kind of already did. When we swapped Tommy and Jack, we got much stronger defensively on the left hand side. Hats off to Vieira for finding a quick fix. Unfortunately, I think the cross from the second came down Tommy's side, so I think he's just a bit of a defensive liability for us now.
Secondly, Joe Bendik has had two freak performances against us now and that's not gonna be a persistent problem over the course of the season. That's what makes them freak performances.
Thirdly, the officiating was horrible and prevented us from building any fluency, which plays right into Orlando's hands. I've never seen the bar for a foul move that much in a game before. Also he was crooked as fuck.
I think there were a decent number of positives to take out of the game.
I think Moralez may have had his best game for us yet. The timing of his runs and his interpretation of space are unreal. Where Pirlo picks out passes you only see after he's made them, Maxi finds space that doesn't seem to exist until he's already in it. Possibly because he doesn't take up an awful amount of space
His assist for Villa was a work of art.Also, it's such a privilege to watch Villa score goals like that. Other players will score goals that beautiful once or twice in their career. He'll do it 5 or 6 times a season. Aside from that, he was the only person alive for us in the first half, I felt. Everybody else was kinda going through the motions. Dude is smoldering right now, I look forward to seeing him fully catch fire.
Stertzer and Camargo were solid subs. Stertzer is kinda clunky on the ball but he gets in the way and makes runs that unsettle defenders. I thought it was a decent idea to put him on. We just need to see way more of Camargo. I would have had him in there for Tommy earlier. Concur with
Midas Mulligan - don't see how riding pine can be helping him settle.All in all, that loss hurt, but after thinking on it a while, I'm not super concerned. Football is a funny old game, where results aren't always highly correlated with overall performances, thereby driving us insane and infatuating us over and over again. Every hook has a variable reward.
The only thing I'm left wondering is whether we'll continue trying to invest in the 3-2-2-3 / 3-4-2-1. I was skeptical before watching Chelsea and Spurs play it, and before seeing how ill-suited Wallace is to LB duties. Throw Brillant in the center and play Chanot on the right. Get Maxi, Ring, Yani and Pirlo in the middle. Hold the ball in midfield and get those lines really tight and it just might work.
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Fuck Orlando, fuck the ref and fuck playing TMAC and Pirlo at the same time.
Interesting how differently we see the game. That's quite natural, though, I think.
IMO Villa didn't do much but took his goal very well. Harrison wasn't in the game until the last half an hour. Ring didn't put a foot wrong, and had one of his strongest games, albeit only defensively. Wallace had his most silent game so far (he's clearly carrying an injury). Chanot and Callens were the main culprits for the first goal, as they completely forgot about Larin. Johnson didn't have much to do except to pick the ball twice out of the net. Herrera didn't show much yet, although there's clearly potential there.
IMO Villa didn't do much but took his goal very well. Harrison wasn't in the game until the last half an hour. Ring didn't put a foot wrong, and had one of his strongest games, albeit only defensively. Wallace had his most silent game so far (he's clearly carrying an injury). Chanot and Callens were the main culprits for the first goal, as they completely forgot about Larin. Johnson didn't have much to do except to pick the ball twice out of the net. Herrera didn't show much yet, although there's clearly potential there.
Really? We only created our two chances in the first half once we started playing down the right, through Harrison.
OKAY THERE !! You need to take your Attitude to your friends at the Top Brass ! You seem as said to have this great free relationship with them . You among many on this forum are who I was talking about when I asked those questions in that other thread . Look at my review of the game above . This might Give You a Clue as to what's going on .
OH and By The Way a thread ends when it ends Not When You Declare It ! THANK YOU !!
Havent seen the highlights, but i did pick this scoreline. Orlando and nyrb are our bogey teams.
Kreis would have a wry smile on him today for sure.
Kreis would have a wry smile on him today for sure.
R
roxfontaine im sorry. It if you think that a Plan B for this squad should be developed around Tommy McNamara, that's lunacy. He's, at best, a complimentary player on a very good team. His role has been appropriate this year. Spot starter, usually a sub.
I Can see this little Kitty Kitty Hisses, Spits, Bites, Scratches, and Growls . PLEASE Be aware of this when approaching it !!!!
I appreciate the sentiment and agree with your first point.
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll find common ground on TMac's talent. For me, he's not the sort of transcendent player that must be fit in at all costs. But Lampard wasn't either.
However, I think yesterday would have been the right time to give him a go underneath Villa in a 3-4-2-1. What I don't like or want is him in a situation where he needs to defend someone or where he is involved in the buildup play. He's a poor defender, even though he tries hard. He is just so unathletic and slow. And he's unreliable on the ball and with his decision making in the middle of the field. So there are instances where I'd play him, I'd just institute s "don't pass to Tommy until we're within 25 yards of goal" rule.
I agree with all of the many words here, but I don't agree with the idea that I think is implicit, i.e., Pirlo should continue to start. Maybe it's backup quarterback disease, but damnit, I want to find out what we look like with three active midfielders.Let's get the Pirlo stuff out of the way first.
I wouldn't put it quite as pessimistically as
In all honesty I'm with Vieira on this one. We should just be happy that we have two great defensive midfield options. If we play the 3-2-2-3 again, I might say play both of them (to meld thought and action, as
I came out of the game feeling disappointed but not frustrated. After reflecting on this a bit, it's because none of the major factors are super troubling IMO.
Firstly, Wallace and McNamara was a first time experiment that was a complete disaster, and Vieira is aware of it. The defensive understanding between Tommy and Rodney just wasn't there on the first goal, and Rodney's inexperience defending high balls was shown up on the second. It's new. We'll adjust. Actually, we kind of already did. When we swapped Tommy and Jack, we got much stronger defensively on the left hand side. Hats off to Vieira for finding a quick fix. Unfortunately, I think the cross from the second came down Tommy's side, so I think he's just a bit of a defensive liability for us now.
Secondly, Joe Bendik has had two freak performances against us now and that's not gonna be a persistent problem over the course of the season. That's what makes them freak performances.
Thirdly, the officiating was horrible and prevented us from building any fluency, which plays right into Orlando's hands. I've never seen the bar for a foul move that much in a game before. Also he was crooked as fuck.
I think there were a decent number of positives to take out of the game.
I think Moralez may have had his best game for us yet. The timing of his runs and his interpretation of space are unreal. Where Pirlo picks out passes you only see after he's made them, Maxi finds space that doesn't seem to exist until he's already in it. Possibly because he doesn't take up an awful amount of space
Also, it's such a privilege to watch Villa score goals like that. Other players will score goals that beautiful once or twice in their career. He'll do it 5 or 6 times a season. Aside from that, he was the only person alive for us in the first half, I felt. Everybody else was kinda going through the motions. Dude is smoldering right now, I look forward to seeing him fully catch fire.
Stertzer and Camargo were solid subs. Stertzer is kinda clunky on the ball but he gets in the way and makes runs that unsettle defenders. I thought it was a decent idea to put him on. We just need to see way more of Camargo. I would have had him in there for Tommy earlier. Concur with
All in all, that loss hurt, but after thinking on it a while, I'm not super concerned. Football is a funny old game, where results aren't always highly correlated with overall performances, thereby driving us insane and infatuating us over and over again. Every hook has a variable reward.
The only thing I'm left wondering is whether we'll continue trying to invest in the 3-2-2-3 / 3-4-2-1. I was skeptical before watching Chelsea and Spurs play it, and before seeing how ill-suited Wallace is to LB duties. Throw Brillant in the center and play Chanot on the right. Get Maxi, Ring, Yani and Pirlo in the middle. Hold the ball in midfield and get those lines really tight and it just might work.
I'm at the stage where I have to keep reminding myself that things that seem to have grave import are still based on really small sample sizes.
OTOH, soccer has a pretty short schedule, and small sample sizes can be statistically meaningless yet significant in the results. Bottom line is I'm still frustrated. I also really want the team to reverse just one area where it has had consistently bad results. Overall the team has improved year to year, but the areas where it really disappoints stay the same.
I can't help thnking that MR Miyagi would help Patrick Vieira. For those of you who don't know he was a wise Sensei in Southern California, that took a plucky, fish out of water kid from New Jersey under his wing. Daniel Son wanted to learn Karate, but wasn't sure if he was ready to commit fully to the practice. Mr Miyagi said (and I paraphrase) Daniel-son. Karate is like a highway, if you stand on one side of the highway, you are ok, you stand on the other side, you are ok, but if you stand in the middle, squash like grape. Karate same thing. Karate yes, ok. Karate, no. ok. But Karate maybe, squash just like grape.
NYCFC commits to 433, and gets the right personnel in the right spots, ok. Wants to play 343, ok. But if you try to squeeze your 433 personnel into a 343, squash just like grape.
NYCFC commits to 433, and gets the right personnel in the right spots, ok. Wants to play 343, ok. But if you try to squeeze your 433 personnel into a 343, squash just like grape.
No idea if that's actually true, but repped because I like the analogy.
A couple of notes from the highlights:
- Ring's fierce shot from the 2nd minute corner was omitted
- McNamara's "defending" in the 2nd goal was simply disasterous
- Bendik really is a good shot stopper, the added-time block from Villa was phenomenal
Outside the highlights:
- I don't think Larin would cut it in a top European league, as he doesn't seem to have the pace, although his strength and finishing are good (reminds of Yakubu), he would be quickly sussed out by top class defenders
- The referee yesterday was probably the worst I've seen for some time
- Moralez and Pirlo shouldn't be made to face a big and physical team like Orlando in the way they were yesterday
- Most of NYCFC's crosses were just terrible
(Playing some Football Manager) I'd have left McNamara out and put Moralez on the left wing, made Herrera and Pirlo play deeper, and Ring behind Villa. I believe a spine of Pirlo and Ring would have fed the flanks better.
So true. During intros I was like - ok, let's see how this plays out. Within 5 minutes I knew it was going to be a disaster. I was at the first base corner flag on his attacking side in the first half. He was so slow to track down balls and couldn't get out of Wallace's way. It was absurd. He basically took away that whole side of the field. Jack was in the zone and I'd have to imagine if there was ANY type of speed on the other side he would have been even better. In my eyes, Wallace has been better than Matarrita. Why fuck with that spot? If Viera wanted to put Tommy in so bad, should have went 3-4-2-1 or something like that. This was on Viera.
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Would be interested to see Maxi and Jack as forwards tucked underneath Villa. Get your width from Matarrita and ??? RJ Allen? Then play with 3 MFs if you must keep Pirlo on the field. Add Herrera and Ring.
He could be a club legend in Scotland with Rangers or Celtic.
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