Stadium Discussion

  • Welcome to NYCFC Forums 2.0. Since completing our upgrade I've had a number of people request to make a donation. If you'd like to Donate you may do so via this Paypal link below. Thank you all for the support and your willingness to cobtribute.
Consider becoming a 'donor' member to help support the forums! Click Here To Upgrade

Where Do You Want The Stadium?

  • Manhattan

    Votes: 54 18.5%
  • Queens

    Votes: 82 28.1%
  • Brooklyn

    Votes: 14 4.8%
  • Staten Island

    Votes: 6 2.1%
  • Westchester

    Votes: 18 6.2%
  • The Bronx

    Votes: 105 36.0%
  • Long Island

    Votes: 5 1.7%
  • Dual-Boroughs

    Votes: 3 1.0%
  • Etihad Island

    Votes: 5 1.7%

  • Total voters
    292

Kjbert

Senior Member
Seasoned Supporter
Apr 24, 2014
10,175
15,259
303
34
Maybe they’re trying to woo Virgil Van Djik with the $475 million left over from Mumbai.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JayH

mgarbowski

Senior Member
Elite Donor
Donor
Seasoned Supporter
Jul 16, 2014
12,091
34,419
353
Queens, NY
mgarbowski.com

Long article that uses the Penn Station project as an example of how it is nearly impossible to complete big public infrastructure projects in NYC (and much of the country). Though the focus is on public projects, much of the structural and procedural obstacles would apply to any big project in NYC, especially if public land or financing or anything is involved. It is definitely relevant to the NYCFC stadium, which requires political cooperation due to the publicly financed garages on site, and potential alterations to highway ramps and MTA train station.

If you lean left/progressive, don't be put off by the snippet. The author leans left himself, and is trying to figure out how to solve a problem so people will trust the government to do more stuff progressives would like. But he also doesn't really have a solution.

TLDR: Robert Moses was an asshole, but Caro's book about him inspired a counter-movement that has made it impossible to get anything done (but if you undo those reforms you risk another power broker like Moses).
 
Last edited:

Gotham Gator

Senior Member
Donor
Feb 9, 2015
10,115
20,917
353
54
Bronxville, NY

Long article that uses the Penn Station project as an example of how it is nearly impossible to complete big public infrastructure projects in NYC (and much of the country). Though the focus is on public projects, much of the structural and procedural obstacles would apply to any big project in NYC, especially if public land or financing or anything is involved. It is definitely relevant to the NYCFC stadium, which requires political cooperation due to the publicly financed garages on site, and potential alterations to highway ramps and MTA train station.

If you lean left/progressive, don't be put off by the snippet. The author leans left himself, and is trying to figure out how to solve a problem so people will trust the government to do more stuff progressives would like. But he also doesn't really have a solution.

TLDR: Robert Moses was an asshole, but Caro's book about him inspired a counter-movement that has made it impossible to get anything done (but if you undo those reforms you risk another power broker like Moses).
The answer, of course, is balance - of which we are currently in short supply.

Other cities - especially ones in other countries - manage to get big things done easily and cheaply. If that outcome were even a small priority for NYC, we could make it happen, but it's not. There are tons of impediments to even the simplest of projects, for the reasons you mention.
 

Ulrich

Senior Member
Elite Donor
Donor
Seasoned Supporter
Nov 5, 2015
13,308
25,545
353

Long article that uses the Penn Station project as an example of how it is nearly impossible to complete big public infrastructure projects in NYC (and much of the country). Though the focus is on public projects, much of the structural and procedural obstacles would apply to any big project in NYC, especially if public land or financing or anything is involved. It is definitely relevant to the NYCFC stadium, which requires political cooperation due to the publicly financed garages on site, and potential alterations to highway ramps and MTA train station.

If you lean left/progressive, don't be put off by the snippet. The author leans left himself, and is trying to figure out how to solve a problem so people will trust the government to do more stuff progressives would like. But he also doesn't really have a solution.

TLDR: Robert Moses was an asshole, but Caro's book about him inspired a counter-movement that has made it impossible to get anything done (but if you undo those reforms you risk another power broker like Moses).
Point of Order:

Robert Moses was definitely a self-centered egotistical individual, definitely at times rubbing people the wrong way and being an asshole by ramming through initiatives, and he got some stuff very wrong with his master plan for the city (no access to the waterfront because of exterior highways is something the city is now successfully changing for the better). But he also did a ton of good for the city in making it a livable area with creature comforts that cut through the nastiness of an industrial concrete environment run amuck with trash and waste that comes with density. Our park systems and green spaces are his doing.
 

mgarbowski

Senior Member
Elite Donor
Donor
Seasoned Supporter
Jul 16, 2014
12,091
34,419
353
Queens, NY
mgarbowski.com
Point of Order:

Robert Moses was definitely a self-centered egotistical individual, definitely at times rubbing people the wrong way and being an asshole by ramming through initiatives, and he got some stuff very wrong with his master plan for the city (no access to the waterfront because of exterior highways is something the city is now successfully changing for the better). But he also did a ton of good for the city in making it a livable area with creature comforts that cut through the nastiness of an industrial concrete environment run amuck with trash and waste that comes with density. Our park systems and green spaces are his doing.
That's not inconsistent with the article, or my opinion.
 

Kjbert

Senior Member
Seasoned Supporter
Apr 24, 2014
10,175
15,259
303
34
Point of Order:

Robert Moses was definitely a self-centered egotistical individual, definitely at times rubbing people the wrong way and being an asshole by ramming through initiatives, and he got some stuff very wrong with his master plan for the city (no access to the waterfront because of exterior highways is something the city is now successfully changing for the better). But he also did a ton of good for the city in making it a livable area with creature comforts that cut through the nastiness of an industrial concrete environment run amuck with trash and waste that comes with density. Our park systems and green spaces are his doing.
Didn’t Moses singlehandedly put back race relations a century?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Victors87

Ulrich

Senior Member
Elite Donor
Donor
Seasoned Supporter
Nov 5, 2015
13,308
25,545
353
Didn’t Moses singlehandedly put back race relations a century?
That’s a pretty debatable accusation that has been partially if not mostly debunked. He was definitely racist, but many of his creations are flawed for reasons not necessarily being the racist.

The theory of his low-Bridge to restrict minorities going to Jones Beach was probably misplaced - it was built when NYc was 95% white AND when parkways didn’t allow commercial vehicles to maintain the tranquility of the drive, and since he didn’t like mass transit but understood the legislation banning trucks/buses could be changed he built the bridges so that it’d be prohibitive to change the parkway if the policy changed, so IDK.... or the monkey sculptures found in Harlem parks were also found in Riverside Park, a park adjacent to a very affluent area, so IDK..... or the assumption that the Harlem pools weren’t heated, compared to others, was also when Harlem was an Italian neighborhood, so IDK.

He created NYCHA housing, which has help countless less fortunate, and while the buildings are falling apart and in some cases a war zone , that’s on recent mismanagement, not the initiative to build them.

Again, the dude was seriously flawed and an asshole and I’m not condoning everything he did/didn’t do, but he’s not the universal boogie man your post posited.
 

Kenny

Junior Member
Elite Donor
Nov 30, 2014
415
783
93
51
That’s a pretty debatable accusation that has been partially if not mostly debunked. He was definitely racist, but many of his creations are flawed for reasons not necessarily being the racist.

The theory of his low-Bridge to restrict minorities going to Jones Beach was probably misplaced - it was built when NYc was 95% white AND when parkways didn’t allow commercial vehicles to maintain the tranquility of the drive, and since he didn’t like mass transit but understood the legislation banning trucks/buses could be changed he built the bridges so that it’d be prohibitive to change the parkway if the policy changed, so IDK.... or the monkey sculptures found in Harlem parks were also found in Riverside Park, a park adjacent to a very affluent area, so IDK..... or the assumption that the Harlem pools weren’t heated, compared to others, was also when Harlem was an Italian neighborhood, so IDK.

He created NYCHA housing, which has help countless less fortunate, and while the buildings are falling apart and in some cases a war zone , that’s on recent mismanagement, not the initiative to build them.

Again, the dude was seriously flawed and an asshole and I’m not condoning everything he did/didn’t do, but he’s not the universal boogie man your post posited.
OK so let's leave it as: he was definitely a racist, seriously flawed, and for sure an asshole.
 

Nmc

Newbie
Jan 11, 2019
10
6
3
54
That’s not the point I made. The point I made was how much of that cost is attributable to us running in the red and how much is attributable to circumventing FFP.
Why would MCFC have a need to circumvent FFP - they are operating comfortably within its limits these days? Assigning the cost of a few coaches and admin staff to CFG is irrelevant in the scheme of things.
 

LionNYC

Senior Member
Staff member
Elite Donor
Seasoned Supporter
Jan 2, 2015
15,562
27,129
303
New York, NY
Does anyone have the Vieira "There's no need to be upset" photo with his head in the galaxy? I need to send it to someone and can't find it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kjbert