Stadium Discussion

[KevinJRogers]

I don't think the Yankees or Steinbrenners hurt for cash flow. They're probably content to let the asset sit and appreciate and let it sell whenever it sells. Accelerating that just accelerates the cap gain tax.

You may very well be right about that, although of course the cap hit just grows with the valuation (at least in real dollar terms). But it well may be the case the franchise is already worth a lot more than they expected, so they're looking at it as a saleable asset instead of an investible one.

Not sure how Abu Dhabi would feel about that. They like to build.

Anyway, I'm sure the Steinbrenners aren't exactly hurting. I'm just trying to figure out why the hell they're dragging their feet on what looks like a dead-bang moneymaker to me. Why blow up the latest stadium deal over a few hundred parking spaces they're almost certainly not going to even need? The revenue looks like a pittance compared to the rest of the project.

If it wasn't an act of intentional sabotage, that's some serious nickel-and-diming. I just don't get it. Could they really be that small-bore and cheap?

 

[Gotham Gator]

You may very well be right about that, although of course the cap hit just grows with the valuation (at least in real dollar terms). But it well may be the case the franchise is already worth a lot more than they expected, so they're looking at it as a saleable asset instead of an investible one.

Not sure how Abu Dhabi would feel about that. They like to build.

Anyway, I'm sure the Steinbrenners aren't exactly hurting. I'm just trying to figure out why the hell they're dragging their feet on what looks like a dead-bang moneymaker to me. Why blow up the latest stadium deal over a few hundred parking spaces they're almost certainly not going to even need? The revenue looks like a pittance compared to the rest of the project.

If it wasn't an act of intentional sabotage, that's some serious nickel-and-diming. I just don't get it. Could they really be that small-bore and cheap?

This is directionally correct, and I have wondered whether the Yankees blew the deal up for some other reason - perhaps a reason that was shared by CFG. Maybe something like delaying this project for some obscure reason in order to allow another option to unfold.

 

[JayH]

This is directionally correct, and I have wondered whether the Yankees blew the deal up for some other reason - perhaps a reason that was shared by CFG. Maybe something like delaying this project for some obscure reason in order to allow another option to unfold.

Yes. It's ripping up the final agreement over a typo for some ulterior reason. It could have been some benefit to wait out the new admin, some development with a better suitor, etc. Hopefully the reason is a positive one (which I suspect is the case) rather than cold feet or bad faith.

 

[FredMertz]

I think I saw one estimate we'd be around $2 billion by the end of the decade. But that's contingent on us having our own park.

Also contingent on ever being able to draw 10,000 fans to a single game again.

 

[KevinJRogers]

Also contingent on ever being able to draw 10,000 fans to a single game again.

I'm sure we'd be fine in our own park, whether in Queens or the Bronx -- as long as ticket prices stay reasonable. (I also don't trust the Yankees in the greed department. LOL) It's not hard to see us filling a 26,000-seat stadium consistently. Not hard at all.

Anyway, this is from a few years ago, but the essentials of the MLS business landscape are the same. It's worth noting, Charlotte FC is now in business and drawing 30,000-plus. And there have been 22 new MLS stadiums built since the Crew opened theirs in 1999, the majority of them soccer-specific; the rest were designed to accomodate soccer along with other sports. LAFC, Inter Miami and Austin FC all had their own stadiums open in their inaugural seasons.

Major League Soccer’s Most Valuable Teams 2019: Atlanta Stays On Top As Expansion Fees, Sale Prices Surge (forbes.com)

It's just mind-boggling we are where we are. In a way, I hope there's some second-level strategy, or even skulduggery, involved. Otherwise it's just galactically stupid.

 

[Gotham Gator]

I'm sure we'd be fine in our own park, whether in Queens or the Bronx -- as long as ticket prices stay reasonable. (I also don't trust the Yankees in the greed department. LOL) It's not hard to see us filling a 26,000-seat stadium consistently. Not hard at all.

Exactly. The experience will be so much better once we have a proper soccer stadium. Barring some other issue - for example, a bad location or a ticket price hike, attendance should be fine.

It's just mind-boggling we are where we are. In a way, I hope there's some second-level strategy, or even skulduggery, involved. Otherwise it's just galactically stupid.

I suppose we can't eliminate the possibility that the Steinbrenners & their management are so myopically focused on the Yankees that they will object to even the tiniest issue that would negatively affect the franchise - even when the stakes for their other businesses are so high.

 

[Kjbert]

Are we now in the “assigning a conspiracy” stage of our stadium depression?

 

[danger]

I'm sure we'd be fine in our own park, whether in Queens or the Bronx -- as long as ticket prices stay reasonable. (I also don't trust the Yankees in the greed department. LOL) It's not hard to see us filling a 26,000-seat stadium consistently. Not hard at all.

Anyway, this is from a few years ago, but the essentials of the MLS business landscape are the same. It's worth noting, Charlotte FC is now in business and drawing 30,000-plus.

I would put us somewhere between DC (looking recently, their attendance #’s are 16-17,000 of 20k capacity, mind you they’re at the bottom of the table) and a Charlotte. So not really disagreeing with you, but somehow over the last number of years I have grown more disillusioned about the ceiling for gameday support here compared to the new stadiums and new franchises with stadiums.

Also re-sharing this from mgarbowski in the RSL match day thread where folks were also discussing attendance present and future:

It has been clear to me for a while that NYC has a remarkably low ceiling of support for this team. Even with a proper stadium and WC boost, we will max out below the support seen in other much smaller MLS cities. I think we'll fill a 20-28k stadium, but probably not 30-35k. It would be presentable, but not regularly sold out IMO.

ETA: even 20-28k might not sell out midweek or against lesser interest opponents.

 

[mgarbowski]

I would put us somewhere between DC (looking recently, their attendance #’s are 16-17,000 of 20k capacity, mind you they’re at the bottom of the table) and a Charlotte. So not really disagreeing with you, but somehow over the last number of years I have grown more disillusioned about the ceiling for gameday support here compared to the new stadiums and new franchises with stadiums.

Also re-sharing this from mgarbowski in the RSL match day thread where folks were also discussing attendance present and future:

I did an extremely deep dive analysis of all this -- the challenge of NYC and CFG's approach to marketing in NYC -- in 2017. Nothing in the last 4-5 years has led me to change my mind about any of it. It starts with this post, and then most the next 7 or 8 that follow.

The Challenge of Marketing NYCFC to NYC

We have 2 related but different discussions. 1. Why has attendance dropped (unless it didn't even drop per Seth); and 2. Why is NYC not killing it in attendance compared to other cities. I find the second more interesting. NYCFC is 5th, which is fine, but we're also larger than everyone else...

nycfcforums.com

If anything, I would expand on what I wrote back then with stuff along the lines of what Revfugee wrote yesterday. But I don't think any of what I wrote has failed to hold up. I mean, it could be wrong, but if so it was wrong then too.
ETA: one thing that changed since then is Man City has somewhat outgrown its big club but still outsider status. It doesn’t really change much about the rest.

 

[KevinJRogers]

Exactly. The experience will be so much better once we have a proper soccer stadium. Barring some other issue - for example, a bad location or a ticket price hike, attendance should be fine.


I suppose we can't eliminate the possibility that the Steinbrenners & their management are so myopically focused on the Yankees that they will object to even the tiniest issue that would negatively affect the franchise - even when the stakes for their other businesses are so high.

Myopia may indeed be the problem. They're not used, conceptually speaking, to managing multiple teams across a range of sports, just the verticals in a single sport. They may simply not see the potential here.

 

[KevinJRogers]

I would put us somewhere between DC (looking recently, their attendance #’s are 16-17,000 of 20k capacity, mind you they’re at the bottom of the table) and a Charlotte. So not really disagreeing with you, but somehow over the last number of years I have grown more disillusioned about the ceiling for gameday support here compared to the new stadiums and new franchises with stadiums.

Also re-sharing this from mgarbowski in the RSL match day thread where folks were also discussing attendance present and future:

All of that is firmly in the 'fair enough' category. We really won't know until it happens.

But if we look at league averages and where we were over the first couple seasons, something around a consistent 26,000 looks reasonable. In 2015 we started with over 16,000 founding season ticketholders and the average attendance over the first few games was not too far under 30,000. There was a lot of enthusiasm.

There's a little guesswork involved and Covid-19 has scrambled the picture quite a bit, but I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude the gradually declining attendance (which has still stayed above 20,000 on average) has a lot more to do with still playing at Yankee Stadium than anything else.

Obviously, I'm leaving stuff like marketing, community outreach, news coverage and broadcast television out. I'm not sure we've done enough in those areas, but aggressively looking to put keesters in the seats makes a big difference, too.

 

[Fantazma]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517563237973303296

 

[SoupInNYC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517563237973303296

Massive h/t to Joe_Cos for pointing out this podcast episode

 

[LionNYC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517563237973303296

F Randy Levine. F the Yankees. They want their parking spots above all else. They aren't helping make this happen.

 

[Fantazma]

F Randy Levine. F the Yankees. They want their parking spots above all else. They aren't helping make this happen.

in the bronx? no. however i just hope they are not going to butt in other potential spots in other boroughs as he claims.

 

[JayH]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517563237973303296

Maybe the can't help himself dig at dB suggests that waiting out the dB admin was indeed part of the last minute scuttle. (Although the back burner/front burner reference worries me).

 

[KevinJRogers]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517563237973303296

Not we, but they: "They're looking at sites all over the city." So, the Yankees don't even look at us as part of their organization. Which explains a lot.

Hopefully, that means they won't stand in the way going forward. All they care about is their return.

Sure sounds like the GAL site is dead, though.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Yankees care so much they let them play at Citi Field.

Just cut ties with Yankees, man. Enough is enough.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Citi Field is just such a nicer stadium. It's incredible how much better and more welcoming it is there.

 

[Shwafta]

Citi Field is just such a nicer stadium. It's incredible how much better and more welcoming it is there.

It feels so much more homely and, for lack of a better word, heimish. Also, parking was incredibly easy, much easier than Yankee Stadium. Super seamless from the highway into the parking lot. AND THE METAL DETECTORS WENT SO QUICKLY! Excellent production all-around by the stadium staff.